How to limit oil surge

[ajg31]

Any bolt on item to help prevent oil surging? I still intend to track the car, but damn worried about having another catastrophic rebuild. Couldn't afford a second! Do Plans Motorsport offer anything? I know they have alot of experience in prepping the cars.

[paulcundy]

ajg31 said:

Any bolt on item to help prevent oil surging? I still intend to track the car, but damn worried about having another catastrophic rebuild. Couldn't afford a second! Do Plans Motorsport offer anything? I know they have alot of experience in prepping the cars.

From an enormous amount of tracking and racing by a whole load of people I'd dare to say the oil surge / starvation issue is sorted. Even the 500 bhp 1.3+ lateral G monster cars don't seem to suffer from it and my engines done 7,000 miles of which 99.99% have been racing, tracking or testing. As long as you've got the track day sump, keep the levels right and change your oil and filters frequently you should not have a problem.
Regards
Paul C

[adrian w]

Some people use these www.accusump.biz/ Think automotive sell them in the UK. Iv'e never seen one on a Noble

[ajg31]

Thanks Paul. Take your word on it Was it only the 2.5l models that had the oil surge issues then?
The accusump looks interesting. Kinda belt and braces, wouldnt like to rely on it but nice to know its there. Dont see any downsides except the amount of extra oil must be in the sump before the oil is drawn up into the accusump? Could be damaging if the crank whips up the oil. Or am i talking tosh as usual.

Edited by ajg31 on Tuesday 15th May 02:13

[DanH]

adrian w said:

Some people use these www.accusump.biz/ Think automotive sell them in the UK. Iv'e never seen one on a Noble

Paul had one. I don't think it worked out but I'm sure he can give you the details. Might be something to do with the big oil pressure drop with the v6 lump when you are idling. I've looked into them a bit and they are more complex and annoying than you might first expect...

[ajg31]

Cheers Dan. Do you know the pressure the lump should be at idle and at revs, say 3-4k?

Edited by ajg31 on Tuesday 15th May 02:15

[paulcundy]

DanH said:

adrian w said:

Some people use these www.accusump.biz/ Think automotive sell them in the UK. Iv'e never seen one on a Noble

Paul had one. I don't think it worked out but I'm sure he can give you the details. Might be something to do with the big oil pressure drop with the v6 lump when you are idling. I've looked into them a bit and they are more complex and annoying than you might first expect...

Dan's right. Been there done that. The accusump is designed to release its stored oil when the pressure in the system falls below 20psi. Idle pressure on a hot Noble is 15 psi so its fine when you are blatting about but as soon as you slow down or stop the accusump thinks your engine is being starved and releases 6 pints of extra oil into the system. Messy.
In the right application they are brilliant but it ain't the Noble. As I said oils surge / starvation is no longer a problem in the M12/400.
Regards
Paul C

[obes]

The track sump does sort the lateral G starvation issue completely, but you still have to be meticulous on the oil level. Mine lunched itself even with a track sump. It sprang a leak that I didn't notice and the oil level ran down very fast. One blat later, knackered !

[chillidog]

obes said:

The track sump does sort the lateral G starvation issue completely, but you still have to be meticulous on the oil level. Mine lunched itself even with a track sump. It sprang a leak that I didn't notice and the oil level ran down very fast. One blat later, knackered !

This is one of the reasons I'm installing the Motec ADL2 - www.motec.com/products/dash/adl2dash.htm - it can be setup to look at oil pressure and revs and generate an appropriate alarm.
--
Richard

[adrian w]

chillidog said:

obes said:

The track sump does sort the lateral G starvation issue completely, but you still have to be meticulous on the oil level. Mine lunched itself even with a track sump. It sprang a leak that I didn't notice and the oil level ran down very fast. One blat later, knackered !

This is one of the reasons I'm installing the Motec ADL2 - www.motec.com/products/dash/adl2dash.htm - it can be setup to look at oil pressure and revs and generate an appropriate alarm.
--
Richard

Richard, have you bought it yet? a Stack ST700 goes in the standard revcounter hole, i've got one in my Renault, you get rpm and four configerable alarms at all times, then you can call whatever you want.

[chillidog]

adrian w said:

Richard, have you bought it yet? a Stack ST700 goes in the standard revcounter hole, i've got one in my Renault, you get rpm and four configerable alarms at all times, then you can call whatever you want.

Yes, it's partly installed and once the installation is proven the whole dashboard can be dumped to save weight.
--
Richard

[adrian w]

chillidog said:

adrian w said:

Richard, have you bought it yet? a Stack ST700 goes in the standard revcounter hole, i've got one in my Renault, you get rpm and four configerable alarms at all times, then you can call whatever you want.

Yes, it's partly installed and once the installation is proven the whole dashboard can be dumped to save weight.
--
Richard

so is that Dash, Door cards, any heater bits(still left) and anything else left that you dont need. How much weight is that?

[chillidog]

adrian w said:

so is that Dash, Door cards, any heater bits(still left) and anything else left that you dont need. How much weight is that?

Heater's already gone, as are carpets and soundproofing.

Door cards are still left in place - some events may need them but I'm not sure.
When the dash comes out the windscreen should be replaced with a polycarbonate one.
Side windows and winding mechanism , well I'm considering polycarbonate windows as well.
Do I need the handbrake - nope?
The roll cage padding on the pax side needs to be dumped.

I'm wondering about the weight of that exhaust now ;-)

Aiming to get it under 1000 Kg .. 35 Kg to go. It's not that easy, it's all small reductions from now on.

Does it make a difference to lap times - yup.
--
Richard

[obes]

Yep, that was why I bought the DEFI. Does a similar thing but is an add on, independent of ECU. Monitors oil temp, water temp, oil pressure, fuel pressure, EGT and Boost and alarms if any reach their defined max/min.

Does the same on revs and speed too but have not connected that bit !

I use the "warm-up" mode on it quite a bit. The screen just says WARM UP until the water gets to the temp you set. I find it easier to control myself when that is telling me than just waiting for the gauge to come up !!

Edited by obes on Tuesday 15th May 15:23

[ThatPhilBrettGuy]

You could take out all the grills (well the ones on the rear clam anyway). Don't forget the rear window as well.

[chillidog]

ThatPhilBrettGuy said:

You could take out all the grills (well the ones on the rear clam anyway). Don't forget the rear window as well.

The rear grill one has gone.

The rear window ... yes seen it replaced with a version with big air holes in it. I still need a rear window though.

There are two big fans on my IC. The ADL2 will be logging inlet temp and engine bay temps so if I'm lucky the fans could be left off as well.

More ideas appreciated (but CF clams aren't that easy/cheap to have made up the first time around).
This is turning out to be a thread hijack (sorry).

--
Richard

[ACROWE]

chillidog said:

ThatPhilBrettGuy said:

You could take out all the grills (well the ones on the rear clam anyway). Don't forget the rear window as well.

The rear grill one has gone.

The rear window ... yes seen it replaced with a version with big air holes in it. I still need a rear window though.

There are two big fans on my IC. The ADL2 will be logging inlet temp and engine bay temps so if I'm lucky the fans could be left off as well.

More ideas appreciated (but CF clams aren't that easy/cheap to have made up the first time around).
This is turning out to be a thread hijack (sorry).

--
Richard

You could replace all your water hoses with lighter higher temperature one's?

Edited by ACROWE on Tuesday 15th May 16:11

[V6GTO]

You could lose a few of pounds by cutting this lot out.



Martin.

[chillidog]

Thanks for those two suggestions.

Andy - what would be the likely saving for the coolant hoses, have you any ideas?

Martin - this may indeed be feasible but you'd need to ensure that you had enough clam left for supporting the downforce from the wing.
--
Richard

[m12_nathan]

I assume you've ditched the standard battery?

What about ditching power steering, fluid, pump, Reservoir + pipes? Might not be a good idea if you do endurance events though.

Any KG's to be saved with a lighter flywheel? Carbon seat? I assume there are no door bars in the doors you can ditch (assuming you have side bars on your cage now).

Wing mirrors the same as pauls already I assume?