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Oh ha funny, well then Adrian with your expertise you will know that if you put an old GTO3 on the rolling road it will probably only be pulling less than 310bhp, so finding an old M400 pulling 361bhp it is all relevant, not to mention the other upgrades on suspension and transmission from a GTO3 to M400 and you being an expert should know that, i am new to these forums but i am not a noob to the Noble forums where i showed how to design a removable strut properly to remove the transmission and maintain the strength of full moment conmnections, to avoid re welding and creating abrittle frature of the heat affected zone and Paul Cundy is currently using that design for a current project.
I think we have all got off on the wrong footing, lets start fresh, respect earns respect, i dont think i deserved those comments trying to shoot me down, i think you will find i am quite informative and helpful, if given a chance.
I think we have all got off on the wrong footing, lets start fresh, respect earns respect, i dont think i deserved those comments trying to shoot me down, i think you will find i am quite informative and helpful, if given a chance.
Edited by Urbalizer on Tuesday 6th October 18:10
I'm not sure what the point is here, this is not true for all new M400 surely, are you saying this is the case?
You found a bad egg!
Look, i love Nobles, and this is a Noble forum so why i got such a contemptuous response is beyond me, i never said anything which was not fact, Mike tells me he has found lots of M400 running at less than 400, even 380, so lets say the M400 that raced against the Lemans Gt40 was running at 361, then surely that makes the brand even better seen as though it unofficially lapped in 1min21ish against the Gt40.
I got a response as if i had come in here bad mouthing Nobles, am i missing something?
I know the story about the weak maps, Peter Dibble spent hours telling me the history.
Nothing a quick remap with Darren can't sort out, when the M400 went round the Fifth gear track it stripped seconds off the FQ400, so again if it was running at 361 then again surely you are argueing with me not against, you are saying the M400 at the correct power is even more awesome of a racing machine.
Yes i got sarcastic with Adrian, asking if he even owned a Noble, because his comment was just completely irrelevant to the thread, and just to make a point that somebody who obviously loves the brand, why would they be arguing against me, when i was just stating a fact, is was not an M400 that set 1min25.
Think i will just go back to the Noble forums where threads just get a civil response, instead of all this feather fluffing, seems there are some issues on here, a Noble forum where all you do is slag off the brand, hmm? Some club thing going on? good luck with all the back slapping.
You found a bad egg!
Look, i love Nobles, and this is a Noble forum so why i got such a contemptuous response is beyond me, i never said anything which was not fact, Mike tells me he has found lots of M400 running at less than 400, even 380, so lets say the M400 that raced against the Lemans Gt40 was running at 361, then surely that makes the brand even better seen as though it unofficially lapped in 1min21ish against the Gt40.
I got a response as if i had come in here bad mouthing Nobles, am i missing something?
I know the story about the weak maps, Peter Dibble spent hours telling me the history.
Nothing a quick remap with Darren can't sort out, when the M400 went round the Fifth gear track it stripped seconds off the FQ400, so again if it was running at 361 then again surely you are argueing with me not against, you are saying the M400 at the correct power is even more awesome of a racing machine.
Yes i got sarcastic with Adrian, asking if he even owned a Noble, because his comment was just completely irrelevant to the thread, and just to make a point that somebody who obviously loves the brand, why would they be arguing against me, when i was just stating a fact, is was not an M400 that set 1min25.
Think i will just go back to the Noble forums where threads just get a civil response, instead of all this feather fluffing, seems there are some issues on here, a Noble forum where all you do is slag off the brand, hmm? Some club thing going on? good luck with all the back slapping.
Chris, the point is very few of the M400's even got close to the numbers, I only know of two that got above 400bhp, if Noble gave TG a car it will be running a high boost map and would fail very quickly(as most of the press cars did) The sales brochure was a work of fiction.
They are great cars and great value, but they are not the cars that Noble claimed they were.
However they can be made into the car they always should have been.
They are great cars and great value, but they are not the cars that Noble claimed they were.
However they can be made into the car they always should have been.
Urbalizer said:
Think i will just go back to the Noble forums where threads just get a civil response, instead of all this feather fluffing, seems there are some issues on here, a Noble forum where all you do is slag off the brand, hmm? Some club thing going on? good luck with all the back slapping.
I have to take issue here. There is a good mix of guys here; some have been around since year dot, some less so, and some even lesser so. Whilst there is some piss taking, some sarcasm and a bit of joking around, there is also a wealth of information to be had.We have contributions from arguably the most experienced mapper of Nobles in the UK. We have guys who have had engines break on them, and guys who have broken engines. We have guys who have raced full seasons in their Nobles.
If we all came on and said nothing but how great Nobles were it would be a short lived forum.
Al cars, especially handbuilt, low volume cars have faults. Without identifying them, discussing them and banding around ideas, they will remain as faults.
I think it's also fair to add that the Noble tuners who take most flak are those who seem to produce out of ordinary results, yet choose not to join in here. So its natural thet they should be seen in some doubt sometimes.
So whilst there may appear to be some "feather fluffing", and a bit of baiting, this forum is the best.
Ok sorry Guys I got a bit hot headed there 
, i do understand and agree with what you are saying, i know the valve springs need upgrading due to a floating issue at high rpm and cam timing restriction etc..
It is a shame, that they got weak maps in the UK.
I have been Noble owner since 2003, and am addicted to upgrading these things, your right , you get a base model and then you make it into the car that it shoulsd always have been.
I would love to get a chance to meet up with all the UK Noble owners and see what other people have done to their cars, are there any meets before the End of November, because after then i ship it back to Cyprus, to take on an island or tuned civics and Evo's, thats my only problem it is the only one ever shipped to Cyprus, so everbody wants to challenge the Noble and they all say to me ahh 1min25 an Evo is faster, lol, it has been doing my head in.
I have a custom made intercooler, 25% more volume but 50% more cooling area,it gets 48deg hear in summer and after thrashing the car for custom made 3" dual exhaust which the workmanship is just excellent, some excellent aero mods to the rear clam which made a massive difference to under bonnet temperatures, which i believe i am the first person to do this mod, here is a link to the pic below, i believe it also reduces drag although i can not prove it.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll296/da_urb/SA...
You would not believe the hot air that escapes out of these slots in the primary wing when stood, i have triple heat shield under the intercooler box, this is an old pic above though, i have meshed up above the diffuser since then looks a lot neater, the vents to the rear wheel arches divert too much air from entering through the wheel arch into the exhaust area, as there was a greater force of air entering from the wheel arch, stalling the air flow from the engine bay.I just concentrated on letting more hot air out of the engine bay rather than trying to got more air in.
So you know i would like to stick around and exchange tips and get advice from you all, i'm not a know it all by any means, i am always seeking advice, but i can be a bit pedantic as you have witnessed, i.e. obsessed by detail, so sorry for that, i promise i wont get so wound up again
, i do understand and agree with what you are saying, i know the valve springs need upgrading due to a floating issue at high rpm and cam timing restriction etc..It is a shame, that they got weak maps in the UK.
I have been Noble owner since 2003, and am addicted to upgrading these things, your right , you get a base model and then you make it into the car that it shoulsd always have been.
I would love to get a chance to meet up with all the UK Noble owners and see what other people have done to their cars, are there any meets before the End of November, because after then i ship it back to Cyprus, to take on an island or tuned civics and Evo's, thats my only problem it is the only one ever shipped to Cyprus, so everbody wants to challenge the Noble and they all say to me ahh 1min25 an Evo is faster, lol, it has been doing my head in.
I have a custom made intercooler, 25% more volume but 50% more cooling area,it gets 48deg hear in summer and after thrashing the car for custom made 3" dual exhaust which the workmanship is just excellent, some excellent aero mods to the rear clam which made a massive difference to under bonnet temperatures, which i believe i am the first person to do this mod, here is a link to the pic below, i believe it also reduces drag although i can not prove it.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll296/da_urb/SA...
You would not believe the hot air that escapes out of these slots in the primary wing when stood, i have triple heat shield under the intercooler box, this is an old pic above though, i have meshed up above the diffuser since then looks a lot neater, the vents to the rear wheel arches divert too much air from entering through the wheel arch into the exhaust area, as there was a greater force of air entering from the wheel arch, stalling the air flow from the engine bay.I just concentrated on letting more hot air out of the engine bay rather than trying to got more air in.
So you know i would like to stick around and exchange tips and get advice from you all, i'm not a know it all by any means, i am always seeking advice, but i can be a bit pedantic as you have witnessed, i.e. obsessed by detail, so sorry for that, i promise i wont get so wound up again
Thats a nice post, and your car looks interesting, would like to see more pix.I also think you maybe VERY surprised at what some on here have done with their cars, and also what some are doing at present.I'm looking forward to some interesting debates/ comparisions now everything is a bit calmer!Where did you get all your mods done, want to list them all?
Edited by sjc on Tuesday 6th October 21:04
Mal Davidsons race car had similar rear cutouts 3 years ago.
I'm suprised you don't run water or water/meth to help with the intake temps if you plan to drive it in such a hot climate as the intake temps will never get near to the ambient temps even with a big i/c so your map is backing out
the performance from 40 degs, what are the typical intake temps you see in comparison to the ambient temps out there ?
Steve
I'm suprised you don't run water or water/meth to help with the intake temps if you plan to drive it in such a hot climate as the intake temps will never get near to the ambient temps even with a big i/c so your map is backing out
the performance from 40 degs, what are the typical intake temps you see in comparison to the ambient temps out there ?
Steve
I suspect they measured the engine on an engine dyno rather than in the car... so it was missing bits like the air con, exhaust etc etc.
This is a trick that Ultimas fall into... you get an engine dyno proving 526bhp (in my case) but you loose 40bhp when you use the restrictive headers... by the time youve added air con pump and the rest of the exhaust system youve lost 60bhp.
But you do have an engine capable of 526bhp... just not if you fit the std bits which reduce the power!
This is a trick that Ultimas fall into... you get an engine dyno proving 526bhp (in my case) but you loose 40bhp when you use the restrictive headers... by the time youve added air con pump and the rest of the exhaust system youve lost 60bhp.
But you do have an engine capable of 526bhp... just not if you fit the std bits which reduce the power!
andygtt said:
I suspect they measured the engine on an engine dyno rather than in the car... so it was missing bits like the air con, exhaust etc etc.
This is a trick that Ultimas fall into... you get an engine dyno proving 526bhp (in my case) but you loose 40bhp when you use the restrictive headers... by the time youve added air con pump and the rest of the exhaust system youve lost 60bhp.
But you do have an engine capable of 526bhp... just not if you fit the std bits which reduce the power!
its very common to see an engine tuned on the engine dyno fail to make the power on the chassis dyno - usually due to the manufacturers cutting costs and fitting less than ideal exhausts/inlets/cats, i was involved in a similar situation with a major manufacturer recently - perfect engine dyno plot, but massive dip in torque when fitted to the car This is a trick that Ultimas fall into... you get an engine dyno proving 526bhp (in my case) but you loose 40bhp when you use the restrictive headers... by the time youve added air con pump and the rest of the exhaust system youve lost 60bhp.
But you do have an engine capable of 526bhp... just not if you fit the std bits which reduce the power!
Ahh somsomebody else has made the same cut outs on the rear wing,I guess that means i am not crazy then all the guys at pretige cars thought i was crazy when i set about it with a cutting tool, they were just looking on with expressions of horror.
Is there a thread on these forums where all members post their pics or are they just scattered around in different threads? I use my Noble as an everyday car, so i try to mod with comfort in mind rather than full blown performance, i.e. i made my exhaust as quiet as possible, and added extra sound proofing to the cabin, if anybody else is like this and wants to hear less engine and gearbox noise, fill the cills with loft insulation, they act like great big resonating chambers when empty and it doesnt add any significant weight, the sound i love to hear is the hiss of the Turbo's, so i moved the air intakes from the IC box to the front air scoops right behind the ear, i think this helped with getting better air flow to the I/C also.
I seriously thought about water injection, but i got John from Jp Motis on the island to do a diagnosics, he put sensors all over the car and plugged in with the noble1.3 diagnostics software with the his headphones on etc.. and we drove it about for 1/2 hour giving it some stick, he was impressed by the cars performance in those conditions, because all the Evo owners can only come out at night, it was about 42deg that afternoon in August, the IC was doing a very good job, the only problem was when the water temp got up to a reading of 96 on the laptop, the readings started going wild, jumping up and down,but we stopped and the car wasn't over heating? Is that a faulty water temp sensor?
The problem over here is car modifications are not allowed, so anything has to be discreet, if i get pulled up and they see any pipes or injectors connected into the air intake going to a tank, they will take the car off me for months until i can prove it was not a performance upgrade or NOS, only a cooling mod, even then they will argue it still improves performance, even though we all know it doesnt it just stops a loss of performance, crazy i know, but this is what i am up against. They took my friends car because it had a non standard ECU, seriously, they did not even check the map to see if the power had been upgraded, he got it back but it took months, one thing i have in my favour is that they do not know what is standard and what is not on a Noble.
I am coming back to the UK tomorrow to see over the final mods to the car, i will take some pics and post them on a different thread, but most mods can not be seen, all the fine detail like changing every screw to S/S, upgrading all the coolant pipes and turbo hoses etc..putting anti vibration pads on all the heat shields,I did quite a nice mod to the the I/C box sealing it properly from the rest of the engine compartment and wrapping in heat reflective material with triple heat shields under, again this was custom made by myself, it definately made a difference, before it would burn me if i touched the I/C box, now it doesnt even get warm, the S/S exhaust is fully wrapped etc..
Also any ideas about how to get better cooling in the tunnel? seems to get pretty hot in there and i think is my weak link with cooling at the moment, on the Noble forums they just say block it off at the engine bay but i just do not like the idea of that.
all the guys at pretige cars thought i was crazy when i set about it with a cutting tool, they were just looking on with expressions of horror.Is there a thread on these forums where all members post their pics or are they just scattered around in different threads? I use my Noble as an everyday car, so i try to mod with comfort in mind rather than full blown performance, i.e. i made my exhaust as quiet as possible, and added extra sound proofing to the cabin, if anybody else is like this and wants to hear less engine and gearbox noise, fill the cills with loft insulation, they act like great big resonating chambers when empty and it doesnt add any significant weight, the sound i love to hear is the hiss of the Turbo's, so i moved the air intakes from the IC box to the front air scoops right behind the ear, i think this helped with getting better air flow to the I/C also.
I seriously thought about water injection, but i got John from Jp Motis on the island to do a diagnosics, he put sensors all over the car and plugged in with the noble1.3 diagnostics software with the his headphones on etc.. and we drove it about for 1/2 hour giving it some stick, he was impressed by the cars performance in those conditions, because all the Evo owners can only come out at night, it was about 42deg that afternoon in August, the IC was doing a very good job, the only problem was when the water temp got up to a reading of 96 on the laptop, the readings started going wild, jumping up and down,but we stopped and the car wasn't over heating? Is that a faulty water temp sensor?
The problem over here is car modifications are not allowed, so anything has to be discreet, if i get pulled up and they see any pipes or injectors connected into the air intake going to a tank, they will take the car off me for months until i can prove it was not a performance upgrade or NOS, only a cooling mod, even then they will argue it still improves performance, even though we all know it doesnt it just stops a loss of performance, crazy i know, but this is what i am up against. They took my friends car because it had a non standard ECU, seriously, they did not even check the map to see if the power had been upgraded, he got it back but it took months, one thing i have in my favour is that they do not know what is standard and what is not on a Noble.
I am coming back to the UK tomorrow to see over the final mods to the car, i will take some pics and post them on a different thread, but most mods can not be seen, all the fine detail like changing every screw to S/S, upgrading all the coolant pipes and turbo hoses etc..putting anti vibration pads on all the heat shields,I did quite a nice mod to the the I/C box sealing it properly from the rest of the engine compartment and wrapping in heat reflective material with triple heat shields under, again this was custom made by myself, it definately made a difference, before it would burn me if i touched the I/C box, now it doesnt even get warm, the S/S exhaust is fully wrapped etc..
Also any ideas about how to get better cooling in the tunnel? seems to get pretty hot in there and i think is my weak link with cooling at the moment, on the Noble forums they just say block it off at the engine bay but i just do not like the idea of that.
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