Throttle pedals
Discussion
I`m still getting used to my new 3R acquistion but one thing that I really can`t get used to is the throttle pedal in relationship to the brake pedal. Over the years I`ve driven many, many cars but I`ve never before driven one where the throttle pedal is actually `higher` than the brake. This means two things: a)You have to be very careful not to press the throttle at the same time as the brake...I`ve done this a couple of times and it REALLY gets your attention. And b) it makes `heel and toeing`, where you blip the throttle on a down change whilst braking to match the engine revs to the new gear/road speed, almost impossible. See the picture below:
Now I couldn`t adjust the throttle position on my car - when the pedal hits the carpet the throttle is just fully open - so to lower it by adjusting the `return stop` and cable would have meant I`d no longer get the full power....So, I have removed and modified my throttle pedal as shown on the next photo:
Basically the `U` section that your foot presses has been cut off flush with the main rod. The change can be reverted back by welding the two parts back again if you ever wanted to go back to the standard arrangement. The vestigal parts of the original `U` act as supports for a new pedal surface which is held in place - in my case - by two stainless steel M3 contersunk screws. I made the new pedal surface from 1mm polished stainless plate which is also sculptured on one edge to provide even more clearance to the shape of your shoe when you brake. When all re-assembled the pedals look like the following photo:
The throttle is now below the brake so you can`t hit both together - and there is an adjustable tab to get the `heel and toe` function spot on to your preference. Just be very careful that the new pedal can`t get caught behind the carpet edge shown or you`ll have full throttle stuck open...Also, because the pedal is now longer your foot doesn`t even get close to coming off the bottom of the pedal when you give it the full works.
I hope this all looks OK - it`s the first time I`ve uploaded photos.
Now I couldn`t adjust the throttle position on my car - when the pedal hits the carpet the throttle is just fully open - so to lower it by adjusting the `return stop` and cable would have meant I`d no longer get the full power....So, I have removed and modified my throttle pedal as shown on the next photo:
Basically the `U` section that your foot presses has been cut off flush with the main rod. The change can be reverted back by welding the two parts back again if you ever wanted to go back to the standard arrangement. The vestigal parts of the original `U` act as supports for a new pedal surface which is held in place - in my case - by two stainless steel M3 contersunk screws. I made the new pedal surface from 1mm polished stainless plate which is also sculptured on one edge to provide even more clearance to the shape of your shoe when you brake. When all re-assembled the pedals look like the following photo:
The throttle is now below the brake so you can`t hit both together - and there is an adjustable tab to get the `heel and toe` function spot on to your preference. Just be very careful that the new pedal can`t get caught behind the carpet edge shown or you`ll have full throttle stuck open...Also, because the pedal is now longer your foot doesn`t even get close to coming off the bottom of the pedal when you give it the full works.
I hope this all looks OK - it`s the first time I`ve uploaded photos.
BobE said:
I`m still getting used to my new 3R acquistion but one thing that I really can`t get used to is the throttle pedal in relationship to the brake pedal. Over the years I`ve driven many, many cars but I`ve never before driven one where the throttle pedal is actually `higher` than the brake. This means two things: a)You have to be very careful not to press the throttle at the same time as the brake...I`ve done this a couple of times and it REALLY gets your attention. And b) it makes `heel and toeing`, where you blip the throttle on a down change whilst braking to match the engine revs to the new gear/road speed, almost impossible. See the picture below:
Now I couldn`t adjust the throttle position on my car - when the pedal hits the carpet the throttle is just fully open - so to lower it by adjusting the `return stop` and cable would have meant I`d no longer get the full power....So, I have removed and modified my throttle pedal as shown on the next photo:
Basically the `U` section that your foot presses has been cut off flush with the main rod. The change can be reverted back by welding the two parts back again if you ever wanted to go back to the standard arrangement. The vestigal parts of the original `U` act as supports for a new pedal surface which is held in place - in my case - by two stainless steel M3 contersunk screws. I made the new pedal surface from 1mm polished stainless plate which is also sculptured on one edge to provide even more clearance to the shape of your shoe when you brake. When all re-assembled the pedals look like the following photo:
The throttle is now below the brake so you can`t hit both together - and there is an adjustable tab to get the `heel and toe` function spot on to your preference. Just be very careful that the new pedal can`t get caught behind the carpet edge shown or you`ll have full throttle stuck open...Also, because the pedal is now longer your foot doesn`t even get close to coming off the bottom of the pedal when you give it the full works.
I hope this all looks OK - it`s the first time I`ve uploaded photos.
Good info, thanks Bob!Now I couldn`t adjust the throttle position on my car - when the pedal hits the carpet the throttle is just fully open - so to lower it by adjusting the `return stop` and cable would have meant I`d no longer get the full power....So, I have removed and modified my throttle pedal as shown on the next photo:
Basically the `U` section that your foot presses has been cut off flush with the main rod. The change can be reverted back by welding the two parts back again if you ever wanted to go back to the standard arrangement. The vestigal parts of the original `U` act as supports for a new pedal surface which is held in place - in my case - by two stainless steel M3 contersunk screws. I made the new pedal surface from 1mm polished stainless plate which is also sculptured on one edge to provide even more clearance to the shape of your shoe when you brake. When all re-assembled the pedals look like the following photo:
The throttle is now below the brake so you can`t hit both together - and there is an adjustable tab to get the `heel and toe` function spot on to your preference. Just be very careful that the new pedal can`t get caught behind the carpet edge shown or you`ll have full throttle stuck open...Also, because the pedal is now longer your foot doesn`t even get close to coming off the bottom of the pedal when you give it the full works.
I hope this all looks OK - it`s the first time I`ve uploaded photos.
Where are you in Glos? I'm in 'Nam if you fancy a mini meet.
I live just north of Tewkesbury - at Chuch End. If that`s in your area (?) then yes we could meet up. Drop me a mail with your e-mail or phone number so we can make contact.
I forgot to mention on the piece above that there is a slight change in `feel` as your foot/toe slides over the pedal surface - and hence the reason for making it from a polished material. I would also add that when you get to my age is a b****r getting into the footwell to take out the pedal....!
I forgot to mention on the piece above that there is a slight change in `feel` as your foot/toe slides over the pedal surface - and hence the reason for making it from a polished material. I would also add that when you get to my age is a b****r getting into the footwell to take out the pedal....!
Good piece of work and write-up.
But maybe an unnecessary effort--I solved the same problem by adjusting the pedal height/position in the car along with the effective throttle cable length (adjustable at the engine attachment point). That way the pedal can be lowered without sacrificing throttle opening. FWIW, I also was able to get better heel-and-toe operation (for my small shoes) by moving the brake pedal closer to the throttle pedal.
But maybe an unnecessary effort--I solved the same problem by adjusting the pedal height/position in the car along with the effective throttle cable length (adjustable at the engine attachment point). That way the pedal can be lowered without sacrificing throttle opening. FWIW, I also was able to get better heel-and-toe operation (for my small shoes) by moving the brake pedal closer to the throttle pedal.
Can you give me a little more info on what you did to get the same effect. If you reduce the arc that the pedal travels through at one end (in the footwell) you reduce the amount of throttle cable being pulled at the engine end and hence the arc through which the throttle rotates. Are you saying that the `final` arc of this travel at the engine end does nothing? In other words full throttle is achieved in an un-modified/tweaked car before the full pedal travel happens and the final movement does nothing? With what you have done - if I understand it correctly - when the pedal is fully depressed you should be able to go to the rear and still turn the throttle `pulley` through more of an arc (creating slack in the cable). I think I might be missing something here.
BobE said:
Can you give me a little more info on what you did to get the same effect. If you reduce the arc that the pedal travels through at one end (in the footwell) you reduce the amount of throttle cable being pulled at the engine end and hence the arc through which the throttle rotates. Are you saying that the `final` arc of this travel at the engine end does nothing? In other words full throttle is achieved in an un-modified/tweaked car before the full pedal travel happens and the final movement does nothing? With what you have done - if I understand it correctly - when the pedal is fully depressed you should be able to go to the rear and still turn the throttle `pulley` through more of an arc (creating slack in the cable). I think I might be missing something here.
I think what JLSELAN is talking about is effectively shortening the outer cable via adjustment on the throttle body thus giving the throttle pedal a slightly lower position whilst still maintaining full throttle plate movement.I did this on my M400 to try and get the "heel toe" height correct, I think your solution is however more adjustable to "taste" as it were.
F.C.
Thanks guys for the explanations. Maybe I`m being thick - no comments please - but I did consider doing what I think you describe. If I lower the pedal position by adjusting the bolt that that forms the return stop on the pedal (that sets the un-depressed position) I then end up with a smaller angle through which the pedal moves before it touches the carpet on the front bulkhead. This in turn means less inner cable is pulled through the outer tube when the pedal is fully depressed. I can adjust both the position of the outer cable termination on the plate above the engine and the nipple position on the pulley attached to throttle valve - but I can`t recover the lost motion of the inner cable. On my car the set up is such that any reduction in the movement of the inner cable means I don`t get the full movement between the throttle being fully closed and fully open. I can reset the the fully closed position but I won`t get the throttle to go fully open unless the pedal can be depressed more - which it can`t because it`s buried in the carpet. Make sense???
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