M400 / M15 back to back test
Discussion
I’m not sure how to write this post. I feel the immediate need to eulogise that Lee Noble’s new car is in some higher plane of automotive transport, a place that could well be exclusively his for many many years.
However, perhaps it would be better to let you know what happened yesterday, Sunday 25th June 2006, a date that will now forever be imprinted on my memory of important dates.
On the Friday I received an email from one Lee Noble asking if I would like to take the new pre-production car of the M15 for a little run over the next few days. No restrictions, no secret, just a way of Lee getting a current Noble owner to give feedback on the car.
Well, in that inevitable way of asking if the Pope says mass, big black things squat in the woods and other such ways of expressing an uncertain yes, I emailed back and one phone call later I arranged to drive up to the factory on Sunday.
On the way up in the M400 on that Sunday morning (thank god for football and that funny thing called a world cup (although given the trophy doesn’t look like a cup, nor would you drink tea out of it, I can’t quite understand why they call it that) I started to write down the things that I didn’t like about the M400.
Now, anyone that knows me on here would think that surely heresy, as clearly there is nothing wrong with the M400?!? True, the M400 is an epic car, a car that redefines the definitions of handling, performance and price point. But, could you really put your hand on your heart and say that you would enjoy a trip to Barcelona in an M400? Sure, you could do it, but having done home to Le Mans in the M400, and home to Barcelona in the BMW X5, I can tell you that if it comes to wanting to do long journeys, the X5 would win out every time.
So, let’s start to be uber critical, and get a list together of the things that are annoying.
Let’s start with some annoying things, especially when you compare it to, say, the X5…..
The door mirrors, they shake more than 14 year old girls listening to Jail House Rock.
Your right foot goes numb after about an hour due to the angle your foot is at.
There isn’t enough thigh support from the seats.
The air-con struggles when there is sun pouring in the window to maintain an even temperature, so you get one warm side and one freezing side to your body.
That old adage of luggage space, yes there are 6 bags, yes you can fit a weeks worth of stuff in them, but it’s not really practical.
Nowhere to integrate a satnav system, so you have suction mounted kit attached to the window.
And what about that “NVH” area so often talked about by car manufacturers
Well, on the noise part, you could never call the cabin quiet in a Noble. After 80-90 you start to need to raise your voice, and unless you have speed sensitive stereo you end up deafening yourself if you come to a sudden stop from 80 on the motorway.
Vibrations? Yes, you get lots of them, you know that you have a serious engine in the back, and you do feel vibrations right into your feet from the engine.
Harshness? The 3R is far better in this area than the M400. On a motorway you are regularly communicated the fact that the M400 is track orientated. Expansion joints are a particular snotty nosed, smelly friend of the M400 owner.
Once you get into your stride, you can start to think of other things. The whole tendency of the M400 to want to follow white lines and that liquid tarmac stuff they pour into the joints in the road is up there in tramlining terms with my Ur-Quattro. Under hard breaking you can have some very interesting moments where you have to be 100% awake as you have to work out where the car wants to go, where the steering wheel wants to take your hands, and then apply the suitable correction.
Some would call that “feeling”, on a long journey; I call it a ‘pain’.
I suppose the accolades poured on the M400 are spot on, the M400 is the uber drivers car, it talks, communicates and pours it’s little heart out to you about what is going on the road. If you can drive an M400 fast, clearly you are a driver through and through, have a dick the size of a donkey, and can strut around knowing that you have defeated the trials and tribulations of the road surface.
Now, call me an old git, but on the trip up, as I was actively thinking about what the M15 was, what was it I didn’t like about the M400, and really thinking about why I was interested in the M14 in the first place, I realised that fun as though the M400 is, I had never ever considered getting rid of the X5.
Now, given my position in life, I no longer need to take flat pack furniture home from Ikea (delivered from House of Fraser is the way to go), I don’t have kids (so the rear seats are hardly ever used), but why hadn’t I ever got rid of it then?
It’s because if you have more than an hour or two journey, the X5 takes the natural place. Sure, you can hussle an X5 very nicely down a b-road, and sure you could drive for 4 hours in a Noble, but it’s all about horses for courses. The X5 positively drives itself to wherever you want to go, the M400 requires you to drive it along every inch of the road. But every day isn’t the same, so is it possible to get a car that could fulfil both of those requirements?
As I sat there on the M42 getting nearer to Barwell, I realised that really what I wanted was the performance of the M400, but the ability to let the car drive itself, positively waft along, when you just couldn’t be arsed.
It’s a place that the 911 is an obvious candidate for, although to get near the performance on track you need to go for one that is either in matt white with red or blue stickers, or resign yourself to just waving goodbye to a Noble. A DB-9? Sure it’s got the waftability, but could it ever keep up with even a Carr era 4 911? AMV8, noise, substance, but just not in the same league.
It’s funny that I didn’t finish purchasing the AMV8, ultimately it would have been a massive step backwards in performance from the M400 and so wouldn’t really have pressed the right buttons in terms of performance and refinement.
As I came towards Barwell I decided to just have 10 minutes play on the roads in and around Barwell to give me a fresh point of reference for how the M15 drove. I tootled around at 40mph in 4th, planted the loud pedal on an appropriate stretch, engraining how the car reacts, drives and feels in my brain.
As I pulled into the factory Lee welcomed me and we wandered around to the back. To my surprise both the matt black mule was sitting alongside the M15 pre-production car (called the mule and M15 from now on).
I looked at the changes that Lee had made to the car. Discussing these with them, there is still much work in progress on the details on the car. I got the impression that the launch of the M15 was driven more by the normal timelines of the yearly motor industry cycle than anything else.
Lee is a realistic perfectionist, he strives for perfection in everything he does, but also realises that if you go for perfection you will never achieve it. Consequently at some point on that path to perfection you have to stop and sell the labours of your work in order to ultimately fund the company. The M15, whilst now driveable and pretty much there, still has large opportunity to resolve the detail.
After more discussion, and close up examination of a M15 gearbox that was sitting on a bench, Lee asked the question, “mule or M15”? Oh, what choice! Hmm… Thinking about it, the logical seems to go mule and then M15, and the mule is an M15 design in an M12 body so will show what has changed mechanically without the distractions of the new body and interior.
Lee reverses the mule out of the factory, locks the factory up and then leaves the drivers door open for me.
Over the sill and sliding into the bucket seat, my first impressions are of one of space, and instantly more comfort. Sure the dash looks like a b-movie spaceship control panel, but that isn’t the point, the strange thing is this is the same as my M400 that I’ve just stepped out of, but immediately there feels more space and you feel more comfortable.
Pulling out of the factory there is an immediate sense of this is a totally different car. I expected some DNA, some reference point, something that would feel either through my hands, feet or bum that was the same. Nothing felt the same. Mentioning this to Lee he said that there really isn’t one thing that is the same between the M12 and the M15 (chassis, uprights, shocks, springs, steering), you name it, it’s been changed / completely replaced.
So, out onto the road and the first thing I notice is the steering has more “weight”, more feel, and is clearly more direct, more attached to your expectation of wheel position to direction of travel. The clutch is precise, but I didn’t have any of the issues that Scott had taking off in his drive of the M15.
Pulling out onto the main road out of Barwell you immediately notice the lack of noise, and the smoothness of the ride. Bumps are removed without any fuss, cats eyes are barely perceptible. Strange, very strange.
Turning right going North I start to stretch the car. A bit of traffic, then the cars in front pull off, and you realise that you’ve been pootling along at 40mph in 4th, just gently caressing the throttle when you needed a bit more go.
I comment how compliant the ride is. The steering is strange, you still feel connected, to use a Clarksonism, “by the force”, with the tyres, but there is none of the normal kickback and information overload about what the surface is underneath.
Even more impressive is that you no longer need to constantly correct where the car is going through the steering. Just point it at where you want to go, and lightly hold on, and the car ends up there regardless of what is going on underneath it.
It’s probably a bad analogy, and Lee looks slightly puzzled when I quote it, but I tell him that this is more relaxing, more refined steering than my X5. That is no understatement, and the X5 is at the top of the pile of refined long distance cars, but I assure you, the steering is that refined, it has an ability to remove all the noise but still leave the pure information coming through.
As the road clears, and cognisant that this is Lee’s mule, I just gently squeeze the throttle from fourth. Oh, ohhhhhhh, ohhhhhhhhh. Laughter is all I can utter, so gob smacked am I in the performance. This isn’t fast, no, the M400 is fast, this is stupidly fast, but no drama, no ‘turbo nutter’, just waves and waves of torque giving way smoothly and drama less to the sheer unadulterated power.
A few more miles, a few more squirts, and I’m hooked. This truly is a car of epic speed. I’m guessing a Veyron or F1 is ultimately quicker, and I’ve never had the pleasure of driving one, but this is no £500k+ car, this is a car that will be on sale for £75k all in and affordable by people with reasonably decent means.
Lee says “turn right, there are some bends down here”. Oh, boy, now the fun comes.
With Lee providing me excellent co-pilot directions (sharp tightening left, sweeping right, press on), and with me getting more confident with the car, we start to explore the car’s handling ability.
I’m no Clarkson, and don’t have his grasp of clichéd euphemisms, but the closest I can get to describing the mule’s cornering ability is Wurlitzer like. As I hit a right angle 90 degree corner at around 60mph, encouraged by Lee, the car doesn’t just turn through the corner, it positively feels as though there is a large pivot point at the apex that attached itself to the car, takes the car around in a perfect arc with nothing so mundane as tyres having to keep the car on the road, the car has no choice but to follow around.
The feeling on your body is similar to that one as you go around in the basket on a Wurlitzer. You know there are extreme forces at work, but you just get around the corner in the same way that you just go around.
As for how you steer through the corners, literally all you need to do is just turn the wheel to exactly where you believe it needs to go. Every single time I was right, the steering is so linear, so communicative, so precise, but yet there is no noise, no distractions coming through, no kick back from that hole in the middle, no wandering off on that shiny gap filler stuff, nothing.
The steering is like Dolby – remove the noise, increase the sensitivity, increase the clarity, and overall the effect is so much more effective.
It strikes me on the way back that we haven’t had the air-con on, we’ve had the driver’s window open, and it’s a sunny day. Despite being out on the roads for 20 minutes ‘pressing on’ and it being a lovely sunny day out there I’m not hot, nor bothered. This really is NOT an M12. In an M12 you’d be sweating like a pig by now, heat soaking through the centre tunnel due to the window being open. Instead just the cool breeze coming through naturally is enough. Stranger and stranger it gets, there really isn’t anything about this that replicates the M12……
I could go on for pages on the drive in the mule, but Lee was keen to now get me to drive the M15. Travelling back I parked the mule back into the factory, and Lee backed out the M15, jumped out, and left it running for me to get into it.
The M15 Drive
Getting into the M15 and closing the door I was struck by two things. One the “thunk” of the door. Solid, BMW like, it’s a satisfying noise and one that will serve the initial impression sale well. The second is the smell. It smells new and classy, a strong whiff of quality leather and absolutely no hint of GRP or glue.
What about the ambience and feeling? Well, now I’m sitting in it with the engine running at idle, it’s different to when I sat in it at the launch day. Being outside makes the whole thing more ‘bright’, it didn’t seem dull, nor oppressive. With the SatNav screen on showing us sitting at the factory, the console suddenly looks so ‘right’. I point out to Lee a small detail about the dials, and he makes a note about it and says he’ll look at it.
He also tells me there are two things I’ll defiantly spot that he’s not happy with (I actually spot 3 out of his list, but apparently that wasn’t all of them) and those are on his to-do list.
I immediately gained a feeling that Lee didn’t consider the “launch” anything more than a launch to gain customer feedback on. People have always portrayed Lee as strong minded and uncompromising with his own views, but here he is, many months before I get the actual production car, letting me drive his current position to gain feedback.
Question after question after question comes at me whilst I was driving it, many questions about my experience, what I found strange, what I would change, what I liked, what I disliked. You hear of Aston Martin doing ‘focus groups’, but this isn’t a focus group, it’s a 1-2-1 feedback session with an ‘anything is possible’ attitude.
That alone suggests to me Lee’s going about this the right way, but when I ease the car out of the factory, I know he’s already 98%+ of the way there.
No judder on this clutch either, leading to a conversation about why Scott had problems. It’s been bugging him since Scott’s drive, and at the next junction I get a small amount of judder – nothing serious, but it wasn’t there on the mule.
Resolute Lee says “right, that’ll be coming back out to see what the difference is against the mule”, and you get the feeling that he hasn’t had the issue, but realises he’s been driving the mule day in day out. We postulate if it was because Scott hasn’t driven Noble’s lately, and Lee says that next time he’ll get us to drive it again when he thinks he’s cracked it.
So, what’s the difference between the M15 and the mule? Two main things. One, it’s got a nice interior and two, it makes the most wonderful noise on lift off when you are pressing on. More in the latter in a minute, but what about that interior.
Well, much has been said about it. Some complained that the air-con switches were in the way. Well, they are like that in Lee’s Porsche, but thinking about it, you fiddle with the aircon when on the move, and most of the time you’ll be in gear 2, 4 or 6 (more about those gears later) and at that point you see that they are just in the right place.
More impressive is how chilly the aircon is, even though we didn’t have the fans going. Just the natural air flowing through makes you very cool, and with the new vents in the middle (positioned where you would normally have air-con controls), but clearly based on the test, the vents are so much better there rather than the controls). Why? Well, unlike the X5, you don’t get cold air blasting into your face.
I often drive around with just feet and screen set for air on the X5 because the middle vents are too big and too drafty. Lee’s thought about things and positioned the vents for comfort, and the control where they are best for when you want to use them most of the time. Function and practicality seems to be the mantra.
What else about the interior. To the people that didn’t like the look of the wheel, stuff the looks, the feel is absolutely quality. I’m sure Lee will look at making it look a bit “nicer”, but the tactness of the wheel is excellent. Interestingly, I never once took one hand off the wheel in the 30 minutes I drove it, such was the niceness of the feel and the sheer comfort of it.
The SatNav – just right. The dials – small yes, but just in the right looking position to enable you to judge correctly what’s going on.
Overall, whilst the M14 may have looked “nicer” in side, it wasn’t as functional. This is straight out of the BMW book, driver centric, but things still useable by the passenger (as Lee amply showed by showing me how everything worked whilst on the move!).
What else, well the seatbelts are a nice touch. Coming from the centre they feel strange, but they sit snugly in the correct place for maximum restraint, and coupled with the hugging seats (but not too snug, even more my, ahem, bulk) you felt secure and planted.
Interestingly it has M12 cues all over it, and I asked Lee why the change from the M14 dash and he said it was because a single console was so more practical and ergonomic that what the M14 was about, and whilst form is important, on an 800 mile trip, ergonomics will set the car apart as a true mile eater.
So, off down exactly the same route as the mule. The first thing is how quiet the car is. Apart from the odd stone hitting the underneath (to be fixed by rubber coating the bottom when things are finished) there is absolute quiet until you get above 60.
Conversations are held, even at speeds greater than 60 (…..) as if you were sitting in your front room.
Why is this. Well, firstly, there is less noise coming through. Secondly there is a lot less noise from the tyres, and thirdly, with the stunning torque curve of the engine, you never want to “cruise” at more than 2500-2800 rpm.
So, 30 mph, fourth gear is the ‘town’ gear of choice.
What about that engine? Well, the car only had 780 miles on it (compared to the 13,000+ of the mule) so it will be interesting to see how it loosens up, but I would imagine if the torque curve was plotted it would look like table mountain. In fact, I think you could probably shift table mountain with the amount of torque this car has.
Lee’s changes in the pursuit of refinement are a big part of this engine. Whilst, yes, it comes from the same line as the M400 engine, that is like saying that a panther is related to that spiteful cat that terrorises the neighbourhood. The M400 engine is clearly the latter, brash, confident and ultimately powerful, but the M15’s engine has followed a different DNA evolution.
Gone is any turbo nutterness. Gone is any harshness. That vibration I mentioned earlier about the M400, gone to a level that is just ‘right’ to let you know the car still has an engine, but not in any sense that is intrusive. To put it simply, the engine is black, sleek, slightly shy, but when it attacks, god help you. A panther is a rather good description I think.
Now, what happens when you press the loud pedal. Well, it all depends what gear you are in. I’ll discuss 2nd gear in a minute, but 4th is the ultimate gear.
First, let me just describe the acceleration the best I can. Imagine a M12 2.5 312bhp car. Now, that’s fast, very fast, but if you have it for 2 years you’ll get used to the speed and think it’s a bit “slow”.
Now get out of that car and jump straight into an M400. Go down the road, get to 50 mph, and floor it in 3rd. When you get to 100 and need to change up, reflect back on how ‘slow’ the 2.5l was and now how ‘fast’ the M400 is.
If I told you I am in a similar situation with the M400 in that it sometimes feels “slow” to me, but the resetting of expectations of what ‘fast’ is was the same as when I drove Moley’s M400 for first time having driven there in the M12, you’ll realise that it’s going to take a lot to make the M15 feel slow.
Acceleration on full throttle, in *fourth*, from 40 mph would demolish anything I dare say you could find.
3rd is scary. The speed that the car launches itself forward, but the control, poise and sheer lack of drama is worrying for my license. There is no drama up front, no concerns, no worries, all you hear is the engine note building, and after 4500 rpm you know what you have behind you.
What is lovely is the ffffuuuwwwwdddoooooo noise that comes on lift off when pressing on. It’s not there if you are just driving normally, but Lee said he understood people loved the sound and this has been tuned just right, it’s strange, unique, and just a lovely wonderful sound.
Of also massive note is the fluidity of the acceleration to deceleration phase when you lift off. Clearly designed to help stability of the car, there is no wwoooooaaaaaa eeekkkkk as you lift off, it’s just one constant, bi-cubicly smooth process allowing you to judge your progress through traffic with amazing precision.
2nd is just stupid. So scared was I about it I had to check with Lee that the car really would stick if I booted it in 2nd. A straight road appeared, so down to 20mph, into 2nd and off we go, full throttle.
[………]
I’ve sat here for 10 minutes trying to write what happened next. I can’t. I’m no journalist, my superlative dictionary is limited. I have never, ever, been in something so fast, a Formula Palmer Audi included.
I have never ever felt so in control, so unworried, with the speed flowing out like the special effect that the SS Enterprise does when it goes into warp speed. Not only does the world disappear behind you, but there is absolutely nothing needed at the front than a mere flex of the right foot and a gentle squeezing of the grip onto the steering wheel.
If you are pointing in the right direction at the start, you’ll not have moved your hands by the end.
I had the fortune to have a ‘quick’ nutty bike behind me after pulling out of a junction onto a straight. Now, I’ve been here in the M400. Super bikes can keep up in your 1st and 2nd, but by the time 3rd and 70mph comes along you’ve started to eek out a lead.
Without warning Lee, I saw the opportunity; short shifted into 2nd and then floored it again. God only knows how the bike would have disappeared if I’d used 1st, but suffice to say that by the end of 2nd it was all over for the bike. So beaten was he, that after I finished at around 70ish (…
he sheepishly stayed back about 400 yards.
What about the steering though – no good having a point to point if it doesn’t go around corners. Truly it is hard to describe the totally different feeling of the steering. Gone is the communication of all the detail of the surface. I am sure a racing driver is going to be disappointed as you don’t have to fight with the wheel to keep it straight. Whatever Lee has done he should do a deal to become the Dolby Labs of the steering world.
The X5 is great on motorways, but you always feel disconnected when you get onto a B-road. The M12 was fantastic, a grown up Elise, the car Lotus should have built, super sharp, super direct.
However, like most things, you always found yourself doing corrections as you went around corners, and if you braked hard up a hill with changes in surface the steering wheel becomes your nemesis in survival.
I discuss the brakes in a minute, but if I could describe the steering as true 1:1, namely that whatever you think; happens, then you should get it. It’s as if Lee’s got some sort of mad professor in there calculating slip angles, moments of turn, camber, castor and god only knows what between the wheel on the road and the steering wheel. Every billionth of a second said nutty professor looks as your hands, works out all the equations and moves the wheels where you expect them.
I could go on and on and on. I could offer you tea and cake, but still, after going on and on you wouldn’t get it until you drive it. Sutcliff was right, this car is a defining point in automotive history, and the steering is one massive part of that.
How the hell Lee’s managed to combine class leading cruising ability with the DNA of the M12 when you get to the twisty bit I don’t know, nor will I ever probably know. I do know that every major manufacturer will be ripping this front end apart to find out what the hell Lee has done because some of those suppose big guys out there are going to get the label of “Audi lifelessness” attached to them real soon now…
So, it goes, it turns, but does it stop? Yes, and boy its so much better.
The M400 is a great stopper. Ask anyone that has been on VMAX with me and you’ll know that it is like hitting a brick wall when you stick those anchors on. But, they are sharp, very sensitive, and if you are pootling you find them a bit wearing. Now, there is progression, firmness and it feels like you are part of the braking process. Modulation is simple and easy, but they aren’t over servo’d, nor are they too hard at the Elise S1 end of the spectrum.
Far easier to use, but very very effective. It’s all adding up together into one hell of a package.
All too soon we get to the end of the test route. “Fancy lunch” Lee says, to which that adage about popes and bears springs to mind again, so off we drive to the pub. Parking up I find myself looking back 5, probably 6 times as we walk the 20 yards to the door. The styling is new, exciting, and has some amazing angles. The package is complete, and the car will still look good in 5 years time. I think he’s judged it just right to appeal to the right kind of person. Small details will change, bits will be smoothed, other bits will be raised or lowered, but the DNA is there, Lee just needs the time to ensure the complex building process that makes the final shape has the time to evolve, and he’s given himself the opportunity to reflect and ponder those final details.
I won’t bore you with our pub conversation, suffice to say that spending an hour with Lee discussing his methodology and what is still to be done to the car, I get the feeling that the world, whilst they might not all like bits here and there, as a package it will redefine what you can get for never mind 75k, but this side of double that.
The Enzo isn’t pretty, the F1 has its foibles, the Veyron has it’s critics. Sure a DB9 is a classic, sure a Bentley has whaftability in spades, but if you have petrol flowing in your veins, and are in a position to find, or finance, £75k, you will have a car that one day you could go all the way to Barcelona, the next have a blat with your mates, and the third day muller anything this side of a Radical as Spa…..
Too soon it was time for us to go home, so back we went, with a slight detour, well, it would have been rude not to, and I shook Lee’s hand, honoured to be in the presence of one so talented, so single minded, so capable, and bid farewell. 4 hours I had spent with the two cars, and as I got into the M400, started my journey home, you just realised how far things have come on in the last few years. To think that I was enjoying the comfort more than my X5, and yet that very same car will eat alive my M400 on a track is unfathomable, unreal, and I’m bloody lucky to be at the head of the list to get one.
The M400 is an amazing car. It’s a driver’s car, it’s a car to stoke the emotions, but this M15 is in a different league. The mule is now Lee’s own personal car, the ultimate in stealth cars, the summation of what Lee wants in life. I’ll take a finished one, but you know, there is something rather cool about making a M12 body and interior that significant…….
So how do you sum it all up?
I’ve been thinking about that.
Performance : Epic, of The Ten Commandments level
Handling : Fluid, second nature, limpet grip, has squared the circle of impossibility
Refinement : BMW had better worry that I might not replace the X5….
Overall : 100% fits me, glove like, for what I want.
Is it worth 75k? Well, as soon as Lee makes it, £75k will be winging his way to him. Nothing, absolutely nothing will stop me buying this car, so epic, so amazing is it, and unless you need to carry flat pack furniture, it’ll be every car you need.
I really must stop writing now as I have work to do, but feel free to ask any questions about the test drive. I’ve eulogised about the M400 for many years, and the M12 before that, but now, I have a new spring in my step safe in the knowledge that, bar nothing I’ve ever driven, I’ve been just a little part of a large amount of motoring history being made.
Justin
However, perhaps it would be better to let you know what happened yesterday, Sunday 25th June 2006, a date that will now forever be imprinted on my memory of important dates.
On the Friday I received an email from one Lee Noble asking if I would like to take the new pre-production car of the M15 for a little run over the next few days. No restrictions, no secret, just a way of Lee getting a current Noble owner to give feedback on the car.
Well, in that inevitable way of asking if the Pope says mass, big black things squat in the woods and other such ways of expressing an uncertain yes, I emailed back and one phone call later I arranged to drive up to the factory on Sunday.
On the way up in the M400 on that Sunday morning (thank god for football and that funny thing called a world cup (although given the trophy doesn’t look like a cup, nor would you drink tea out of it, I can’t quite understand why they call it that) I started to write down the things that I didn’t like about the M400.
Now, anyone that knows me on here would think that surely heresy, as clearly there is nothing wrong with the M400?!? True, the M400 is an epic car, a car that redefines the definitions of handling, performance and price point. But, could you really put your hand on your heart and say that you would enjoy a trip to Barcelona in an M400? Sure, you could do it, but having done home to Le Mans in the M400, and home to Barcelona in the BMW X5, I can tell you that if it comes to wanting to do long journeys, the X5 would win out every time.
So, let’s start to be uber critical, and get a list together of the things that are annoying.
Let’s start with some annoying things, especially when you compare it to, say, the X5…..
The door mirrors, they shake more than 14 year old girls listening to Jail House Rock.
Your right foot goes numb after about an hour due to the angle your foot is at.
There isn’t enough thigh support from the seats.
The air-con struggles when there is sun pouring in the window to maintain an even temperature, so you get one warm side and one freezing side to your body.
That old adage of luggage space, yes there are 6 bags, yes you can fit a weeks worth of stuff in them, but it’s not really practical.
Nowhere to integrate a satnav system, so you have suction mounted kit attached to the window.
And what about that “NVH” area so often talked about by car manufacturers
Well, on the noise part, you could never call the cabin quiet in a Noble. After 80-90 you start to need to raise your voice, and unless you have speed sensitive stereo you end up deafening yourself if you come to a sudden stop from 80 on the motorway.
Vibrations? Yes, you get lots of them, you know that you have a serious engine in the back, and you do feel vibrations right into your feet from the engine.
Harshness? The 3R is far better in this area than the M400. On a motorway you are regularly communicated the fact that the M400 is track orientated. Expansion joints are a particular snotty nosed, smelly friend of the M400 owner.
Once you get into your stride, you can start to think of other things. The whole tendency of the M400 to want to follow white lines and that liquid tarmac stuff they pour into the joints in the road is up there in tramlining terms with my Ur-Quattro. Under hard breaking you can have some very interesting moments where you have to be 100% awake as you have to work out where the car wants to go, where the steering wheel wants to take your hands, and then apply the suitable correction.
Some would call that “feeling”, on a long journey; I call it a ‘pain’.
I suppose the accolades poured on the M400 are spot on, the M400 is the uber drivers car, it talks, communicates and pours it’s little heart out to you about what is going on the road. If you can drive an M400 fast, clearly you are a driver through and through, have a dick the size of a donkey, and can strut around knowing that you have defeated the trials and tribulations of the road surface.
Now, call me an old git, but on the trip up, as I was actively thinking about what the M15 was, what was it I didn’t like about the M400, and really thinking about why I was interested in the M14 in the first place, I realised that fun as though the M400 is, I had never ever considered getting rid of the X5.
Now, given my position in life, I no longer need to take flat pack furniture home from Ikea (delivered from House of Fraser is the way to go), I don’t have kids (so the rear seats are hardly ever used), but why hadn’t I ever got rid of it then?
It’s because if you have more than an hour or two journey, the X5 takes the natural place. Sure, you can hussle an X5 very nicely down a b-road, and sure you could drive for 4 hours in a Noble, but it’s all about horses for courses. The X5 positively drives itself to wherever you want to go, the M400 requires you to drive it along every inch of the road. But every day isn’t the same, so is it possible to get a car that could fulfil both of those requirements?
As I sat there on the M42 getting nearer to Barwell, I realised that really what I wanted was the performance of the M400, but the ability to let the car drive itself, positively waft along, when you just couldn’t be arsed.
It’s a place that the 911 is an obvious candidate for, although to get near the performance on track you need to go for one that is either in matt white with red or blue stickers, or resign yourself to just waving goodbye to a Noble. A DB-9? Sure it’s got the waftability, but could it ever keep up with even a Carr era 4 911? AMV8, noise, substance, but just not in the same league.
It’s funny that I didn’t finish purchasing the AMV8, ultimately it would have been a massive step backwards in performance from the M400 and so wouldn’t really have pressed the right buttons in terms of performance and refinement.
As I came towards Barwell I decided to just have 10 minutes play on the roads in and around Barwell to give me a fresh point of reference for how the M15 drove. I tootled around at 40mph in 4th, planted the loud pedal on an appropriate stretch, engraining how the car reacts, drives and feels in my brain.
As I pulled into the factory Lee welcomed me and we wandered around to the back. To my surprise both the matt black mule was sitting alongside the M15 pre-production car (called the mule and M15 from now on).
I looked at the changes that Lee had made to the car. Discussing these with them, there is still much work in progress on the details on the car. I got the impression that the launch of the M15 was driven more by the normal timelines of the yearly motor industry cycle than anything else.
Lee is a realistic perfectionist, he strives for perfection in everything he does, but also realises that if you go for perfection you will never achieve it. Consequently at some point on that path to perfection you have to stop and sell the labours of your work in order to ultimately fund the company. The M15, whilst now driveable and pretty much there, still has large opportunity to resolve the detail.
After more discussion, and close up examination of a M15 gearbox that was sitting on a bench, Lee asked the question, “mule or M15”? Oh, what choice! Hmm… Thinking about it, the logical seems to go mule and then M15, and the mule is an M15 design in an M12 body so will show what has changed mechanically without the distractions of the new body and interior.
Lee reverses the mule out of the factory, locks the factory up and then leaves the drivers door open for me.
Over the sill and sliding into the bucket seat, my first impressions are of one of space, and instantly more comfort. Sure the dash looks like a b-movie spaceship control panel, but that isn’t the point, the strange thing is this is the same as my M400 that I’ve just stepped out of, but immediately there feels more space and you feel more comfortable.
Pulling out of the factory there is an immediate sense of this is a totally different car. I expected some DNA, some reference point, something that would feel either through my hands, feet or bum that was the same. Nothing felt the same. Mentioning this to Lee he said that there really isn’t one thing that is the same between the M12 and the M15 (chassis, uprights, shocks, springs, steering), you name it, it’s been changed / completely replaced.
So, out onto the road and the first thing I notice is the steering has more “weight”, more feel, and is clearly more direct, more attached to your expectation of wheel position to direction of travel. The clutch is precise, but I didn’t have any of the issues that Scott had taking off in his drive of the M15.
Pulling out onto the main road out of Barwell you immediately notice the lack of noise, and the smoothness of the ride. Bumps are removed without any fuss, cats eyes are barely perceptible. Strange, very strange.
Turning right going North I start to stretch the car. A bit of traffic, then the cars in front pull off, and you realise that you’ve been pootling along at 40mph in 4th, just gently caressing the throttle when you needed a bit more go.
I comment how compliant the ride is. The steering is strange, you still feel connected, to use a Clarksonism, “by the force”, with the tyres, but there is none of the normal kickback and information overload about what the surface is underneath.
Even more impressive is that you no longer need to constantly correct where the car is going through the steering. Just point it at where you want to go, and lightly hold on, and the car ends up there regardless of what is going on underneath it.
It’s probably a bad analogy, and Lee looks slightly puzzled when I quote it, but I tell him that this is more relaxing, more refined steering than my X5. That is no understatement, and the X5 is at the top of the pile of refined long distance cars, but I assure you, the steering is that refined, it has an ability to remove all the noise but still leave the pure information coming through.
As the road clears, and cognisant that this is Lee’s mule, I just gently squeeze the throttle from fourth. Oh, ohhhhhhh, ohhhhhhhhh. Laughter is all I can utter, so gob smacked am I in the performance. This isn’t fast, no, the M400 is fast, this is stupidly fast, but no drama, no ‘turbo nutter’, just waves and waves of torque giving way smoothly and drama less to the sheer unadulterated power.
A few more miles, a few more squirts, and I’m hooked. This truly is a car of epic speed. I’m guessing a Veyron or F1 is ultimately quicker, and I’ve never had the pleasure of driving one, but this is no £500k+ car, this is a car that will be on sale for £75k all in and affordable by people with reasonably decent means.
Lee says “turn right, there are some bends down here”. Oh, boy, now the fun comes.
With Lee providing me excellent co-pilot directions (sharp tightening left, sweeping right, press on), and with me getting more confident with the car, we start to explore the car’s handling ability.
I’m no Clarkson, and don’t have his grasp of clichéd euphemisms, but the closest I can get to describing the mule’s cornering ability is Wurlitzer like. As I hit a right angle 90 degree corner at around 60mph, encouraged by Lee, the car doesn’t just turn through the corner, it positively feels as though there is a large pivot point at the apex that attached itself to the car, takes the car around in a perfect arc with nothing so mundane as tyres having to keep the car on the road, the car has no choice but to follow around.
The feeling on your body is similar to that one as you go around in the basket on a Wurlitzer. You know there are extreme forces at work, but you just get around the corner in the same way that you just go around.
As for how you steer through the corners, literally all you need to do is just turn the wheel to exactly where you believe it needs to go. Every single time I was right, the steering is so linear, so communicative, so precise, but yet there is no noise, no distractions coming through, no kick back from that hole in the middle, no wandering off on that shiny gap filler stuff, nothing.
The steering is like Dolby – remove the noise, increase the sensitivity, increase the clarity, and overall the effect is so much more effective.
It strikes me on the way back that we haven’t had the air-con on, we’ve had the driver’s window open, and it’s a sunny day. Despite being out on the roads for 20 minutes ‘pressing on’ and it being a lovely sunny day out there I’m not hot, nor bothered. This really is NOT an M12. In an M12 you’d be sweating like a pig by now, heat soaking through the centre tunnel due to the window being open. Instead just the cool breeze coming through naturally is enough. Stranger and stranger it gets, there really isn’t anything about this that replicates the M12……
I could go on for pages on the drive in the mule, but Lee was keen to now get me to drive the M15. Travelling back I parked the mule back into the factory, and Lee backed out the M15, jumped out, and left it running for me to get into it.
The M15 Drive
Getting into the M15 and closing the door I was struck by two things. One the “thunk” of the door. Solid, BMW like, it’s a satisfying noise and one that will serve the initial impression sale well. The second is the smell. It smells new and classy, a strong whiff of quality leather and absolutely no hint of GRP or glue.
What about the ambience and feeling? Well, now I’m sitting in it with the engine running at idle, it’s different to when I sat in it at the launch day. Being outside makes the whole thing more ‘bright’, it didn’t seem dull, nor oppressive. With the SatNav screen on showing us sitting at the factory, the console suddenly looks so ‘right’. I point out to Lee a small detail about the dials, and he makes a note about it and says he’ll look at it.
He also tells me there are two things I’ll defiantly spot that he’s not happy with (I actually spot 3 out of his list, but apparently that wasn’t all of them) and those are on his to-do list.
I immediately gained a feeling that Lee didn’t consider the “launch” anything more than a launch to gain customer feedback on. People have always portrayed Lee as strong minded and uncompromising with his own views, but here he is, many months before I get the actual production car, letting me drive his current position to gain feedback.
Question after question after question comes at me whilst I was driving it, many questions about my experience, what I found strange, what I would change, what I liked, what I disliked. You hear of Aston Martin doing ‘focus groups’, but this isn’t a focus group, it’s a 1-2-1 feedback session with an ‘anything is possible’ attitude.
That alone suggests to me Lee’s going about this the right way, but when I ease the car out of the factory, I know he’s already 98%+ of the way there.
No judder on this clutch either, leading to a conversation about why Scott had problems. It’s been bugging him since Scott’s drive, and at the next junction I get a small amount of judder – nothing serious, but it wasn’t there on the mule.
Resolute Lee says “right, that’ll be coming back out to see what the difference is against the mule”, and you get the feeling that he hasn’t had the issue, but realises he’s been driving the mule day in day out. We postulate if it was because Scott hasn’t driven Noble’s lately, and Lee says that next time he’ll get us to drive it again when he thinks he’s cracked it.
So, what’s the difference between the M15 and the mule? Two main things. One, it’s got a nice interior and two, it makes the most wonderful noise on lift off when you are pressing on. More in the latter in a minute, but what about that interior.
Well, much has been said about it. Some complained that the air-con switches were in the way. Well, they are like that in Lee’s Porsche, but thinking about it, you fiddle with the aircon when on the move, and most of the time you’ll be in gear 2, 4 or 6 (more about those gears later) and at that point you see that they are just in the right place.
More impressive is how chilly the aircon is, even though we didn’t have the fans going. Just the natural air flowing through makes you very cool, and with the new vents in the middle (positioned where you would normally have air-con controls), but clearly based on the test, the vents are so much better there rather than the controls). Why? Well, unlike the X5, you don’t get cold air blasting into your face.
I often drive around with just feet and screen set for air on the X5 because the middle vents are too big and too drafty. Lee’s thought about things and positioned the vents for comfort, and the control where they are best for when you want to use them most of the time. Function and practicality seems to be the mantra.
What else about the interior. To the people that didn’t like the look of the wheel, stuff the looks, the feel is absolutely quality. I’m sure Lee will look at making it look a bit “nicer”, but the tactness of the wheel is excellent. Interestingly, I never once took one hand off the wheel in the 30 minutes I drove it, such was the niceness of the feel and the sheer comfort of it.
The SatNav – just right. The dials – small yes, but just in the right looking position to enable you to judge correctly what’s going on.
Overall, whilst the M14 may have looked “nicer” in side, it wasn’t as functional. This is straight out of the BMW book, driver centric, but things still useable by the passenger (as Lee amply showed by showing me how everything worked whilst on the move!).
What else, well the seatbelts are a nice touch. Coming from the centre they feel strange, but they sit snugly in the correct place for maximum restraint, and coupled with the hugging seats (but not too snug, even more my, ahem, bulk) you felt secure and planted.
Interestingly it has M12 cues all over it, and I asked Lee why the change from the M14 dash and he said it was because a single console was so more practical and ergonomic that what the M14 was about, and whilst form is important, on an 800 mile trip, ergonomics will set the car apart as a true mile eater.
So, off down exactly the same route as the mule. The first thing is how quiet the car is. Apart from the odd stone hitting the underneath (to be fixed by rubber coating the bottom when things are finished) there is absolute quiet until you get above 60.
Conversations are held, even at speeds greater than 60 (…..) as if you were sitting in your front room.
Why is this. Well, firstly, there is less noise coming through. Secondly there is a lot less noise from the tyres, and thirdly, with the stunning torque curve of the engine, you never want to “cruise” at more than 2500-2800 rpm.
So, 30 mph, fourth gear is the ‘town’ gear of choice.
What about that engine? Well, the car only had 780 miles on it (compared to the 13,000+ of the mule) so it will be interesting to see how it loosens up, but I would imagine if the torque curve was plotted it would look like table mountain. In fact, I think you could probably shift table mountain with the amount of torque this car has.
Lee’s changes in the pursuit of refinement are a big part of this engine. Whilst, yes, it comes from the same line as the M400 engine, that is like saying that a panther is related to that spiteful cat that terrorises the neighbourhood. The M400 engine is clearly the latter, brash, confident and ultimately powerful, but the M15’s engine has followed a different DNA evolution.
Gone is any turbo nutterness. Gone is any harshness. That vibration I mentioned earlier about the M400, gone to a level that is just ‘right’ to let you know the car still has an engine, but not in any sense that is intrusive. To put it simply, the engine is black, sleek, slightly shy, but when it attacks, god help you. A panther is a rather good description I think.
Now, what happens when you press the loud pedal. Well, it all depends what gear you are in. I’ll discuss 2nd gear in a minute, but 4th is the ultimate gear.
First, let me just describe the acceleration the best I can. Imagine a M12 2.5 312bhp car. Now, that’s fast, very fast, but if you have it for 2 years you’ll get used to the speed and think it’s a bit “slow”.
Now get out of that car and jump straight into an M400. Go down the road, get to 50 mph, and floor it in 3rd. When you get to 100 and need to change up, reflect back on how ‘slow’ the 2.5l was and now how ‘fast’ the M400 is.
If I told you I am in a similar situation with the M400 in that it sometimes feels “slow” to me, but the resetting of expectations of what ‘fast’ is was the same as when I drove Moley’s M400 for first time having driven there in the M12, you’ll realise that it’s going to take a lot to make the M15 feel slow.
Acceleration on full throttle, in *fourth*, from 40 mph would demolish anything I dare say you could find.
3rd is scary. The speed that the car launches itself forward, but the control, poise and sheer lack of drama is worrying for my license. There is no drama up front, no concerns, no worries, all you hear is the engine note building, and after 4500 rpm you know what you have behind you.
What is lovely is the ffffuuuwwwwdddoooooo noise that comes on lift off when pressing on. It’s not there if you are just driving normally, but Lee said he understood people loved the sound and this has been tuned just right, it’s strange, unique, and just a lovely wonderful sound.
Of also massive note is the fluidity of the acceleration to deceleration phase when you lift off. Clearly designed to help stability of the car, there is no wwoooooaaaaaa eeekkkkk as you lift off, it’s just one constant, bi-cubicly smooth process allowing you to judge your progress through traffic with amazing precision.
2nd is just stupid. So scared was I about it I had to check with Lee that the car really would stick if I booted it in 2nd. A straight road appeared, so down to 20mph, into 2nd and off we go, full throttle.
[………]
I’ve sat here for 10 minutes trying to write what happened next. I can’t. I’m no journalist, my superlative dictionary is limited. I have never, ever, been in something so fast, a Formula Palmer Audi included.
I have never ever felt so in control, so unworried, with the speed flowing out like the special effect that the SS Enterprise does when it goes into warp speed. Not only does the world disappear behind you, but there is absolutely nothing needed at the front than a mere flex of the right foot and a gentle squeezing of the grip onto the steering wheel.
If you are pointing in the right direction at the start, you’ll not have moved your hands by the end.
I had the fortune to have a ‘quick’ nutty bike behind me after pulling out of a junction onto a straight. Now, I’ve been here in the M400. Super bikes can keep up in your 1st and 2nd, but by the time 3rd and 70mph comes along you’ve started to eek out a lead.
Without warning Lee, I saw the opportunity; short shifted into 2nd and then floored it again. God only knows how the bike would have disappeared if I’d used 1st, but suffice to say that by the end of 2nd it was all over for the bike. So beaten was he, that after I finished at around 70ish (…
he sheepishly stayed back about 400 yards. What about the steering though – no good having a point to point if it doesn’t go around corners. Truly it is hard to describe the totally different feeling of the steering. Gone is the communication of all the detail of the surface. I am sure a racing driver is going to be disappointed as you don’t have to fight with the wheel to keep it straight. Whatever Lee has done he should do a deal to become the Dolby Labs of the steering world.
The X5 is great on motorways, but you always feel disconnected when you get onto a B-road. The M12 was fantastic, a grown up Elise, the car Lotus should have built, super sharp, super direct.
However, like most things, you always found yourself doing corrections as you went around corners, and if you braked hard up a hill with changes in surface the steering wheel becomes your nemesis in survival.
I discuss the brakes in a minute, but if I could describe the steering as true 1:1, namely that whatever you think; happens, then you should get it. It’s as if Lee’s got some sort of mad professor in there calculating slip angles, moments of turn, camber, castor and god only knows what between the wheel on the road and the steering wheel. Every billionth of a second said nutty professor looks as your hands, works out all the equations and moves the wheels where you expect them.
I could go on and on and on. I could offer you tea and cake, but still, after going on and on you wouldn’t get it until you drive it. Sutcliff was right, this car is a defining point in automotive history, and the steering is one massive part of that.
How the hell Lee’s managed to combine class leading cruising ability with the DNA of the M12 when you get to the twisty bit I don’t know, nor will I ever probably know. I do know that every major manufacturer will be ripping this front end apart to find out what the hell Lee has done because some of those suppose big guys out there are going to get the label of “Audi lifelessness” attached to them real soon now…
So, it goes, it turns, but does it stop? Yes, and boy its so much better.
The M400 is a great stopper. Ask anyone that has been on VMAX with me and you’ll know that it is like hitting a brick wall when you stick those anchors on. But, they are sharp, very sensitive, and if you are pootling you find them a bit wearing. Now, there is progression, firmness and it feels like you are part of the braking process. Modulation is simple and easy, but they aren’t over servo’d, nor are they too hard at the Elise S1 end of the spectrum.
Far easier to use, but very very effective. It’s all adding up together into one hell of a package.
All too soon we get to the end of the test route. “Fancy lunch” Lee says, to which that adage about popes and bears springs to mind again, so off we drive to the pub. Parking up I find myself looking back 5, probably 6 times as we walk the 20 yards to the door. The styling is new, exciting, and has some amazing angles. The package is complete, and the car will still look good in 5 years time. I think he’s judged it just right to appeal to the right kind of person. Small details will change, bits will be smoothed, other bits will be raised or lowered, but the DNA is there, Lee just needs the time to ensure the complex building process that makes the final shape has the time to evolve, and he’s given himself the opportunity to reflect and ponder those final details.
I won’t bore you with our pub conversation, suffice to say that spending an hour with Lee discussing his methodology and what is still to be done to the car, I get the feeling that the world, whilst they might not all like bits here and there, as a package it will redefine what you can get for never mind 75k, but this side of double that.
The Enzo isn’t pretty, the F1 has its foibles, the Veyron has it’s critics. Sure a DB9 is a classic, sure a Bentley has whaftability in spades, but if you have petrol flowing in your veins, and are in a position to find, or finance, £75k, you will have a car that one day you could go all the way to Barcelona, the next have a blat with your mates, and the third day muller anything this side of a Radical as Spa…..
Too soon it was time for us to go home, so back we went, with a slight detour, well, it would have been rude not to, and I shook Lee’s hand, honoured to be in the presence of one so talented, so single minded, so capable, and bid farewell. 4 hours I had spent with the two cars, and as I got into the M400, started my journey home, you just realised how far things have come on in the last few years. To think that I was enjoying the comfort more than my X5, and yet that very same car will eat alive my M400 on a track is unfathomable, unreal, and I’m bloody lucky to be at the head of the list to get one.
The M400 is an amazing car. It’s a driver’s car, it’s a car to stoke the emotions, but this M15 is in a different league. The mule is now Lee’s own personal car, the ultimate in stealth cars, the summation of what Lee wants in life. I’ll take a finished one, but you know, there is something rather cool about making a M12 body and interior that significant…….
So how do you sum it all up?
I’ve been thinking about that.
Performance : Epic, of The Ten Commandments level
Handling : Fluid, second nature, limpet grip, has squared the circle of impossibility
Refinement : BMW had better worry that I might not replace the X5….
Overall : 100% fits me, glove like, for what I want.
Is it worth 75k? Well, as soon as Lee makes it, £75k will be winging his way to him. Nothing, absolutely nothing will stop me buying this car, so epic, so amazing is it, and unless you need to carry flat pack furniture, it’ll be every car you need.
I really must stop writing now as I have work to do, but feel free to ask any questions about the test drive. I’ve eulogised about the M400 for many years, and the M12 before that, but now, I have a new spring in my step safe in the knowledge that, bar nothing I’ve ever driven, I’ve been just a little part of a large amount of motoring history being made.
Justin
mc101 said:
Its still not an attractive car in my view and irrespective of how good a drive it is - you still have to look at it every day. Bit like dating a super fit babe with a boat race that looks like a bulldog chewing a wasp ... it just isn't the full package.
People called the M12 ugly, yet many of us ended up with one of them...... Me, I really like the styling, can see it has far more longvity than the M14, and remember it still isn't finalised, more a work in progress.
J
P.S. Why would a super fit babe be in a boat race, I thought that was for fit young men from Oxbridge.....?
Edited by joust on Monday 26th June 17:55
GTWayne said:
Nearly as good as an Ultima then?
It beats the Ultima hands down on looks, practicality and road manners and as an overall package the two just don't bear comparison. The Ultima may beat it on pure performance but remember its doing it with almost double the HP; 700 vs 450.
Regards
PauL C
Have any performance figures been released on the cars - I doubt I will get to drive an M15 for a very long time 
At least I can compare them on paper this way
---------------------------------------------
Something I found interesting was the fact that the m15 mule was actually an M12 with the engine swapped around
so - can we do this to an M12 and will we be able to buy the gearbox ?
At least I can compare them on paper this way
---------------------------------------------
Something I found interesting was the fact that the m15 mule was actually an M12 with the engine swapped around
so - can we do this to an M12 and will we be able to buy the gearbox ?
Edited by gadgeroonie on Monday 26th June 18:59
Don't get your knickers in a twist ladies,just puting my cat(or should I say black panther)amongst the pidgeons.I know this has been a sensitive subject in the past and although I am pro Ultima,I must say the M15 looks mighty impressive and it's good to see first hand opinions/experiences on here.Remember,Lee is our hero too.
I am not going to read the above thread, in fact, I am no where near my laptop.
I am stood in a corner under a blanket wearing a balaclava
backwards so I can not see the screen and my fingers in my ears singing la le la de nah nah de nah. I am dictating this to my wife who is in turn typing as I speak my feelings.
You may all remember, if you go back a long way, that I came to this site as a Lotus 135r Sport owner. I came to the site for advice, my thought, to consider a Noble M12 GTO 3R.
Well, I did it, and boy was I pleased.
After only a few months of ownership, a certain person posted about the M400. I thought, no problem, I am more than happy with my beast.
The worm had been planted. :frown:
Within 8 months of ownership I surfaced from the factory with a brand new M400. Boy, what an experience it has been. I am so happy that I could burst, even now.
So, I refuse to read this thread, the author of this thread was also the author of the M400 thread.
He is evil
, he will get under your skin and eventually you will have no choice but to give in and, as I did, surface from the factory with a brand new M thingy whatever it’s called.
I refuse to be drawn in to his wicked web.
Repeat after me!
I am happy with my M400
I am happy with my M400
I am happy with my M400
I am happy with my M400
I am happy with my M400
I am happy with my M400
BE WARNED.
Now, I must take my pills and go to bed.
Every day I get better and better.
Got to go, men in white coats.
I am stood in a corner under a blanket wearing a balaclava
backwards so I can not see the screen and my fingers in my ears singing la le la de nah nah de nah. I am dictating this to my wife who is in turn typing as I speak my feelings. You may all remember, if you go back a long way, that I came to this site as a Lotus 135r Sport owner. I came to the site for advice, my thought, to consider a Noble M12 GTO 3R.
Well, I did it, and boy was I pleased.
After only a few months of ownership, a certain person posted about the M400. I thought, no problem, I am more than happy with my beast.
The worm had been planted. :frown:
Within 8 months of ownership I surfaced from the factory with a brand new M400. Boy, what an experience it has been. I am so happy that I could burst, even now.
So, I refuse to read this thread, the author of this thread was also the author of the M400 thread.
He is evil
, he will get under your skin and eventually you will have no choice but to give in and, as I did, surface from the factory with a brand new M thingy whatever it’s called. I refuse to be drawn in to his wicked web.
Repeat after me!
I am happy with my M400
I am happy with my M400
I am happy with my M400
I am happy with my M400
I am happy with my M400
I am happy with my M400
BE WARNED.
Now, I must take my pills and go to bed.
Every day I get better and better.
Got to go, men in white coats.
Justin,
I have to disagree with you here
Maybe the X5 is some super hero car but my choice for a really long drive is not my 4X4 (cracking car the Super charged Range Rover is and it is does everything for you, its not the M3 Convertable even though I don't know of a sexier looking car from the rear, especially when you are low down in the Noble! Its not even the fantastic CSL, the best sounding car bar a Stradale....No. None of the foregoing. Absolutely not.
My M12 GTO3R is easily the the most enjoyable car for a long drive. The longer the drive the more likely the 3R will be my choice. As to driving to Le Mans. I'd do it again tomorrow, but only in the 3R.
Secondly, I desperately hope that Sat Nav is an option. If the M15 has Sat Nav as standard I will be gutted. Ok the weight might be minimal. But I never use it. I had it for nearly 9 years in my old RRover and rarely used it. Please Lee have it as an option. Even take it out if one day I buy an M15. Just give us the choice. Sat Nav - uuuuggghhh!
Finally try limiting the length of your postings, I've just missed half of Switzerland v Ukraine!!
I have to disagree with you here
Maybe the X5 is some super hero car but my choice for a really long drive is not my 4X4 (cracking car the Super charged Range Rover is and it is does everything for you, its not the M3 Convertable even though I don't know of a sexier looking car from the rear, especially when you are low down in the Noble! Its not even the fantastic CSL, the best sounding car bar a Stradale....No. None of the foregoing. Absolutely not.
My M12 GTO3R is easily the the most enjoyable car for a long drive. The longer the drive the more likely the 3R will be my choice. As to driving to Le Mans. I'd do it again tomorrow, but only in the 3R.
Secondly, I desperately hope that Sat Nav is an option. If the M15 has Sat Nav as standard I will be gutted. Ok the weight might be minimal. But I never use it. I had it for nearly 9 years in my old RRover and rarely used it. Please Lee have it as an option. Even take it out if one day I buy an M15. Just give us the choice. Sat Nav - uuuuggghhh!
Finally
try limiting the length of your postings, I've just missed half of Switzerland v Ukraine!! Joust
Move over Clarkson! Great "review" (couldn't help but grin with you) the house purchase is on hold - I've just got to work up the courage to tell the missus...
I just can't believe the performance is as extreme as you say. Here's the question; Should I skip the M400 now and move straight to the M15 or is the step worth it?
Move over Clarkson! Great "review" (couldn't help but grin with you) the house purchase is on hold - I've just got to work up the courage to tell the missus...
I just can't believe the performance is as extreme as you say. Here's the question; Should I skip the M400 now and move straight to the M15 or is the step worth it?
w8cko said:
Joust
Move over Clarkson! Great "review" (couldn't help but grin with you) the house purchase is on hold - I've just got to work up the courage to tell the missus...
I just can't believe the performance is as extreme as you say. Here's the question; Should I skip the M400 now and move straight to the M15 or is the step worth it?
Move over Clarkson! Great "review" (couldn't help but grin with you) the house purchase is on hold - I've just got to work up the courage to tell the missus...
I just can't believe the performance is as extreme as you say. Here's the question; Should I skip the M400 now and move straight to the M15 or is the step worth it?
You can do a stunning amount to an M12 for the price difference.....
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