Passing the Time

[mgbond]

A bit bored and if Oz doesn't happen for another couple of years then I want to spend some money on the car.

M12 GTO 2.5.

Already have aftermarket ECU and a charge cooler set up (not yet installed).

LSD, TDS, only other thing is tunnel mod and floor sealing to do.

So if I had 5k to spend on the engine (this would included removing/replace), what could I do? and what could I achieve?

Have the 3ltr exhaust so aware that this will need to be changed at some point but lets not include that for now.

I would like 400BHP, what would it need to be for 400 WHP (450??) Think that might be too much, would like to keep boost still under 1 bar.


Bondy

Edited by mgbond on Tuesday 12th January 23:39

[TuxMan]

Hi bondy , have you updated the gearbox ?? Also with engine out you could upgrade valve spring and turbo's ready for remapp.

[mgbond]

The box is only 3yrs old but I could shot peen (don't know the spelling) it. Just checked back on Owens thread a few years ago and JEMs rebuilt his engine for 3k, turbo recon was about... sod here it is:

Engine £4,390
Engine Rebuild
full strip and rebuild, new rods, crank ground, rings, ported, seats etc, etc, etc,
(JEMS race engineering, Daventry.)
£3,080
Turbo Rebuild x 2
(Turbo Technics, Northampton.)
£517
Various oil lines, new gear change cables, new clutch
(Noble - Factory.)
£460
25L Millers running in oil, 25L 10/40 + 5 filters
(Northampton Motorsport)
£333

Exhaust £716
Tubes, Flanges & Gaskets
(Jetex)
£113
Silencers
(Jetex)
£97
Hi Flow Cats
(Jetex)
£506

Extras £1,818
Fire Extinguisher, Ducting, Heat Mat
(Rally Design)
£404
Oil Cooler, Hose & Fittings
(Mocal)
£201
Defi Display, Control unit, Sensors & Looms
(Envy)
£613
Tools, Welder, Engine Crane
(Mainly Ebay!)
£600

Not interested in fitting oil cooler or the extras. just engine rebuild stronger (maybe box strengthened) and turbos reconditioned. Like the idea of copying the exaust.

Bondy

Edited by mgbond on Tuesday 12th January 23:40

[Gadgeroonie]

pull then engine out

fit new bearings, oil pump and low comp pistons and valve springs

convert it to a single turbo - GT30 or GT35 would be my choice

Edited by Gadgeroonie on Wednesday 13th January 10:03

[mgbond]

Gadgeroonie said:

pull then engine out

fit new bearings, oil pump and low comp pistons and valve springs

convert it to a single turbo - GT30 or GT35 would be my choice

Edited by Gadgeroonie on Wednesday 13th January 10:03

Suppose changing the water pump might be a good idea also. Think I would stick to the twin turbo.

What do you think the engine would produce?

Bondy

[Gadgeroonie]

it depends on the turbo's

[ThatPhilBrettGuy]

Gadgeroonie said:

convert it to a single turbo - GT30 or GT35 would be my choice

What, within the budget?

[Gadgeroonie]

it depends who does the labour

converting to a single turbo is pretty easy - take a pipe from where the old manifold bolts to the turbo and tee them together to a collector roughly where the old turbo was placed

if you can get to see a turbo technics conversion for a tvr, its the same principle - my uncle converted his tvr and welded it up himself

i know plenty of exhaust fabricators that could do this


(there is already a single turbo M12 in the UK, the guy welded it up himself)

[mgbond]

I will stick with std set-up and recon the turbos. If I did whats suggested what would I bee loking at power wise and not running more than 1bar. Also what do we think the box will take?

Bondy

[chuntington101]

Off topic, but as people are talking about single turbos, these guys can suply a kit.

http://www.turbohoses.com/nobledarthvader.htm

Is Hoover from the Noble Forums company. a few guys in the states are running them. Supposed to reduce under clip temps and oil temps conciderably.

Think the kits normally come with GT35RS turbos, thats probalby enough for 600bhp! i think they can do larger units though. Be nice to see what a twin scroll GT42RS could make!

Chris.

[Gadgeroonie]

my advice Bondy is to sell the car and buy a 3.0 with a 6 speed box

the 5 speed box will always be limited on power, by the time you have done everything you want to - you might as well have bought another car

[F.C.]

Not really worth shot peening an already "worn" box IMO.

[Gadgeroonie]

chuntington101 said:

Think the kits normally come with GT35RS turbos, thats probalby enough for 600bhp! i think they can do larger units though. Be nice to see what a twin scroll GT42RS could make!

Chris.

about 850 hp depending on the spec of the GT42RS

[daddysumo]

Gadgeroonie said:

chuntington101 said:

Think the kits normally come with GT35RS turbos, thats probalby enough for 600bhp! i think they can do larger units though. Be nice to see what a twin scroll GT42RS could make!

Chris.

about 850 hp depending on the spec of the GT42RS

All you have to sort out then is the grip to use it !

[chuntington101]

daddysumo said:

Gadgeroonie said:

chuntington101 said:

Think the kits normally come with GT35RS turbos, thats probalby enough for 600bhp! i think they can do larger units though. Be nice to see what a twin scroll GT42RS could make!

Chris.

about 850 hp depending on the spec of the GT42RS

All you have to sort out then is the grip to use it !

Very true! I'm sure a aftermarket traction control setup and 'boost by gear' boost controler could help.

Personally think a Garrett T40Z would be a much better choice. Spool would be alot faster and they still make more than enough power.

Gadgeroonie, the GT42rs should be pushing more than that if its a 4202. Also have you got any more info on the single turbo guy in the UK? be intresting to see what he did and where hit located things.

Cheers

chris.

[daddysumo]

chuntington101 said:

daddysumo said:

Gadgeroonie said:

chuntington101 said:

Think the kits normally come with GT35RS turbos, thats probalby enough for 600bhp! i think they can do larger units though. Be nice to see what a twin scroll GT42RS could make!

Chris.

about 850 hp depending on the spec of the GT42RS

All you have to sort out then is the grip to use it !

Very true! I'm sure a aftermarket traction control setup and 'boost by gear' boost controler could help.



Cheers

chris.

Ah interesting... in which gear do you think you could use the full boost and all that torque without spinning the wheels

[Gadgeroonie]

Daddy sumo is correct

loads of power and 2wd is never a good idea

all the 3.0 skylines i know that run the GT42 are dragsters and have to do a burnout to warm the tyres up for one run


the traction / boost control only reduce power till you make grip again

a GT35 will struggle to produce over 650 bhp which is probably going to be ok in a noble, but 850 bhp is too much imho

a gt 37/40 is probably a better bet


however the Gt35 is a good turbo and a good compromise and happy to run 300 - 500 hp well within is efficiency range

[mgbond]

That's all great but too much for me to consider (although my ecu does have all the options to do this).

If I do what gadge suggests with the engine what power to you think I could get and what do we think the gearbox could take (5spd).

Bondy

[ThatPhilBrettGuy]

mgbond said:

That's all great but too much for me to consider (although my ecu does have all the options to do this).

If I do what gadge suggests with the engine what power to you think I could get and what do we think the gearbox could take (5spd).

Bondy

Well, if you rewind to 2002/3 when the 340bhp Noble approved upgrade for the 2.5 was coming out, their were wringing their hands as to if it could take that...

[TuxMan]

Nobody realy knows what the 5 speed will take its the diff thats the week spot !! The gearbox man said they had hardley ever seen broken gears and have never had a failuer on a worked box !!!i,m hoping to put 500bhp through mine with a limit of 450lbft of torque .......ask me next year wether it is ok !!!