Discussion
What fuel does everyone put in their car?, various people say avoid the likes of the supermarket forecourts and go to the main suppliers. Others say it doesn't matter.
How many put unleaded in against super unleaded and what do they think.
Also, the new plugs I have bought came set at about 1.3mm which I reckon is about 55 thou, now I seem to be hearing that they should be set at about 35-40 thou, what difference does this actually make to the performance.
And last but not least, when I pull up at lights my lights dim a lot, now I have read that there is an after market lead recommended fo putting on the battery, but my question is, if the voltage is lowering at that point is it likely to allow misfiring if the gap is that big on the plugs, ie the voltage is not great enogh to jump the gap.
Thanks in anticipation
How many put unleaded in against super unleaded and what do they think.
Also, the new plugs I have bought came set at about 1.3mm which I reckon is about 55 thou, now I seem to be hearing that they should be set at about 35-40 thou, what difference does this actually make to the performance.
And last but not least, when I pull up at lights my lights dim a lot, now I have read that there is an after market lead recommended fo putting on the battery, but my question is, if the voltage is lowering at that point is it likely to allow misfiring if the gap is that big on the plugs, ie the voltage is not great enogh to jump the gap.
Thanks in anticipation
I'll have a go re your fuel question...
Factory (and Lee Noble) says car is mapped for regular unleaded 95 RON/EN228. Some put Optimax, and brand equivalent, in for the supposed added boost and cleaning properties but, AFAIK, these benefits, although only costing you a few £s per year extra in total fillups, have never been proven.
I put Optimax in a few days before and after a trackday but can't say why really
Factory (and Lee Noble) says car is mapped for regular unleaded 95 RON/EN228. Some put Optimax, and brand equivalent, in for the supposed added boost and cleaning properties but, AFAIK, these benefits, although only costing you a few £s per year extra in total fillups, have never been proven.
I put Optimax in a few days before and after a trackday but can't say why really
Always super unleaded for me, filled up with Vpower the other day, so far havent seen any difference in performance. I read an article(god I found it-evo 2005 
) where they tested:
SUNOCO GT RACE FUEL (note in 05 this was £3.54 a ltr!!!)
BP ULITIMATE
TESCO 99
SHELL OPTIMAX
BP 95
SHELL 95
The test cars they used where-golf gti (so turboed) and an M5. The results where as the list above with the sunoco being first-unsurprisingly. One useful point made was to always use a busy fuel station to avoid moisture that can build up in a static fuel tanks(the stations) roof then drip into the fuel you are then pumping into your tank!!. The torque increase matched the bhp increase with the same results. To help with the question I will quote a question written in the article,
WHAT SORT OF ENGINES STAND TO BENEFIT MOST FROM HIGHER OCTANE FUEL-SMALL OR BIG,FORCED OR NATURAL INDUCTION?
Any enqine will benefit from high-octane fuel if its compression ratio is high enough to take it to the knock limit on 95-(comments on the noble engine anyone on this??). Many now use knock limit and retard the ignition to stop it happening-at a cost in performance and efficiency. This enables them to run happy on 95, but they will run better on 98. The management systems on turbo engines take the knock limit into account via the wastegate or blow-off valve setting (or by controlling the variable geometry of the turbo). The golden rule:if in doubt, consult the handbook (noble handbook says-To achive maximum performance and efficiency, it is recommended that the vehicle is refuelled with Super Unleaded (98 RON). However, in circumstances where this is not available, the vehicle will perform satisfactorily on standard (95RON) unleaded fuel). The rule of thumb: almost any four-valve engine will do better on 98.
So on reflection dont use unleaded!! Hope this helps
Paul
) where they tested: SUNOCO GT RACE FUEL (note in 05 this was £3.54 a ltr!!!)
BP ULITIMATE
TESCO 99
SHELL OPTIMAX
BP 95
SHELL 95
The test cars they used where-golf gti (so turboed) and an M5. The results where as the list above with the sunoco being first-unsurprisingly. One useful point made was to always use a busy fuel station to avoid moisture that can build up in a static fuel tanks(the stations) roof then drip into the fuel you are then pumping into your tank!!. The torque increase matched the bhp increase with the same results. To help with the question I will quote a question written in the article,
WHAT SORT OF ENGINES STAND TO BENEFIT MOST FROM HIGHER OCTANE FUEL-SMALL OR BIG,FORCED OR NATURAL INDUCTION?
Any enqine will benefit from high-octane fuel if its compression ratio is high enough to take it to the knock limit on 95-(comments on the noble engine anyone on this??). Many now use knock limit and retard the ignition to stop it happening-at a cost in performance and efficiency. This enables them to run happy on 95, but they will run better on 98. The management systems on turbo engines take the knock limit into account via the wastegate or blow-off valve setting (or by controlling the variable geometry of the turbo). The golden rule:if in doubt, consult the handbook (noble handbook says-To achive maximum performance and efficiency, it is recommended that the vehicle is refuelled with Super Unleaded (98 RON). However, in circumstances where this is not available, the vehicle will perform satisfactorily on standard (95RON) unleaded fuel). The rule of thumb: almost any four-valve engine will do better on 98.
So on reflection dont use unleaded!! Hope this helps
Paul
AMG Merc said:
I'll have a go re your fuel question...
Factory (and Lee Noble) says car is mapped for regular unleaded 95 RON/EN228. Some put Optimax, and brand equivalent, in for the supposed added boost and cleaning properties but, AFAIK, these benefits, although only costing you a few £s per year extra in total fillups, have never been proven.
I put Optimax in a few days before and after a trackday but can't say why really
Interesting they say 95 as handbook quotes 98 RON as recommended?? Factory (and Lee Noble) says car is mapped for regular unleaded 95 RON/EN228. Some put Optimax, and brand equivalent, in for the supposed added boost and cleaning properties but, AFAIK, these benefits, although only costing you a few £s per year extra in total fillups, have never been proven.
I put Optimax in a few days before and after a trackday but can't say why really
wessexrfc said:
Interesting they say 95 as handbook quotes 98 RON as recommended??
Right, lot's of jawjaw here about fuel over the past 6 years! AFAIR the factory said that the 98 RON mention in the handbook was a printing error.Trevor (he mapped the thing!) will be along soon and IIRC? he said upping the RON past 95 makes no difference at all to his settings (as the engine compensates to 95 RON or something?). He'll explain why with a whiteboard soon!
indeed if you don't know the history...
This is a huge subject, start talking about RON & MON and it gets confusing due to the "unhelpful" way in which petrol manufacturers in the UK grade their fuel, they don't release the MON figures and they are more important/relevant than the RON figures in modern engines.
Modern ECU's (on the whole) do usually correct up to knock to advance the ignition timing. The MBE ECU does have adaptive mapping which if it works in the same fashion as other ECU's will try to maximise available fuel quality by advancing ignition timing to knock (cylinder detonation) if the range of allowable advance is within it's allowable parameters, then pull back slightly as knock is detected.
I have to say, I've not spotted a knock sensor on the engine yet so will take a look tomorrow.
Not a hard and fast rule, but the better the RON, the better the fuel. Other elements also come into the equation such as fuel oxygen content Etc.
Some of the "Race fuels" are much more potent, but become increasingly more expensive. We have a can of Race Fuel at work, wrks out at circa £7.00 per litre!
Mike.
Modern ECU's (on the whole) do usually correct up to knock to advance the ignition timing. The MBE ECU does have adaptive mapping which if it works in the same fashion as other ECU's will try to maximise available fuel quality by advancing ignition timing to knock (cylinder detonation) if the range of allowable advance is within it's allowable parameters, then pull back slightly as knock is detected.
I have to say, I've not spotted a knock sensor on the engine yet so will take a look tomorrow.
Not a hard and fast rule, but the better the RON, the better the fuel. Other elements also come into the equation such as fuel oxygen content Etc.
Some of the "Race fuels" are much more potent, but become increasingly more expensive. We have a can of Race Fuel at work, wrks out at circa £7.00 per litre!
Mike.
Adrian W said:
Don't use diesel there is no anti knock, the MBE just uses the Temp sensors.
there is no anti knock, the MBE just uses the Temp sensors. 
Didn't think I'd seen a knock sensor. 
So the rule is, be on the safe side and stick to the highest octane you can get, just in case a previous owner has had a remap with 99 RON fuel.
I'm glad I'm swapping out to a better ECU soon.
Mike
AFAIK:
If it's a factory map then it's tuned for 95 RON.
There's no safety reason to swap an MBE ECU or go away from 95 RON fuel.
If an owner wants to choose a "cleaner" variety of fuel or one with a higher calorific value then that's their choice but they won't get any more power from doing so.
--
Richard
If it's a factory map then it's tuned for 95 RON.
There's no safety reason to swap an MBE ECU or go away from 95 RON fuel.
If an owner wants to choose a "cleaner" variety of fuel or one with a higher calorific value then that's their choice but they won't get any more power from doing so.
--
Richard
chillidog said:
... but they won't get any more power from doing so
Almost right, depending on the additive. Some additives can alter the burn characteristics so that you get slightly more power (affecting the burn rate can allow more fuel to be burnt at an almost constant volume improving the combustion cycle efficiency) at the same ignition timing.Richard is right that the factory maps are 95RON, and safe enough too - Lee definitely didn't want any chance of warranty work from the calibration, be the cars new or with over many tens of thousands of miles!!!
On the other hand, the cleaning agents I've seen when an engine has only been used on BP Ultimate have kept the inlet side really clean, and that can only be a good thing for keeping the engine at the same efficiency level as new.
So to sum up. All factory maps are 95RON safe. You may or may not get better power on other more expensive fuels without re-mapping. You'll definitely have a safety margin (cf peace of mind!) on 98RON for extra hard usage - like trackdays - and the added detergents, in my experience, seem to work.
YellowShed
Edited to add: As others have said, there are no knock sensors fitted to Nobles (though the MBE ECU has an active knock strategy which was never used).
Edited by YellowShed on Sunday 8th March 17:07
The 3.0 Ford Duratec does not incorporate a knock sensor. That means there is no way at all for the Noble ECU to "adjust" to different grades of fuel. So it's back to basics: if you hear a knock/ping under any driving or load condition the octane of the fuel you are using is too low .
.I was filling up today with Shell 95 and the guy behind the counter said I should fill up with Vmax. He said that in the long term I would save money as the fuel is more efficient and gives you more miles per gallon ..
Is that rubbish? Or is he talking sense? I believe he is talking rubbish.
I am not looking for more performance ... the Noble has enough thanks! But if it is going to clean my engine I might use it.
Is that rubbish? Or is he talking sense? I believe he is talking rubbish.
I am not looking for more performance ... the Noble has enough thanks! But if it is going to clean my engine I might use it.
my experience has shown me higher octane fuels burn slower - so this effectively retards the ignition !
unless the car is mapped for a higher ron, don't expect it to make any more power (possibly less)
if the car was overadvanced in the first place, then the higher octane may make you some power
i always map my cars on 97 so the owner can fill it with the lowest super you can get
the tesco 99 is not a bad fuel from what i have heard from the fuel companies
unless the car is mapped for a higher ron, don't expect it to make any more power (possibly less)
if the car was overadvanced in the first place, then the higher octane may make you some power
i always map my cars on 97 so the owner can fill it with the lowest super you can get
the tesco 99 is not a bad fuel from what i have heard from the fuel companies
fhwong said:
I was filling up today with Shell 95 and the guy behind the counter said I should fill up with Vmax. He said that in the long term I would save money as the fuel is more efficient and gives you more miles per gallon ..
Is that rubbish? Or is he talking sense? I believe he is talking rubbish.
I am not looking for more performance ... the Noble has enough thanks! But if it is going to clean my engine I might use it.
Some fuels have additives that may help keep injectors operating efficiently. But claims of a noticeable improvement in fuel economy are most likely exaggerated.Is that rubbish? Or is he talking sense? I believe he is talking rubbish.
I am not looking for more performance ... the Noble has enough thanks! But if it is going to clean my engine I might use it.
I tend to run mine on higher octane fuel and only put 95 in if its not available in the station Im filling at... Ive never noticed any change in mileage from each tank when swopping between fuels (and I do monitor it).
Certainly running it on higher octain costs me more but I do it because of the extra additives some have which help the engine in other ways.
Certainly running it on higher octain costs me more but I do it because of the extra additives some have which help the engine in other ways.
No not bothered about the money - I was just asking whether what he was saying was true or not.
Plus whether it will actually really help maintain my engine.
How am I ever going to tell whether a lot of people use V-Max at my local petrol station!
OK but now I have 95 in there .. it is OK to mix 98? I guess it is ... it just will mix to 97! Ha ...
Plus whether it will actually really help maintain my engine.
How am I ever going to tell whether a lot of people use V-Max at my local petrol station!
OK but now I have 95 in there .. it is OK to mix 98? I guess it is ... it just will mix to 97! Ha ...
Edited by fhwong on Monday 14th September 17:55
fhwong said:
OK but now I have 95 in there .. it is OK to mix 98? I guess it is ... it just will mix to 97! Ha ...
Perfectly fine to mix different RON ratings. Edited by fhwong on Monday 14th September 17:55
My 2p's worth is I always use Shell V-Power. I haven't noticed any difference in power but I do get better MPG on both my Noble and my daily clunker. MPG difference is not significant enough to bridge the price differential, however if the additives do keep the injectors and combustion cleaner, this is where the real savings will be made ultimately.
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