Lap Times GT03R vs GT3
Discussion
Mr Noble said:
I can usually shake off DanH round Bedford in his GT3 RS.
[runforcover]
[runforcover]
I won't even dignify that with a response Mr 'it was my inlap' Noble
I forgot to reinflate my tyres before leaving Bedford the other day. I've completely shagged the rears. Suspect they were dead anyway, but they are definitely dead now.
Edited by DanH on Friday 13th April 19:18
Lance Robinson said:
Come on chaps... what do the stop watches say??
The M400 is in the same ballpark but drives and handles very differently to a GT3. Very much down to the driver and there aren't any official noble ring times etc to compare. Why are you asking?
Edited by DanH on Friday 13th April 19:52
Wasn't there an Evo Track Car of the Year article at some point in Evo that had both a Noble (can't remember which one) and a GT3 RS (I think), as well as a bunch of other cars. And they timed them round Bedford Autodrome. I can't remember whether the same driver drove both of them, or what the lap time was, butI think the Noble was a good several seconds in front.
Lance,
I drove the GT3 back to back against the car I ended up buying (M400) and I can catergorically tell you that the M400 is much, much quicker than the GT3 can"t imagine the GT3 will beat a GT03 either to be honest.
We breifly met in jarama at the v de v meeting a few weeks back when Tony Holditch introduced us. I was in the garage next door to you and was driving the no.38 Ligier.
Are you thinking of joining the nobility then ?
I drove the GT3 back to back against the car I ended up buying (M400) and I can catergorically tell you that the M400 is much, much quicker than the GT3 can"t imagine the GT3 will beat a GT03 either to be honest.
We breifly met in jarama at the v de v meeting a few weeks back when Tony Holditch introduced us. I was in the garage next door to you and was driving the no.38 Ligier.
Are you thinking of joining the nobility then ?
mikey_p said:
Wasn't there an Evo Track Car of the Year article at some point in Evo that had both a Noble (can't remember which one) and a GT3 RS (I think), as well as a bunch of other cars. And they timed them round Bedford Autodrome. I can't remember whether the same driver drove both of them, or what the lap time was, butI think the Noble was a good several seconds in front.
I honestly don't recall the article, but Evo* lap times aren't particularly authoritative. Anyway I guess the original question was about the GT03R and if one thinks the topgear times are any more authoritative (at least done by a racing driver, but one under immense time pressure who may not even know how to fully exploit a certain type of car (particularly relevant to driving a Porsche as nothing else is like them)) then the GT3 RS was faster than the GT03 by a big margin. Of course the RS was on slightly stickier tyres (but not nearly as sticky as the m400s tyres) and thus this pointless debate continues.
Which is pretty much why I said they were in the same ballpark - because that's been my experience on track. I'm sure these tuned up m400s some now have will be considerably quicker though and its cheaper+easier to tune forced induction. Of course the reason I sold my noble was I wanted a more robust car and putting 500+bhp into one doesn't exactly help on that front!
Would be good if Noble did some ring laps. That would shut people up a bit more
* checked the mag and no lap time for a noble in their bit at the end.
Edited by DanH on Friday 13th April 22:17
tonyf said:
I drove the GT3 back to back against the car I ended up buying (M400) and I can catergorically tell you that the M400 is much, much quicker than the GT3 can"t imagine the GT3 will beat a GT03 either to be honest.
That simply hasn't been my experience. Above 100 the noble (lack of) aerodynamics starts to count against it too.
I'm also certain it isn't slower than my GT03 was although FI torque does always give a more impressive shove in the back.
Perhaps if a few more people raced nobles we'd have some real data?
Edited by DanH on Friday 13th April 20:40
mikey_p said:
Wasn't there an Evo Track Car of the Year article at some point in Evo that had both a Noble (can't remember which one) and a GT3 RS (I think), as well as a bunch of other cars. And they timed them round Bedford Autodrome. I can't remember whether the same driver drove both of them, or what the lap time was, butI think the Noble was a good several seconds in front.
It was rockingham IIRC on the national "infield" circuit, and IIARC the noble was crossing the start/finish line after 1 lap with the nearest car still coming around the final hairpin... J
The reason I ask is because I am considering buying a used one of either and track performance is important.
They are clearly both good track cars. My impression is that the GT3 will last longer and wear the miles well, being therefor the better option for reasonable road mileage. I have to say though that the Noble just seems to have a bit more appeal. Perhaps I should use the change to buy a 2nd car for daily use... it is a shame to have to do this though and to be honest it should I really have to?
I notice that nobody has yet come up with a lap time!
They are clearly both good track cars. My impression is that the GT3 will last longer and wear the miles well, being therefor the better option for reasonable road mileage. I have to say though that the Noble just seems to have a bit more appeal. Perhaps I should use the change to buy a 2nd car for daily use... it is a shame to have to do this though and to be honest it should I really have to?
I notice that nobody has yet come up with a lap time!
joust said:
mikey_p said:
Wasn't there an Evo Track Car of the Year article at some point in Evo that had both a Noble (can't remember which one) and a GT3 RS (I think), as well as a bunch of other cars. And they timed them round Bedford Autodrome. I can't remember whether the same driver drove both of them, or what the lap time was, butI think the Noble was a good several seconds in front.
It was rockingham IIRC on the national "infield" circuit, and IIARC the noble was crossing the start/finish line after 1 lap with the nearest car still coming around the final hairpin... J
Yep. Thats exactly the one I was thinking of, although I didn't realise it was Rockingham. I think the car on the hairpin was the GT3 RS. RobP, do you still have that Evo?
In my own experience (and this depends on the drivers of the GT3 RS of course) in an M12 GTO 3R a GT3 wouldn't have a problem getting away. In an M400 a GT3 would have a problem getting past. This is based on a sunny, dry day and me having a "good" day. In the wet i'd keep my indicator flashing waiting for the GT3 to come back round again.
Lance Robinson said:
The reason I ask is because I am considering buying a used one of either and track performance is important.
They are clearly both good track cars. My impression is that the GT3 will last longer and wear the miles well, being therefor the better option for reasonable road mileage. I have to say though that the Noble just seems to have a bit more appeal. Perhaps I should use the change to buy a 2nd car for daily use... it is a shame to have to do this though and to be honest it should I really have to?
I notice that nobody has yet come up with a lap time!
They are clearly both good track cars. My impression is that the GT3 will last longer and wear the miles well, being therefor the better option for reasonable road mileage. I have to say though that the Noble just seems to have a bit more appeal. Perhaps I should use the change to buy a 2nd car for daily use... it is a shame to have to do this though and to be honest it should I really have to?
I notice that nobody has yet come up with a lap time!
IMHO the noble will be great on the road, but if you plan to track hard and often then you'll spend less time and money on maintenance with a GT3. You can't really expect that level of robustness from a low volume hand built British manufacturer. For my usage which is mostly track these days I'm a lot happier with the GT3 than I was with a GT03. I also much prefer high revving NA power delivery. On the downside, GT3s have very stiff setup with almost no suspension travel and this limits your pace on the road. They also cost a fair bit more to buy, but less to run (in my experience).
They are more different than you might think though and it would be a mistake to focus purely on accel figures and laptimes. Both are quick enough to very much enjoy on a trackday without getting to the point Radical point of being too fast for the other traffic. If you go the noble route you need to do your research as to what to look out for, especially with m400s that benefit greatly from some post factory work.
Both are great cars.
DanH said:
IMHO the noble will be great on the road, but if you plan to track hard and often then you'll spend less time and money on maintenance with a GT3. You can't really expect that level of robustness from a low volume hand built British manufacturer. For my usage which is mostly track these days I'm a lot happier with the GT3 than I was with a GT03. I also much prefer high revving NA power delivery. On the downside, GT3s have very stiff setup with almost no suspension travel and this limits your pace on the road. They also cost a fair bit more to buy, but less to run (in my experience).
They are more different than you might think though and it would be a mistake to focus purely on accel figures and laptimes. Both are quick enough to very much enjoy on a trackday without getting to the point Radical point of being too fast for the other traffic. If you go the noble route you need to do your research as to what to look out for, especially with m400s that benefit greatly from some post factory work.
Both are great cars.
Seconded.
M.
mikey_p said:
joust said:
mikey_p said:
Wasn't there an Evo Track Car of the Year article at some point in Evo that had both a Noble (can't remember which one) and a GT3 RS (I think), as well as a bunch of other cars. And they timed them round Bedford Autodrome. I can't remember whether the same driver drove both of them, or what the lap time was, butI think the Noble was a good several seconds in front.
It was rockingham IIRC on the national "infield" circuit, and IIARC the noble was crossing the start/finish line after 1 lap with the nearest car still coming around the final hairpin... J
Yep. Thats exactly the one I was thinking of, although I didn't realise it was Rockingham. I think the car on the hairpin was the GT3 RS. RobP, do you still have that Evo?
In my own experience (and this depends on the drivers of the GT3 RS of course) in an M12 GTO 3R a GT3 wouldn't have a problem getting away. In an M400 a GT3 would have a problem getting past. This is based on a sunny, dry day and me having a "good" day. In the wet i'd keep my indicator flashing waiting for the GT3 to come back round again.
Well if it was an RS, it was on inferior tyres to the m400 and thus the debate circles lol. (and if it was a standard GT3 then the tyres were just road ones which would make even more difference). Additionally the infield circuit has bugger all decent straights and lots of corners which will flatter a car with better tyres.
Anyway I honestly don't think there is a huge amount in it either way on track so it shouldn't be the primary consideration. If you just want raw thump in the back then there's always the GT2 but they don't handle as sweetly as the other two.
Interestingly the f430 is meant to be quicker than a GT3 in terms of accel figures, yet I was gaining under flatout acceleration on one at Bedford last week. Not enough to pass, but clawing in a few feet even when to the side rather than tucked up in his slipstream.
Edited by DanH on Friday 13th April 22:53
Edited by DanH on Friday 13th April 23:20
DanH said:
tonyf said:
I drove the GT3 back to back against the car I ended up buying (M400) and I can catergorically tell you that the M400 is much, much quicker than the GT3 can"t imagine the GT3 will beat a GT03 either to be honest.
That simply hasn't been my experience. Above 100 the noble (lack of) aerodynamics starts to count against it too.
I'm also certain it isn't slower than my GT03 was although FI torque does always give a more impressive shove in the back.
Perhaps if a few more people raced nobles we'd have some real data?
Edited by DanH on Friday 13th April 20:40
My only experience of my 3R vs a GT3 was at Brunters. The GT3 was slightly quicker off the line, but my 3R had pulled a couple of car lengths ahead by the end of the short straight. Took the corner a touch quicker and it took the entire length of the main straight for the GT3 to catch up. Crossed the speed trap identically but the GT3 was travelling faster as it crossed.
Edited by EpsomJames on Friday 13th April 22:58
I was in the passenger seat of Dan's Porker at Bedford and my Butt Dyno tells me there ain't a hill of beans between the cars. If I saw a Noble beat a Porsche on track, then saw the drivers swapping seats, I bet my pension on the Porsche for the second stint, and visa verse.
If I wanted a car to track any more than 4 times a year I'd get a GT3 RS. I chose my Noble as a road car with good track manners, that's why it's only been on track 3 times in (almost) as many years. Horses for courses.
Martin.
V6GTO said:
I was in the passenger seat of Dan's Porker at Bedford and my Butt Dyno tells me there ain't a hill of beans between the cars. If I saw a Noble beat a Porsche on track, then saw the drivers swapping seats, I bet my pension on the Porsche for the second stint, and visa verse.
If I wanted a car to track any more than 4 times a year I'd get a GT3 RS. I chose my Noble as a road car with good track manners, that's why it's only been on track 3 times in (almost) as many years. Horses for courses.
Martin.
Spot on imho.
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