Discussion
....
, definately gonna need some pics.
I still don't get how he is going to support them with 1 3rd party dealer.
he quoted no staff, he then quoted the m12 got out of hand and there were to many and he had 10 or so dealers.
the figures state there were a bout 1000 M12's over 7 years of build.
Lee then states he wants to make 100 a year so he will soon be upto high numbers again but this time with no support.
He cleary lacks any business skills and support skills or seems not to care much about them. (so it seems)
the car will clearly have teathing issues with no where to get them put right, which is quite scary.
I did post the question on the Fenix site, but am still not happy with the answer I got
http://www.fenixautomotive.com/showthread.php?64-B...
this quote is not an answer
"A great advantage of using the GM standard motors is there are a lot of people who already know how to service these"
IF he does not have his own unit or engineers it's a poor show and will not work out. you will soon have a lot of owners with issues which could takes months and months to sort out.
he quoted no staff, he then quoted the m12 got out of hand and there were to many and he had 10 or so dealers.
the figures state there were a bout 1000 M12's over 7 years of build.
Lee then states he wants to make 100 a year so he will soon be upto high numbers again but this time with no support.
He cleary lacks any business skills and support skills or seems not to care much about them. (so it seems)
the car will clearly have teathing issues with no where to get them put right, which is quite scary.
I did post the question on the Fenix site, but am still not happy with the answer I got
http://www.fenixautomotive.com/showthread.php?64-B...
this quote is not an answer
"A great advantage of using the GM standard motors is there are a lot of people who already know how to service these"
IF he does not have his own unit or engineers it's a poor show and will not work out. you will soon have a lot of owners with issues which could takes months and months to sort out.
Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 21st January 09:49
Well that guy also said "This doesn't mean we won't have any aftersales support network. We will ensure there is support in place and we are talking to people about this." and in some of the other interviews with Lee he makes out he wants to make things more customer centric etc etc - obviously that wouldn't work if we were all miffed with our cars and I doubt they're that dumb ;-). They got to have somewhere to service cars and deal with issues.
If it lives up to expectations I don't think they'll have trouble finding people wanting to service the things and if they've learned by mistakes there should be a lot less issues in the first place (ps: my floor pan is corroding to hell lol).
They're talking about second half of this year for the press car so I'm guessing we probably wouldn't be able to get our hands on one until 2011, hopefully enough time for them to sort their aftersales out...
If it lives up to expectations I don't think they'll have trouble finding people wanting to service the things and if they've learned by mistakes there should be a lot less issues in the first place (ps: my floor pan is corroding to hell lol).
They're talking about second half of this year for the press car so I'm guessing we probably wouldn't be able to get our hands on one until 2011, hopefully enough time for them to sort their aftersales out...
mrdemon said:
I still don't get how he is going to support them with 1 3rd party dealer.
he quoted no staff, he then quoted the m12 got out of hand and there were to many and he had 10 or so dealers.
the figures state there were a bout 1000 M12's over 7 years of build.
Lee then states he wants to make 100 a year so he will soon be upto high numbers again but this time with no support.
He cleary lacks any business skills and support skills or seems not to care much about them. (so it seems)
the car will clearly have teathing issues with no where to get them put right, which is quite scary.
I did post the question on the Fenix site, but am still not happy with the answer I got
http://www.fenixautomotive.com/showthread.php?64-B...
this quote is not an answer
"A great advantage of using the GM standard motors is there are a lot of people who already know how to service these"
IF he does not have his own unit or engineers it's a poor show and will not work out. you will soon have a lot of owners with issues which could takes months and months to sort out.
You seem to be selectively quoting from the actual answer that you got there though?he quoted no staff, he then quoted the m12 got out of hand and there were to many and he had 10 or so dealers.
the figures state there were a bout 1000 M12's over 7 years of build.
Lee then states he wants to make 100 a year so he will soon be upto high numbers again but this time with no support.
He cleary lacks any business skills and support skills or seems not to care much about them. (so it seems)
the car will clearly have teathing issues with no where to get them put right, which is quite scary.
I did post the question on the Fenix site, but am still not happy with the answer I got
http://www.fenixautomotive.com/showthread.php?64-B...
this quote is not an answer
"A great advantage of using the GM standard motors is there are a lot of people who already know how to service these"
IF he does not have his own unit or engineers it's a poor show and will not work out. you will soon have a lot of owners with issues which could takes months and months to sort out.
Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 21st January 09:49
The Fenix Website said:
Good questions. I think there's some misunderstanding about our comments about "low overheads". This doesn't mean we won't have any aftersales support network. We will ensure there is support in place and we are talking to people about this. Noble Motorsport are already onboard and others will be announced in time. A great advantage of using the GM standard motors is there are a lot of people who already know how to service these.
I can absolutely confirm we are in this long term. I believe the M12/M400 model could be still selling it today if development had continued on it. Likewise, Caterham, Ultima, Ariel, etc have been selling and refining their cars for many years. We want to build a car that we will enjoy ourselves, with our (happy) customers and evolve over time - a long time.
Considering the launch of the car is still quite a way off, would you expect them to have already compiled a long list of service partners? Would you expect them to announce their whole business plan this far in advance?I can absolutely confirm we are in this long term. I believe the M12/M400 model could be still selling it today if development had continued on it. Likewise, Caterham, Ultima, Ariel, etc have been selling and refining their cars for many years. We want to build a car that we will enjoy ourselves, with our (happy) customers and evolve over time - a long time.
The quote you pulled seems to me to read that the benefit of using GM engine means they have even more options of aftersales partners (both in the UK and beyond) because plenty of mechanics know what they are doing with the GM unit.
If you are not happy with the answer you got, why not go back and state this on the thread itself as you will probably illicit a more direct response from the people that are actual in control of the product?
mrdemon said:
the car will clearly have teathing issues with no where to get them put right, which is quite scary.
This is a fact is it?fact is some cars will need warranty problems sorting
I am not happy with it being looked after by a 3rd party who will then have to wait for ages to get an answer about getting it fixed and getting the parts to fix it.
They should have there own base workshop and engineer imho, just like they did at Noble Barwell, and Ultima and infact any of the small UK car makers.
I have added a reply to the Fenix site
I am not happy with it being looked after by a 3rd party who will then have to wait for ages to get an answer about getting it fixed and getting the parts to fix it.
They should have there own base workshop and engineer imho, just like they did at Noble Barwell, and Ultima and infact any of the small UK car makers.
I have added a reply to the Fenix site
Edited by mrdemon on Friday 22 January 11:08
mrdemon said:
fact is some cars will need warranty problems sorting
I am not happy with it being looked after by a 3rd party who will then have to wait for ages to get an answer about getting it fixed and getting the parts to fix it.
They should have there own base workshop and engineer imho, just like they did at Noble Barwell, and Ultima and infact any of the small UK car makers.
I have added a reply to the Fenix site
But they haven't said they won't have the own workshop though?I am not happy with it being looked after by a 3rd party who will then have to wait for ages to get an answer about getting it fixed and getting the parts to fix it.
They should have there own base workshop and engineer imho, just like they did at Noble Barwell, and Ultima and infact any of the small UK car makers.
I have added a reply to the Fenix site
Edited by mrdemon on Friday 22 January 11:08
mrdemon said:
they sort of have in the interviews
he is aiming for a compete turn key car to arrive in the UK with no over heads based here.
with no Fenix staff as such.
Well that is how it reads in some of the interviews.
What I gathered from the Performance Car interview in particular was that Noble was trying to keep operations closer to his control and allowing him to be closer to the public like in the early days of his other companies that you mentioned rather then having no overheads or staff in this country at all.he is aiming for a compete turn key car to arrive in the UK with no over heads based here.
with no Fenix staff as such.
Well that is how it reads in some of the interviews.
Lee's big gripe seemed to be that he was removed from day to day contact with the owners and wanting to get back to that personal touch that I know several of the guys on here really appreciated during the M12 heydays.
I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to launch a car at this price and have zero manufacturer base/contact in the country it is sold. From their own replies it seem Fenix is looking at other small volume manufacturers like Atom and Caterham who keep their contact centralised to allow for smaller 'outside' expenditure but greater contact with customers and control over the cars.
From dealing with Caterham in the past I know that this is a great way of getting quick answers and being able to deal directly with company itself which makes things much more convenient IMO
HeavySoul said:
Lee's big gripe seemed to be that he was removed from day to day contact with the owners and wanting to get back to that personal touch that I know several of the guys on here really appreciated during the M12 heydays.
It's nice when you walk in and the owner says "I was just making tea, Martin, do you want one?"Jenx said:
HeavySoul said:
Lee's big gripe seemed to be that he was removed from day to day contact with the owners and wanting to get back to that personal touch that I know several of the guys on here really appreciated during the M12 heydays.
It's nice when you walk in and the owner says "I was just making tea, Martin, do you want one?"Let's just clear up the servicing thing shall we?
Posted by Chris Murray on the Fenix forums
I understand your concern so let me try to explain in more detail.
First, it is our intention to undertake some servicing but one Fenix centre won't satisfy the geographical needs or volume of all customers, so there will have to be other approved service centres and these will be announced in time. These centres will also be able to undertake warranty work through us.
Secondly, I'd like to say something about the "not getting too big" reference as this is being misinterpeted. Lee was not implying servicing was the problem, in fact that's quite profitable. He was mainly referring to the infrastructure he had to have for the M12/M400 production. The issue was the engines were fitted in the UK which meant he had to have a large unit, many mechanics, parts, managers, etc. This became a logistical and costly burden with no real advantage. With hindsight, he knows it is smarter to have cars completely built by Hi-Tech Automotive.
As I said earlier, "we will ensure there is support in place" and we will announce the details closer to the car's launch.
Regards,
Chris
Posted by Chris Murray on the Fenix forums
I understand your concern so let me try to explain in more detail.
First, it is our intention to undertake some servicing but one Fenix centre won't satisfy the geographical needs or volume of all customers, so there will have to be other approved service centres and these will be announced in time. These centres will also be able to undertake warranty work through us.
Secondly, I'd like to say something about the "not getting too big" reference as this is being misinterpeted. Lee was not implying servicing was the problem, in fact that's quite profitable. He was mainly referring to the infrastructure he had to have for the M12/M400 production. The issue was the engines were fitted in the UK which meant he had to have a large unit, many mechanics, parts, managers, etc. This became a logistical and costly burden with no real advantage. With hindsight, he knows it is smarter to have cars completely built by Hi-Tech Automotive.
As I said earlier, "we will ensure there is support in place" and we will announce the details closer to the car's launch.
Regards,
Chris
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