m400 or modifications?

[CTO3]

hi there
was looking for some advice/opinions on what to do as i want to get more from my car on track. (already had some instruction and will continue the education) i've had an '03 gto3 for 2 yrs with tds, 5 speed, open diff, grooved ap discs/pagids, r888's and bov. as most of my miles tend to be on trackdays i'm either thinking about roughly £10k on 6speed,lsd, nitrons, h+s exhaust, remap, fuel pump, etc or selling up/trading in, adding £20k or so and getting and m400
what to the knowledgable folks on this forum think?

[Adrian W]

mods

[peterguk]

Depends on your time, skills, space, equipment and money. To many, mods is an easier and/or more convenient route.

I have the tools, facilities etc. so am transplanting an M400 transaxle into my M12. Not expecting it to be without swearing, but quite happy to take the job on.

[RobP]

CTO3 said:

hi there
was looking for some advice/opinions on what to do as i want to get more from my car on track. (already had some instruction and will continue the education) i've had an '03 gto3 for 2 yrs with tds, 5 speed, open diff, grooved ap discs/pagids, r888's and bov. as most of my miles tend to be on trackdays i'm either thinking about roughly £10k on 6speed,lsd, nitrons, h+s exhaust, remap, fuel pump, etc or selling up/trading in, adding £20k or so and getting and m400
what to the knowledgable folks on this forum think?

M400

[CTO3]

have few skills and little time so would be paying much more skilled individuals to mod for me. would probably think of john noble motorsport as closest? in leeds area

[ajg31]

M400. Should be able to keep alot more of your investmetn too then when/if you ever sell up

[CTO3]

peterguk,
when you say you're happy to take on the job are you referring to your own car or do you mean you would do the necessary to my car? would it cost less than jnm to do so? as missus just put deposit on slk today
cheers
conleth

[peterguk]

CTO3 said:

peterguk,
when you say you're happy to take on the job are you referring to your own car or do you mean you would do the necessary to my car? would it cost less than jnm to do so? as missus just put deposit on slk today
cheers
conleth

Noble work is not something i've thought about seriously. Right now i specialise in MR2s. However, with the complete lack of dealers in the Yorkshire area i might be tempted in the future.

I'm documenting the whole transplant from start to finish, so will have plenty of data at the end of the job.

I see you're in Leeds? Barnsley here. PM me if you want to share a beer or two....

[gadgeroonie]

how much power are you looking for and how much do you want to spend, I guess is the question

consider a gearbox rebuild in there too at some stage

speak to NickyTwoHats - he has modded the same car you own with some pretty good results

[paulcundy]

CTO3 said:

hi there
was looking for some advice/opinions on what to do as i want to get more from my car on track. (already had some instruction and will continue the education) i've had an '03 gto3 for 2 yrs with tds, 5 speed, open diff, grooved ap discs/pagids, r888's and bov. as most of my miles tend to be on trackdays i'm either thinking about roughly £10k on 6speed,lsd, nitrons, h+s exhaust, remap, fuel pump, etc or selling up/trading in, adding £20k or so and getting and m400
what to the knowledgable folks on this forum think?

If you buy a non modded M400 you'll have to be adding even more money to get the new M400 the brakes, dampers, BOV etc etc.

Changing from a modded car to a non modded car doesn't mean you won't end up spening money modding the new one.

Think what you could do £20K spent on the O3.

Add rollcage braces, cutout and extinguisher and you coul dcome racing. Sounds like you're the sort who ought to.
Regards
Paul C

[CTO3]

probably looking for somewhere between 400-440bhp, is this realistic with a £10k budget? what i would like to know is if i went for that sort of power - similar to standard m400 - and had geo set up + nitrons etc would this make the car faster than an m400 in standard form on track?

[Adrian W]

CTO3 said:

probably looking for somewhere between 400-440bhp, is this realistic with a £10k budget? what i would like to know is if i went for that sort of power - similar to standard m400 - and had geo set up + nitrons etc would this make the car faster than an m400 in standard form on track?

In reality and not Noble handouts the standard M400 makes between 370-380 bhp (there are a couple of exeptions) to get 440 bhp out of an M400 you are going to need to spend some money.

Edited by Adrian W on Sunday 9th September 17:14

[joust]

Either I'm dead lucky, or my 436bhp (Roush exhaust the only change) on my M400 was down to just running it in carefully.

J

[Mr Noble]

Ypu'll find a modded 3 or 3R faster and easier to drive than an M400 due to its torque curve being about 100-1500rpm lower in the rev range.

I mapped and exhausted 3 is actually a faster car to drive in everyday use than a 400 and is better damped on roads too.

M400 would be a better drive on track especially with nitrons. I also guess it would s++t on a 3R on track if you modded that too.

Just look at wahat Adrian has achieved. His is a monster and should have a government health warning!!

G

[RobP]

Mr Noble said:

Ypu'll find a modded 3 or 3R faster and easier to drive than an M400 due to its torque curve being about 100-1500rpm lower in the rev range.

I mapped and exhausted 3 is actually a faster car to drive in everyday use than a 400 and is better damped on roads too.

M400 would be a better drive on track especially with nitrons. I also guess it would s++t on a 3R on track if you modded that too.

Just look at wahat Adrian has achieved. His is a monster and should have a government health warning!!

G

Bo****ks.
Standard M400 is quicker on road or track (though 3R certainly is more comfortable on road). Remember, I had both.
Standard Dynamics dampers on M400 do not need changing (esp to Nitrons). Upgrade to Ohlins on an M400 will increase performance on track, but make it even more grim to use on road.
Adrian runs standard Dynamics.
Agree that Adrian's car should come with a Health Warning

[Mr Noble]

I said that a modded 3R with Roush exhaust and remap would be faster on the road that a std. M400 due to its lower torque curve and better on road handling.

At least thats what I was trying to say.

M400 better on brack any which way you look at them.

[joust]

Greg, I have to agree with Rob. There is no way a modded 3R could keep up with a M400 road or track.

Please don't overstate the road manners issue of the M400. Yes, the M400 is harder sprung, and so has less compliant road manners, but that is when you are a 0-60/70% of finding the edge.

Once you start to up the ante, the M400 suspension starts to load up and things get exceptionally capable. As you head off to 80-90% the 3R would become a very unhappy place to be in compared to the M400, as you would be exceeding the capabilities of the car's softer suspension.

If you want to drive around and have the odd spirited drive then the 3R is perfectly good. If you want the occasional, where safe, voyage into stupid land, or you want far better track manners, then the M400 is the car of choice IMHO.

J

[joust]

Mr Noble said:

I said that a modded 3R with Roush exhaust and remap would be faster on the road that a std. M400 due to its lower torque curve and better on road handling.
At least thats what I was trying to say.
M400 better on brack any which way you look at them.

Unlikely. If you give your M400 to someone who can service it properly then you should be able to get 410bhp+ out of a standard M400. Given the 6 speed box the torque thing is slightly moot, it's very easy on road to keep the M400s turbos on song when the pace picks up.

J

[Adrian W]

joust said:

Mr Noble said:

I said that a modded 3R with Roush exhaust and remap would be faster on the road that a std. M400 due to its lower torque curve and better on road handling.
At least thats what I was trying to say.
M400 better on brack any which way you look at them.

Unlikely. If you give your M400 to someone who can service it properly then you should be able to get 410bhp+ out of a standard M400. Given the 6 speed box the torque thing is slightly moot, it's very easy on road to keep the M400s turbos on song when the pace picks up.

J

J Yours was one of the exceptions I was talking about (you knew that) to get 400+ bhp they used a high boost map, problem with this is on some cars is they suffer from "surge" and the valve springs cant hold.

Regarding handling, the M400 set up with increased camber will be good enough for most mortals, you get more grip due to a larger contact patch and when on the limit (unlikely to find this on the road) the car is a lot less violent and edgy.

[nigelw]

What is the camber as standard , and what do you increase it to ? ..thanks