Newbie questions from potential future Noble owner
Discussion
Hi guys,
I've been looking for what I might swap my 968 for towards the end of the summer that's going to have a bit more power, but to still handle as well. I'd fancied the idea of a Noble for some time, and test drove one for the first time yesterday. It was this M12 GTO-3 at Castle TVR: http://www.castlesportscars.co.uk/index.php?mod=de...
I've come away with a few questions though, and wonder if you can help.
1) The car I drove had plenty of mid range power, but there was clearly no real benefit revving it past 6000 rpm. Is this normal?
2) The std Noble seat seemed to have a lot of recline, resulting in me not being able to have as much leg room as I ideally wanted. This, combined with the pedal offset that I'm not used to, made the driving position feel less than ideal. Is this a common issue, and is there a suggested way to improve this?
3) As I'll be using the car for a combination of road and track work, I feel I want a car with an LSD. I also see no reason not to have 6 gears rather than 5. This makes me think the premium for the GTO-3R is money well spent. Is this the general consensus?
4) I was surprised to find the suspension wasn't all fully adjustable. The salesman made out this wasn't an issue, but all solutions that are set up for multiple purposes and styles, by definition must be a compromise. Is there a solution to this? A common recommended suspension mod perhaps?
5) What sort of general maintenance costs should I expect? I've not owned a small scale produced car before, and expect more small issues with it due to the limited R&D, but does this lead to an extra grand a year or an extra five grand a year cost over a "normal" sports car?
6) What else should I be looking out for? Is there a decent buying guide around to point out the things to pay particular attention to?
Cheers,
Will
I've been looking for what I might swap my 968 for towards the end of the summer that's going to have a bit more power, but to still handle as well. I'd fancied the idea of a Noble for some time, and test drove one for the first time yesterday. It was this M12 GTO-3 at Castle TVR: http://www.castlesportscars.co.uk/index.php?mod=de...
I've come away with a few questions though, and wonder if you can help.
1) The car I drove had plenty of mid range power, but there was clearly no real benefit revving it past 6000 rpm. Is this normal?
2) The std Noble seat seemed to have a lot of recline, resulting in me not being able to have as much leg room as I ideally wanted. This, combined with the pedal offset that I'm not used to, made the driving position feel less than ideal. Is this a common issue, and is there a suggested way to improve this?
3) As I'll be using the car for a combination of road and track work, I feel I want a car with an LSD. I also see no reason not to have 6 gears rather than 5. This makes me think the premium for the GTO-3R is money well spent. Is this the general consensus?
4) I was surprised to find the suspension wasn't all fully adjustable. The salesman made out this wasn't an issue, but all solutions that are set up for multiple purposes and styles, by definition must be a compromise. Is there a solution to this? A common recommended suspension mod perhaps?
5) What sort of general maintenance costs should I expect? I've not owned a small scale produced car before, and expect more small issues with it due to the limited R&D, but does this lead to an extra grand a year or an extra five grand a year cost over a "normal" sports car?
6) What else should I be looking out for? Is there a decent buying guide around to point out the things to pay particular attention to?
Cheers,
Will
AMG Merc said:
Looks like a fine example - a little on the £high though but if it comes with a warranty and is dealer backed and prepared and you love it then why not!
Make sure it is a 6-speeder as listed - AFAIR this model came with 5!
I'd say the price was fine. You can get the M12-3 with the 6 speed box and LSD, cus that's what I have.Make sure it is a 6-speeder as listed - AFAIR this model came with 5!
1) The car I drove had plenty of mid range power, but there was clearly no real benefit revving it past 6000 rpm. Is this normal?
Not sure what you mean by no benefit. The torque curve does start to drop off after around 6500, and depending on what exhaust it had (normal I assume) it can feel a bit straigned in the first few gears.
2) The std Noble seat seemed to have a lot of recline, resulting in me not being able to have as much leg room as I ideally wanted. This, combined with the pedal offset that I'm not used to, made the driving position feel less than ideal. Is this a common issue, and is there a suggested way to improve this?
You could fit M400 seats which have adjustable (with a bit of a faff) recline.
3) As I'll be using the car for a combination of road and track work, I feel I want a car with an LSD. I also see no reason not to have 6 gears rather than 5. This makes me think the premium for the GTO-3R is money well spent. Is this the general consensus?
4) I was surprised to find the suspension wasn't all fully adjustable. The salesman made out this wasn't an issue, but all solutions that are set up for multiple purposes and styles, by definition must be a compromise. Is there a solution to this? A common recommended suspension mod perhaps?
There are aftermarket suspension that is adjustable, but the standard really is very good. Unless you are a ChassisGod(TM) ala Lee Noble, why not spend the money on some driver training instead?
5) What sort of general maintenance costs should I expect? I've not owned a small scale produced car before, and expect more small issues with it due to the limited R&D, but does this lead to an extra grand a year or an extra five grand a year cost over a "normal" sports car?Many people spend around £1k per year, I've averaged around £1500. Each trackday should be treated as 1000-2000 miles of normal driving IMHO, and so when I was tracking my car I had oil changes done far more often, as well as chewing brake pads, discs etc.
6) What else should I be looking out for? Is there a decent buying guide around to point out the things to pay particular attention to?
There is an excellent buyer guide in the back issue of Evo which features my M400 and and Obes' M12. It's a very good starting point.
Also search for "buyers guide" etc. in the noble section on here, it will turn up threads like this
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
J
Not sure what you mean by no benefit. The torque curve does start to drop off after around 6500, and depending on what exhaust it had (normal I assume) it can feel a bit straigned in the first few gears.
2) The std Noble seat seemed to have a lot of recline, resulting in me not being able to have as much leg room as I ideally wanted. This, combined with the pedal offset that I'm not used to, made the driving position feel less than ideal. Is this a common issue, and is there a suggested way to improve this?
You could fit M400 seats which have adjustable (with a bit of a faff) recline.
3) As I'll be using the car for a combination of road and track work, I feel I want a car with an LSD. I also see no reason not to have 6 gears rather than 5. This makes me think the premium for the GTO-3R is money well spent. Is this the general consensus?
4) I was surprised to find the suspension wasn't all fully adjustable. The salesman made out this wasn't an issue, but all solutions that are set up for multiple purposes and styles, by definition must be a compromise. Is there a solution to this? A common recommended suspension mod perhaps?
There are aftermarket suspension that is adjustable, but the standard really is very good. Unless you are a ChassisGod(TM) ala Lee Noble, why not spend the money on some driver training instead?
5) What sort of general maintenance costs should I expect? I've not owned a small scale produced car before, and expect more small issues with it due to the limited R&D, but does this lead to an extra grand a year or an extra five grand a year cost over a "normal" sports car?Many people spend around £1k per year, I've averaged around £1500. Each trackday should be treated as 1000-2000 miles of normal driving IMHO, and so when I was tracking my car I had oil changes done far more often, as well as chewing brake pads, discs etc.
6) What else should I be looking out for? Is there a decent buying guide around to point out the things to pay particular attention to?
There is an excellent buyer guide in the back issue of Evo which features my M400 and and Obes' M12. It's a very good starting point.
Also search for "buyers guide" etc. in the noble section on here, it will turn up threads like this
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
J
willdew said:
Hi guys,
6) What else should I be looking out for? Is there a decent buying guide around to point out the things to pay particular attention to?
1) The car I drove had plenty of mid range power, but there was clearly no real benefit revving it past 6000 rpm. Is this normal?
Cheers,
Will
It is if you have valve surge!6) What else should I be looking out for? Is there a decent buying guide around to point out the things to pay particular attention to?
1) The car I drove had plenty of mid range power, but there was clearly no real benefit revving it past 6000 rpm. Is this normal?
Cheers,
Will
Mine(M400) was like that but since I had an exhaust and re-map it pulls clean through to the limiter.
Call Trevor Jasper at Roush and discuss BEFORE handing over your money.
F.C.
willdew said:
1) The car I drove had plenty of mid range power, but there was clearly no real benefit revving it past 6000 rpm. Is this normal?
I think this is normal. The T25s of the 3r do spool very early and can run out of puff at the top end. My old 3r felt very much like this, and to a lesser degree the m400. Exhaust plus remap with either trevor @ roush or peter @ noble motorsport will rectify.
Steve
Adrian W said:
Just down the road to me, I thought Castle are owned by Noble London (could be wrong) why are they selling it in Bishops Stortford? and not Barnet
Not sure on the details but Giles was bought out of Noble London in Barnet (or sold it) to the other guys that work there and I'm not sure if they are still buying and selling cars (apart from the remaining stock). But Giles still owns Castle (I believe) so it's effectively a different garage now.Thats probably completely wrong though as it's based on hear-say and assumptions.
mikey_p said:
Adrian W said:
Just down the road to me, I thought Castle are owned by Noble London (could be wrong) why are they selling it in Bishops Stortford? and not Barnet
Not sure on the details but Giles was bought out of Noble London in Barnet (or sold it) to the other guys that work there and I'm not sure if they are still buying and selling cars (apart from the remaining stock). But Giles still owns Castle (I believe) so it's effectively a different garage now.Thats probably completely wrong though as it's based on hear-say and assumptions.
willdew said:
Thanks guys.
It certainly wasn't slow - but the power trailed off as I climbed the rev range. I presume an exhaust is £1000 and a remap another £500?
The Noble has much more lower end torque compared to up nearing the red. Seems odd at first but to drive it fast you need to change at around 6/6.5k.It certainly wasn't slow - but the power trailed off as I climbed the rev range. I presume an exhaust is £1000 and a remap another £500?
The price depends on what exhaust you go for, I'm unsure on the details of the H&S one but the Roush exhaust is about £2400 including VAT, fitting, ceramic coating and upgraded fuel pumps and wiring loom?? I'm not sure about a re-map though. I do know that the Roush exhaust does give a noticable change in the torque curve and power delivery is luuurvly, although there is barely enough time to put your hand back on the steering wheel before the next gear change
.You might want to consider an upgraded intercooler as well to alleviate some of the heat soak.
mikey_p said:
willdew said:
Thanks guys.
It certainly wasn't slow - but the power trailed off as I climbed the rev range. I presume an exhaust is £1000 and a remap another £500?
The Noble has much more lower end torque compared to up nearing the red. Seems odd at first but to drive it fast you need to change at around 6/6.5k.It certainly wasn't slow - but the power trailed off as I climbed the rev range. I presume an exhaust is £1000 and a remap another £500?
The price depends on what exhaust you go for, I'm unsure on the details of the H&S one but the Roush exhaust is about £2400 including VAT, fitting, ceramic coating and upgraded fuel pumps and wiring loom?? I'm not sure about a re-map though. I do know that the Roush exhaust does give a noticable change in the torque curve and power delivery is luuurvly, although there is barely enough time to put your hand back on the steering wheel before the next gear change
.You might want to consider an upgraded intercooler as well to alleviate some of the heat soak.
It would be advisable to upgrade the wiring first anyway and maybe get it remapped. sure setting it up correctly would release a few ponies. The very high Roush price includes RR time, before and after prints and a remap. LOTS of threads about this, best to make your own mind up. Agree with more power you need better cooling as well.
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