oil coolers etc

[slow ginn]

I'm keen to do something to my m400 to improve on track temps.

Firstly oil coolers,as we all know there is virtually no air flow through the cooler in its current position.Short of moveing it to the frpnt of the car how about fitting a setrab cooler with inbuilt fan? Has anyone done so and to what affect? Any other suggestions?

Intercoolers,everyone seems to think the standard Noble one no good.I'm thinking of fitting an FP intercooler but again i know some of you guys have Roush intercoolers.Whats the best way forward on this?

Any advise most welcome

Regards
Gaius

[paulcundy]

slow ginn said:

I'm keen to do something to my m400 to improve on track temps.

Firstly oil coolers,as we all know there is virtually no air flow through the cooler in its current position.Short of moveing it to the frpnt of the car how about fitting a setrab cooler with inbuilt fan? Has anyone done so and to what affect? Any other suggestions?

Intercoolers,everyone seems to think the standard Noble one no good.I'm thinking of fitting an FP intercooler but again i know some of you guys have Roush intercoolers.Whats the best way forward on this?

Any advise most welcome

Regards
Gaius

oil coolers - front is best but you can add a fan or reposition the standard M400 one in the side pod.

ICs - best way forward is to be patient and delay your decision til about october.

Regards
PauL C

[JLSELAN]

paulcundy said:

slow ginn said:

I'm keen to do something to my m400 to improve on track temps.

Firstly oil coolers,as we all know there is virtually no air flow through the cooler in its current position.Short of moveing it to the frpnt of the car how about fitting a setrab cooler with inbuilt fan? Has anyone done so and to what affect? Any other suggestions?

Intercoolers,everyone seems to think the standard Noble one no good.I'm thinking of fitting an FP intercooler but again i know some of you guys have Roush intercoolers.Whats the best way forward on this?

Any advise most welcome

Regards
Gaius

oil coolers - front is best but you can add a fan or reposition the standard M400 one in the side pod.

ICs - best way forward is to be patient and delay your decision til about october.

Regards
PauL C

We're all eyes and ears on both sides of the pond, Paul

[paulcundy]

JLSELAN said:

paulcundy said:

slow ginn said:

I'm keen to do something to my m400 to improve on track temps.

Firstly oil coolers,as we all know there is virtually no air flow through the cooler in its current position.Short of moveing it to the frpnt of the car how about fitting a setrab cooler with inbuilt fan? Has anyone done so and to what affect? Any other suggestions?

Intercoolers,everyone seems to think the standard Noble one no good.I'm thinking of fitting an FP intercooler but again i know some of you guys have Roush intercoolers.Whats the best way forward on this?

Any advise most welcome

Regards
Gaius

oil coolers - front is best but you can add a fan or reposition the standard M400 one in the side pod.

ICs - best way forward is to be patient and delay your decision til about october.

Regards
PauL C

We're all eyes and ears on both sides of the pond, Paul

Well actually this isn't me, its someone else who's work I've heard of. Expect news near the end of this month.
Regards
Paul C

[pbsaxman]

paulcundy said:

JLSELAN said:

paulcundy said:

slow ginn said:

I'm keen to do something to my m400 to improve on track temps.

Firstly oil coolers,as we all know there is virtually no air flow through the cooler in its current position.Short of moveing it to the frpnt of the car how about fitting a setrab cooler with inbuilt fan? Has anyone done so and to what affect? Any other suggestions?

Intercoolers,everyone seems to think the standard Noble one no good.I'm thinking of fitting an FP intercooler but again i know some of you guys have Roush intercoolers.Whats the best way forward on this?

Any advise most welcome

Regards
Gaius

oil coolers - front is best but you can add a fan or reposition the standard M400 one in the side pod.

ICs - best way forward is to be patient and delay your decision til about october.

Regards
PauL C

We're all eyes and ears on both sides of the pond, Paul

Well actually this isn't me, its someone else who's work I've heard of. Expect news near the end of this month.
Regards
Paul C

For once I'm glad my car didn't arrive in May cos I'd have done the IC by now

[ThatPhilBrettGuy]

The current IC situation seems to be this :-

Standard - It's built to a budget. It's better than not having one. Let's leave it at that.

Faulks - Good design and certainly makes a difference to the charge temperatures. Built in fan helps on low speed running (such as cooling down laps). Easy swap out from standard as size is similar.

Noblemods - Very similar to the Faulk's offering. Seems to be a similar core so fitting should be as easy as the Faulks. Touted as better performance than Faulks but as neither give solid figures it's difficult to judge.

Noblemods Race - Deeper core and two fans. No figures.

Charge Coolers - At least one charge cooler is in development. Possible better performance that air intercooler solutions, but obviously a much more complex system (pumps, pipes, rad at the front, heat exchangers in the back somewhere) and probably costly. Might free up the intercooler box for a small boot, but that take some clever fiberglassing. But your luggage will be nice and warm when you take it out! Not really DIY solution and it may be an issue with having another rad at the front of the car, compromising water cooling.

Other Intercoolers - There's another intercooler in development that Roush have and hand in. Early testing does look very encouraging but it's (as far as I know) targeted at the high power cars and quite a bit more expensive than the other IC's above.

This probably isn't a comprehensive list so if there any more out there I'd be interested.

[adrian w]

Anyone want to buy a Noble one £0.10 per kilo

[joust]

adrian w said:

Anyone want to buy a Noble one £0.10 per kilo

This one made me laugh

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NOBLE-M12-M400-

£200 starting price

This one is £15, although has £25 postage ()
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Noble-M12-GTO-O

Funny enough none of them ever sell

J

[ThatPhilBrettGuy]

joust said:

This one is £15, although has £25 postage ()
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Noble-M12-GTO-O

That's had a bid on it. I'm guessing that's a chap on here that upgraded to an FP version not long ago.

[V6GTO]

I'm saving mine for when I build a kit.

Martin.

[joust]

V6GTO said:

I'm saving mine for when I build a kit.
Martin.

Looks like what that e-bayer is that's bid on the £15 one - she's bought loads of mini bits as well recently...

J

[AMG Merc]

joust said:

V6GTO said:

I'm saving mine for when I build a kit.
Martin.

Looks like what that e-bayer is that's bid on the £15 one - she's bought loads of mini bits as well recently...

J

She/he/it bids on anything at all Noble - must be building one from scratch!

[paulcundy]

ThatPhilBrettGuy said:

Other Intercoolers - There's another intercooler in development that Roush have and hand in. Early testing does look very encouraging but it's (as far as I know) targeted at the high power cars and quite a bit more expensive than the other IC's above.

This probably isn't a comprehensive list so if there any more out there I'd be interested.

Just to say that in fact the FP one is the only one where figures have been released, they are on this site way back.

The Rousch one is the "other" one I'd heard about.

Regards
Paul C

[yellowshed]

All,

We indeed have been working on a high-volume high-efficiency low-pressure drop intercooler in conjunction ProAlloy. The data (which hope to have time to publish soon - damn pressures of work etc) indicates that not only does this intercooler cool better than the FP one but it also has a lower pressure drop for the air flowing through it. Thus more pressure arrives at the engine (and we know what even one extra pound of pressure does from the exhaust being more free-flowing !!).

You can contact Wayne at ProAlloy - I believe they are just under £1000 fitted.

The quality is fantastic, it really fills the space and now that the core has the volume and surface area to deal with the intake massflow, the airflow is sufficient to cool turbo in temps of 140+C to just over 45C in a 25C ambient. The FP unit managed outlet temps of just under 70C in a 33C ambient. Allow a 1:1 delta for the ambient and you still get the ProAlloy one more than 15C cooler - all on the same car at full boost! Heat soak has not been an issue on the car we've been testing with. Again, data to follow, hopefully.

YellowShed

[paulcundy]

yellowshed said:

All,

We indeed have been working on a high-volume high-efficiency low-pressure drop intercooler in conjunction ProAlloy. The data (which hope to have time to publish soon - damn pressures of work etc) indicates that not only does this intercooler cool better than the FP one but it also has a lower pressure drop for the air flowing through it. Thus more pressure arrives at the engine (and we know what even one extra pound of pressure does from the exhaust being more free-flowing !!).

You can contact Wayne at ProAlloy - I believe they are just under £1000 fitted.

The quality is fantastic, it really fills the space and now that the core has the volume and surface area to deal with the intake massflow, the airflow is sufficient to cool turbo in temps of 140+C to just over 45C in a 25C ambient. The FP unit managed outlet temps of just under 70C in a 33C ambient. Allow a 1:1 delta for the ambient and you still get the ProAlloy one more than 15C cooler - all on the same car at full boost! Heat soak has not been an issue on the car we've been testing with. Again, data to follow, hopefully.

YellowShed

Dear Trevor,
Apologies for outing you but this is very good news. Well done.
Regards
Paul C

[gadgeroonie]

I got hold of this one several years ago - it was originally from a F2 racing car !!

I reckon it just might fit !! (with a few mods)

the core is 130 mm deep !!!!!!!!!!

Edited by gadgeroonie on Tuesday 5th September 11:10

[m12gto3r]

Not sure about charge cooling on an M12. My previous car was a Celica GT4 which was fitted with a charge cooler as standard. Tests proved that it was good for over 400bhp. However,all the tuners and the Toyota rally team replaced it with a front mounted intercooler. Apparently the pump, resovoir, piping and additional fluid added up to over 50kgs (or was that the air conditioning + pump).Of course the pipe work was short for the Celica because it is front engined, not the case for the M12.

Some one mentioned that the air flow for the normal radiator may be disturbed. On the GT4 the IC was simply placed in front on the rad without any bad effects. Its quite a bit smaller too.

On the plus side the Celica never ever ever.... suffered from heat soak at all. Even in stop go heavy traffic in the summer whilst driving through a volcano on the sun.

There will be plenty of these charge coolers about as, like I said, all the big boys replace them.

[twerlie]

I noticed the other day that i have a small OIL cooler just infront and off to the left of the radiator. IT's about 3 inched high by about 12 inches wide! Is this standard on an M12?

[gizard]

twerlie said:

I noticed the other day that i have a small OIL cooler just infront and off to the left of the radiator. IT's about 3 inched high by about 12 inches wide! Is this standard on an M12?

That's the aircon rad I think.

[alex s]

ThatPhilBrettGuy said:

twerlie said:

I noticed the other day that i have a small OIL cooler just infront and off to the left of the radiator. IT's about 3 inched high by about 12 inches wide! Is this standard on an M12?

I think that the powersteering one.

Yep, phil is correct.