Dyno results !!
Discussion
2003 GTO-3R, Bog standard. Portofino Blue for those who saw it. I do need a new rear near side wheel. Looked pretty buckled....apparantley 4th one that day on 3r??!! But thats another thread...
340bhp @ 6100 rpm
350lb ft @ 3800 rpm
Max 0.72 boost
98 Ron
Nice smooth power and torque curves.....well happy!
340bhp @ 6100 rpm
350lb ft @ 3800 rpm
Max 0.72 boost
98 Ron
Nice smooth power and torque curves.....well happy!
stewey said:
2003 GTO-3R, Bog standard. Portofino Blue for those who saw it. I do need a new rear near side wheel. Looked pretty buckled....apparantley 4th one that day on 3r??!! But thats another thread...
340bhp @ 6100 rpm
350lb ft @ 3800 rpm
Max 0.72 boost
98 Ron
Nice smooth power and torque curves.....well happy!
What did the curve look like between 6100 and 7200?340bhp @ 6100 rpm
350lb ft @ 3800 rpm
Max 0.72 boost
98 Ron
Nice smooth power and torque curves.....well happy!
caccobra said:
stewey said:
2003 GTO-3R, Bog standard. Portofino Blue for those who saw it. I do need a new rear near side wheel. Looked pretty buckled....apparantley 4th one that day on 3r??!! But thats another thread...
340bhp @ 6100 rpm
350lb ft @ 3800 rpm
Max 0.72 boost
98 Ron
Nice smooth power and torque curves.....well happy!
What did the curve look like between 6100 and 7200?340bhp @ 6100 rpm
350lb ft @ 3800 rpm
Max 0.72 boost
98 Ron
Nice smooth power and torque curves.....well happy!
Mike. ;-)
Mike Tuckwood said:
caccobra said:
stewey said:
2003 GTO-3R, Bog standard. Portofino Blue for those who saw it. I do need a new rear near side wheel. Looked pretty buckled....apparantley 4th one that day on 3r??!! But thats another thread...
340bhp @ 6100 rpm
350lb ft @ 3800 rpm
Max 0.72 boost
98 Ron
Nice smooth power and torque curves.....well happy!
What did the curve look like between 6100 and 7200?340bhp @ 6100 rpm
350lb ft @ 3800 rpm
Max 0.72 boost
98 Ron
Nice smooth power and torque curves.....well happy!
Mike. ;-)
The factory mapping is far from perfect and leaves a lot on the table,partially because of the stock exhaust limitations and partially because of factory budget constraints during development. You cannot get the same tuning results with a stock exhaust system on the car. It's always going to be fighting you above 6,000 rpm. We have 3R's here that are easily at 480+ bhp just by changing the exhaust and remapping at only running at 1 bar of boost on 91 octane fuel. M400's are at 530+bhp. We also have cars running at even higher boost levels and higher bhp, but you can't get there with the stock exhaust unless you beef up the valvetrain first and run higher boost than is required with a true dual exhaust. That's harder on the engine than it needs to be.
Without the stock exhaust and with a proper remap, there is no drop off in power above 6,000 rpm. It holds boost and power all the way to redline and it becomes a totally different car. If you ever get a chance to experience it as we have, you will understand.
TuxMan said:
Hi caccobra , one thing Mike did NOT do was offer anyone a disservice !!! in fact he and his team gave up a sunday to support a group of Noble owners !!! and gave some very good honest advice , i will put up some graphs later on in the meantime can you please keep this thread ontrack !!!!
I think this is on track with a tuning thread. Opening his shop on a Sunday to attract new customers is a smart business decision. Telling you that you don't need a remap after changing to a true dual exhaust is a disservice to you and bad advice, IMO, based on exyensive testing and experience that preceeds what you are doing. There is no need for anyone to reinvent the wheel on this. It is a well known fact here regarding the stock exhaust. He actually told you that your AFR is off now so that should tell you something.The good news is that your car now has a LOT more potential than it did before. At the relatively low stock boost level that you and others are at now, you may be able to get away without a remap as long as you keep the rpms under 6,000 rpm as most of you are used to doing anyhow (because of the falloff in power above that). However, it is not a good idea to leave it like that. The MBE ECU cannot adapt to the change in exhaust flow and you are not taking full advantage of what that improved flow can do for you in terms of more linear power and smoother power throughout the powerband. A remap by a knowledgeable Noble tuner can easily provide that to you now that you have changed the exhaust.
Please, don't shoot the messenger. It's a bit frustrating to continually hear that many UK owners are not getting as much out of their cars as we are in the US. I'm just trying to pass that ownership experience along so that you can begin to question some of this, just as we did here 3-4 years ago. I'd hate to see you not take advantage of your new exhaust system. It is very similar in design to the one I now have on my car.
The difference you will experience after a proper remap will amaze you. A knowledgeable Noble tuner can now safely increase the boost to 1.0 bar on your car with a remap and it will hold that boost all the way to redline (7,200 rpm, not 6,000). Drive someone's car that has already done this, if you get a chance and you will understand that what I am telling you and others is true.
Edited by caccobra on Monday 20th April 13:23
What have you guys on the other side of the pond found re transmission?
With that much power are you using LSD's, uprated clutch and 'boxes?
I'm very interested in the upgraded exhausts and re-map but would wonder what would break next. I have a Quaife LSD, but (to my knowledge) an otherwise standard 5 speed box.
For what it's worth I think we can all learn from each other, will no-one think of the children!!
With that much power are you using LSD's, uprated clutch and 'boxes?
I'm very interested in the upgraded exhausts and re-map but would wonder what would break next. I have a Quaife LSD, but (to my knowledge) an otherwise standard 5 speed box.
For what it's worth I think we can all learn from each other, will no-one think of the children!!
My car's peak power happens at 6600rpm with a dual exhaust and remap. You wouldn't want to rev it much past that driving it though as the power drops off. It will still hold good boost pressure until 7000rpm.
I think all tuners over here know the score regarding the noble. It is good to see tuners new to the noble trying their stuff aswell though. A good tuner should be able to tune any car given the right hardware. Nothing wrong with going through and confirming all the cars common failings either, you never know, something new may turn up.
I'm sure there are short cuts you can make to save money(ie no remap with a dual exhaust) which may work fine on the road if not tested to the limits. I'd rather it be ready for whatever I can throw at it and not have to worry.
I think all tuners over here know the score regarding the noble. It is good to see tuners new to the noble trying their stuff aswell though. A good tuner should be able to tune any car given the right hardware. Nothing wrong with going through and confirming all the cars common failings either, you never know, something new may turn up.
I'm sure there are short cuts you can make to save money(ie no remap with a dual exhaust) which may work fine on the road if not tested to the limits. I'd rather it be ready for whatever I can throw at it and not have to worry.
Duke Thrust said:
What have you guys on the other side of the pond found re transmission?
With that much power are you using LSD's, uprated clutch and 'boxes?
I'm very interested in the upgraded exhausts and re-map but would wonder what would break next. I have a Quaife LSD, but (to my knowledge) an otherwise standard 5 speed box.
For what it's worth I think we can all learn from each other, will no-one think of the children!!
We do not have experience with the 5-speed used in the early cars. That was never available in the US. I do understand that it has been problematic though. Keep in mind that the original cars it was used on were in the 150-200 hp range with some margin of durbility. Asking it to work on a 300+bhp car may be too much. That is why many, like yourself added the Quaife unit to those transmissions. That seems to make the 5-speed transaxle more durable.With that much power are you using LSD's, uprated clutch and 'boxes?
I'm very interested in the upgraded exhausts and re-map but would wonder what would break next. I have a Quaife LSD, but (to my knowledge) an otherwise standard 5 speed box.
For what it's worth I think we can all learn from each other, will no-one think of the children!!
We have found that as long as you aren't slamming gears like a drag racer, the stock Quaife 6 speed transaxle (that's all we have here in the US) can handle up to 450 ft. lbs. of torque at the wheels. Those that have gone beyond that usually also opt for a beefed up transmission and clutch as part of their upgrade planning. The stock chassis is also a limiting factor when making power improvements. You do not want to overpower the chassis as this will result in a car that is difficult to drive. We believe that if you do not want to get into modifying the chassis for larger wheels and tires, you should look to keep power at or below 410whp (at the wheels) for a 3R and at or below 450 whp for an M400. Anything more than that seems to be watsed on a stock chassis, since you can't really put it to good use without larger tires (and the necessary chassis mods that go along with that).
I have opted to stay within the stock chassis limits on my car, because Lee Noble's chassis is perfect, IMHO and I didn't want to mess with it's handling and balance.
One other thing that requires mentioning is that all Nobles should have their fuel pumps and wiring upgraded at the same time that you are upgrading to a dual exhaust. The factory wiring is run through the ECU as a shared circuit and the wires are really too small going to the fuel pump. This has caused engine stalling as the voltage to the fuel pump isn't always enough. It also increases the chances of fuel supply leaning out at high rpm. Here in the US we run power directly from the positive terminal on the starter relay and use an added fuel pump relay with larger wires. We also upgrade to the M400 fuel pump on 3R's as part of the exhaust upgrade. I know many Noble owners are aware of the fuel pump wiring issue, but it bears repeating for those that are new to the car. Roush made it part of their exhaust upgrade package for the same reasons.
Edited by caccobra on Monday 20th April 16:40
Edited by caccobra on Monday 20th April 16:43
Edited by caccobra on Monday 20th April 16:44
Mike Tuckwood said:
david.mt said:
I wasn't at the dyno day but I have a graph of my M400 from Noble Motorsport which suggests peak power of 475bhp at 6632 rpm.
One of the guys who came yesterday ran at JNM then ran on our dyno. JNM Dyno reported 485BHP, Ours read 416BHP. Mike
stewey said:
2003 GTO-3R, Bog standard. Portofino Blue for those who saw it. I do need a new rear near side wheel. Looked pretty buckled....apparantley 4th one that day on 3r??!! But thats another thread...
340bhp @ 6100 rpm
350lb ft @ 3800 rpm
Max 0.72 boost
98 Ron
Nice smooth power and torque curves.....well happy!
My car on the dyno...thanks again to Mike and Area52!340bhp @ 6100 rpm
350lb ft @ 3800 rpm
Max 0.72 boost
98 Ron
Nice smooth power and torque curves.....well happy!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULa6a8ipyIE
Mike Tuckwood said:
david.mt said:
I wasn't at the dyno day but I have a graph of my M400 from Noble Motorsport which suggests peak power of 475bhp at 6632 rpm.
One of the guys who came yesterday ran at JNM then ran on our dyno. JNM Dyno reported 485BHP, Ours read 416BHP. Mike
. I was more interested in the peak RPM. I certainly know that whatever power it has at the moment it is much quicker to 100mph than my 997TT which in regular road/track use is the most important bit 
stewey said:
My car on the dyno...thanks again to Mike and Area52!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULa6a8ipyIE
And not a buckled wheel in sight www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULa6a8ipyIE
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