The "Heatsoak" issue
Discussion
Is it really as bad as lots of people make out? Up untill last week my engine was bog standard except for a Faulks dump valve, now I have the Faulks IC as well. I drive in temps. that I would guess are on average 10 degrees C higher than yours every day, and I'm struggling to notice any loss of power. Maybe it's because I'm a crap driver with no mechanical sympathy whatsoever, but I don't think it's that. I am, however, going to be spending some money here soon...was thinking of a couple of layers of ThermoTec wrap around the IC box.
www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductList.asp?cls=MSPORT&grp=MP040&pgrp=M006&tlgrp=M006
So...is it a real problem? Or is it a case of looking for somthing to twiddle with?
Martin.
>> Edited by V6GTO on Tuesday 23 May 14:58
www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductList.asp?cls=MSPORT&grp=MP040&pgrp=M006&tlgrp=M006
So...is it a real problem? Or is it a case of looking for somthing to twiddle with?
Martin.
>> Edited by V6GTO on Tuesday 23 May 14:58
Martin - yes, heatsoak is a real issue especially on track when you are wringing out the power. The 'cure'for the heatsoaked-induced power loss is an upgrade to FP IC (or equivalent). If you're saying that you can't notice a power loss post IC upgrade, then the reason is that you have the cure already! If you're saying you didn't notice any difference before and after fitting the FP IC, then I would question your abilities to detect, well anything really. Most folk find the difference obvious, and I'm sure Paul C et al have plenty of data to this effect.
Any further efforts to cool the engine bay can only help - you probably you won't detect much more in terms of power gains (or retention to be more precise), but any further cooling will certainly help mechanical longevity; heat being the sworn enemy of most things mechanical!
Any further efforts to cool the engine bay can only help - you probably you won't detect much more in terms of power gains (or retention to be more precise), but any further cooling will certainly help mechanical longevity; heat being the sworn enemy of most things mechanical!
I remember the difference after fitting the Matt IC to the M400. I overtook a long line of cars and nearly laughed myself off the road at the end 'cos I'd only figured on overtaking about 4 cars and it turned in to about 8, such was the difference!!!!
>> Edited by ahaughton on Tuesday 23 May 16:13
>> Edited by ahaughton on Tuesday 23 May 16:13
This sounds like fishermans tales, l really don't understand how you've found all this extra power from using the car on UK ROADS by merely changing the intercooler for the FP!
The difference in engine output based on air inlet temp of 20oC against 40oC is so small you can't notice, only when used hard on track and inlet temps would have exceeded 40oC will you notice a difference.
The only way to verify the difference is a inlet temp gauge, stop watch,dyno.
Martin you are very modest about your driving, i'm sure you will notice the difference on track.
>> Edited by GTO400 on Tuesday 23 May 16:48
The difference in engine output based on air inlet temp of 20oC against 40oC is so small you can't notice, only when used hard on track and inlet temps would have exceeded 40oC will you notice a difference.
The only way to verify the difference is a inlet temp gauge, stop watch,dyno.
Martin you are very modest about your driving, i'm sure you will notice the difference on track.
>> Edited by GTO400 on Tuesday 23 May 16:48
GTO400 said:
Martin you are very modest about your driving, i'm sure you will notice the difference on track.
At the last track day at Rockingham (organised by Noble) I didn't get overtaken once so I think my driving is OK. It must be that I'm too busy to notice the drop in power, I thought the tyres turned to mush though...perhaps some of drop in performance was attributed to the wrong culprit.
Martin.
GTO400 said:
This sounds like fishermans tales, l really don't understand how you've found all this extra power ]
Its not extra power, its power that isn't squandered as the engine bay (and everything in it) heats up
GTO400 said:
The only way to verify the difference is a inlet temp gauge, stop watch,dyno.
which have all been done many times over by many different individuals or groups all in the UK, USA and SA. Its all extensively written about on this and the American forums. Beleive me it exists but equally reassuring is that the solutions are also well documented.
Regards
PauL C
>> Edited by paulcundy on Tuesday 23 May 17:17
Got my FP IC on order ready for Le Mans so I should have a full bag of beans to drag my ever increasing waiseline around. Just a question now of sorting some method to keep me cool as the aircon isn't that effective when its warm. Is there anything that can be done to cool down the car interior other than open the window ?
Paul the fishermans tales refers to the comment about about being able to overtake twice as many cars on the road by just changing the intercooler !
I'm not doubting the heatsoak problem exist merely stating that you really can't notice any improvment in performance by changing the intercooler when used on UK ROADS.
>> Edited by GTO400 on Tuesday 23 May 18:47
I'm not doubting the heatsoak problem exist merely stating that you really can't notice any improvment in performance by changing the intercooler when used on UK ROADS.
>> Edited by GTO400 on Tuesday 23 May 18:47
GTO400 said:
Paul the fisermans tales refers to the comment about about being able to overtake twice as many cars on the road by just changing the intercooler !
I'm not doubting the heatsoak problem exist merely stating that you really can't notice any improvment in performance by changing the intercooler when used on UK ROADS.
Oh yes I can see that now, oops. Engage brain before reply button!
Regards
Paul C
GTO400 said:BHP loss, from memory, is around 10bhp per 1C above 37 (??)
I'm not doubting the heatsoak problem exist merely stating that you really can't notice any improvment in performance by changing the intercooler when used on UK ROADS.
I have no idea if you pootle around, but around Surrey roads around me, I can easily get the car, during the summer to get to a stage where it starts to retard so that I could notice it.
The FP intercooler has helped in that it just never seems to drop off, even in the hottest day.
J
Justin
I'm running well in excess of M400 power, have a air inlet temp gauge in the car so l can see what the temp is rather than oh yes this works so much better! How do you know what your air inlet temp is ?
The fan only really makes a difference when the car is static or moving slowly and l would suggest the position of the fan on the FP inhibits airflow through the intercooler when moving at speed.
As for how fast l drive well maybe i'm a crap driver as well.
I'm running well in excess of M400 power, have a air inlet temp gauge in the car so l can see what the temp is rather than oh yes this works so much better! How do you know what your air inlet temp is ?
The fan only really makes a difference when the car is static or moving slowly and l would suggest the position of the fan on the FP inhibits airflow through the intercooler when moving at speed.
As for how fast l drive well maybe i'm a crap driver as well.
GTO400 said:
Justin
I'm running well in excess of M400 power, have a air inlet temp gauge in the car so l can see what the temp is rather than oh yes this works so much better! How do you know what your air inlet temp is ?
The fan only really makes a difference when the car is static or moving slowly and l would suggest the position of the fan on the FP inhibits airflow through the intercooler when moving at speed.
As for how fast l drive well maybe i'm a crap driver as well.
Ive been wanting an intake temp gauge. can you show a pic of what you got? where did you put the probe?
ahaughton said:
I remember the difference after fitting the Matt IC to the M400. I overtook a long line of cars and nearly laughed myself off the road at the end 'cos I'd only figured on overtaking about 4 cars and it turned in to about 8, such was the difference!!!!
Well, perhaps it wasn't that great a difference but there was certainly a noticable improvement - perhaps I managed to get the gear change right and keep the boost on longer and the IC managed to allow me to retain close to what the car should be producing if it wasn't losing due to heat?
>> Edited by ahaughton on Tuesday 23 May 18:54
GTO400 said:Quite simple, the faulks has a fan switch set at the inlet temp. With the window down, you can hear it come on below about 20mph. You can also hear it go off again after a few minutes when it's done it's job.
Justin
I'm running well in excess of M400 power, have a air inlet temp gauge in the car so l can see what the temp is rather than oh yes this works so much better! How do you know what your air inlet temp is ?
As I said, in summer, around Surrey roads, the inlet is getting over the temp set by the switch. Ergo, it's preventing retardation.
J
Heatsoak is when the intercooler gets too hot and the inlet charge temperatures get too high
the ecu retards the ignition timing to stop the engine from 'detting' - this is where the loss of power comes from
If anyone is interested I can sell you a special charge temp sensor that can be mounted on the dash to indicate the temps in the inlet manifold
the ecu retards the ignition timing to stop the engine from 'detting' - this is where the loss of power comes from
If anyone is interested I can sell you a special charge temp sensor that can be mounted on the dash to indicate the temps in the inlet manifold
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