Noble is sold

[Urbalizer]

Well not quite yet. Just got back from meeting the guy with the R34 Skyline, his car is very nice tbh, immaculate in fact, also shockingly fast in a straight line(once it got traction) and we shook hands on the deal.

We are supposed to be completing the exchange on Wednesday, so as long as nothing goes wrong with the deal between now and then, it will be a done deal, i will drive it around for a while and all being well will sell it on in time for the Fenix.

Edited by Urbalizer on Saturday 23 January 12:19

[Daisy Duke]

Urbalizer said:

i will drive it around for a while and all being well will sell it on in time for the Fenix.

Are you thinking of modding the Fenix? It's just that you might have an interesting customer experience if you do, as this was posted by Chris Murray on the Fenix forum re servicing "Noble Motorsport are already onboard" and yet you posted this topic on the US Noble forum http://www.nobleforums.com/showthread.php?t=4671&a...

Congratulations on the sale anyway.

[Urbalizer]

Hi Daisy, yes i asked the question and i realise i was questioning Noble Motorsport at the time, but it was only a question, as something didnt ring true, but that was after Speaking to Peter the MD, after speaking to Mike at JNM who is a top bloke explained to me that there had been a communication breakdown and there were issues not previously explained, i.e. manifolds were cracked, actuators were faulty, i ended up upgrading the lot, with cam timing etc.

At the end of the day, when dealing with Mike and Darren at JNM they are very professional, all problems were sorted and i ended up walking away a very happy customer, would recommend them to anybody.

P.s i live in Cyprus and so the only reason i would not be taking the Fenix to JNM for servicing is due to distance and that is the other enticing prospect of the Fenix, i think many decent mechanics can work on it, so i should be able to take it to my nearest resident mechanic if needs must, am i also "hoping" the Fenix will be a lot less troublesome than the M12 and will be more robust, also i honestly do believe the Fenix is going to go through more vigorous testing before production, i really doubt Lee is going to make the same mistakes, after all the M600 according to Lee was a finished product when he left the company( except the engine kept on failing?), and i think you will agree he did a good job with that one.

With the M12, my upgrades started by fixing the cars inherent faults and cheap degrading parts and it went from there, if the Fenix is a car that leaves nothing to desire and delivers what is promised, then i may well leave it as factory standard , the M12 Although very nice left me wanting more with regards to power, i think the Fenix like the M600, it will take a while to get bored of that amount of power.

TBH i went on the forums for independent advice before i went back to JNM to confront about it all, because it is fairly easy to take a car to 460bhp on stock injectors and T25's, it is a shame that Peter the MD is not as good with customer communication his staff, as we had also cross wires because he knew me from my previous car and got confused, so going from memory of me as a customer he already thought i had fuel pump and cam timing upgraded etc..., but he did not realise i had not had these upgrades done yet on my new Noble, and like i say he also failed to mentioned about the cracked manifolds and faulty actuator, all he said was "you need to upgrade to T28!!", which is blatantly wrong, because at a later date they actually got my car to produce 480bhp on T25's.

All i will say is they are very good, but just make sure you speak to "Mike"

Edited by Urbalizer on Sunday 24th January 20:32

[Daisy Duke]

Urbalizer said:

At the end of the day, when dealing with Mike and Darren at JNM they are very professional, all problems were sorted and i ended up walking away a very happy customer, would recommend them to anybody.

P.s i live in Cyprus and so the only reason i would not be taking the Fenix to JNM for servicing is due to distance and that is the other enticing prospect of the Fenix, i think many decent mechanics can work on it, so i should be able to take it to my nearest resident mechanic if needs must,

Glad to hear it, I just thought you might be in for a rather difficult time if you had to have it serviced by someone you thought was trying to rip you off.

You might have to be careful though not to invalidate your warranty by using your own mechanic. I know some manufactures are pragmatic and are happy to cover items not affected by anything a non affilated service centre had done eg water ingress into the cabin, but others are not, and see it as a get-out clause. So you might want to check with Lee how you would stand in that situation, as all cars have teething issues, even those that have been vigorously tested.

Urbalizer said:

am i also "hoping" the Fenix will be a lot less troublesome than the M12 and will be more robust, also i honestly do believe the Fenix is going to go through more vigorous testing before production, i really doubt Lee is going to make the same mistakes, after all the M600 according to Lee was a finished product when he left the company( except the engine kept on failing?), and i think you will agree he did a good job with that one.

With the M12, my upgrades started by fixing the cars inherent faults and cheap degrading parts and it went from there, if the Fenix is a car that leaves nothing to desire and delivers what is promised, then i may well leave it as factory standard , the M12 Although very nice left me wanting more with regards to power, i think the Fenix like the M600, it will take a while to get bored of that amount of power.

I would hope that Lee had learnt from his experience with the M12 too, although not sure I agree with him that the M600 was a finished product when he left the company. According to the two Peters (who obviously have a rather different take on the situation to Lee) they pretty much started again. I suspect the truth is somewhere in between.

Oh and I bet you will be wanting more power before long. In my experience, as long as the drivability of the car remains unaffected, more power is just better.

Urbalizer said:

TBH i went on the forums for independent advice before i went back to JNM to confront about it all, because it is fairly easy to take a car to 460bhp on stock injectors and T25's, it is a shame that Peter the MD is not as good with customer communication his staff, as we had also cross wires because he knew me from my previous car and got confused, so going from memory of me as a customer he already thought i had fuel pump and cam timing upgraded etc..., but he did not realise i had not had these upgrades done yet on my new Noble, and like i say he also failed to mentioned about the cracked manifolds and faulty actuator, all he said was "you need to upgrade to T28!!", which is blatantly wrong, because at a later date they actually got my car to produce 480bhp on T25's.

All i will say is they are very good, but just make sure you speak to "Mike"

I kind of agree with you that it's not necessary to automatically upgrade to T28s if you want more power as there are cars running substantially higher bhps with T25s (albeit T25RSs which are significantly different to T25's though). However, I didn't think you could go very much over 450bhp with standard T25s so you must be right on the ragged edge getting 480bhp with them.

[Mike Tuckwood]

Urbalizer said:

.........at a later date they actually got my car to produce 480bhp on T25's.

Nah, not "real" Horsepower though as that is physically WAY beyond the ability of the stock T25 Turbo's!
The last car that we had which had been to JNM, produced 485BHP on their rollers, it saw a much more realistic 416BHP on our rollers.


Mike.

[Urbalizer]

Suprisingly they were only 0.9 bar, getting very close to the raggedy edge though
It was the most they had ever achieved with my setup, all they could put it down to is the custom made interccoler and catless 3" exhaust, they also said the engine was still like new, i drive like a kitten 90% of the time

Your right to advise caution Daisy, sods law states " if there is one thing that can go wrong, it will", a lot of factors are out of Lee's control, fully hand made and put together in Port Elizabeth, if somebody is having a bad day at work, that's all it takes, same with Aston, you get reports of some of them being put together terribly, so it can be luck of the draw with hand built cars no matter how much the prototype is tested.


But something else has come to my attention just yesterday which has changed my views on this car completely, or any fast car for that matter.

A month ago they brought in a new law, if caught doing over 150kmh in Cyprus, you go directly into custody and can face a 1 month prison sentence of very large fine, we are talking 3000 euro fine or prison, that's only 90mph, and since they have brought in the law they have been enforcing it vigorously, mobile radar traps all over the place, apparently there are too many fatal accidents in Cyprus due to car modding/tuning, Civics, skylines, Evo's and street racing.
So the government have brought in a zero tolerance scheme, but yet the same government keep rejecting applications for a racing track?

So i might just leave the fast car world behind me, i mean what's the point if you have no where to drive them, so i may be heading for a complete about turn and be heading for a Mitsubishi L200 or a Navara or something like that.

I have to get rid of a bloody 700bhp R34 GTR Skyline now, just have to try not to speed in the meantime, very difficult with all that temptation to press the pedal, I wonder if i can get it limited.

[jamie g]

mike, what sort of power would be expected at 0.9 bar boost assuming it could hold it to 6500-7000rpm and had a proper exhaust?

[Urbalizer]

Mike Tuckwood said:

Urbalizer said:

.........at a later date they actually got my car to produce 480bhp on T25's.

Nah, not "real" Horsepower though as that is physically WAY beyond the ability of the stock T25 Turbo's!
The last car that we had which had been to JNM, produced 485BHP on their rollers, it saw a much more realistic 416BHP on our rollers.


Mike.

Your most probably right Mike.

I think i'm going to take up "Go Karting" as a hobby, bit depressed at the moment tbh, going through change, and seems pointless having a fast road car, maybe it will be for the best getting rid of the Noble, having a family etc.. just been talking to the wife bout getting a nice MPV or a double cab pickup, i need to lose this obsession with Bhp unless they build a proper race track here in Cyprus.

[Mike Tuckwood]

jamie g said:

mike, what sort of power would be expected at 0.9 bar boost assuming it could hold it to 6500-7000rpm and had a proper exhaust?

Well, we ran my car (04MY 3R) in stock form, stock exhaust and Turbo's, well, everything in fact. All we changed were 2 wastegate actuators for better boost range and control.
What we ended up with after we re-mapped the ECU was:-

This was hitting peak power just before 6k rpm. Not exactly "ragged", but the amount of time it would have not been particularly productive, and certainly not time well spent in the big scheme of things.

This was on Shell V Power fuel. Changing to a better fuel would have been the next sensible step to cost effective additional power, but as the clutch was starting to slip at 445lb/ft, it didn't seem worthwhile pursuing further.


Mike.

Edited by Mike Tuckwood on Monday 25th January 14:15

[jamie g]

mike, what do you think it would have made with a better exhaust at 0.9 boost throughout? Assuming the t25 could hold that pressure.

[Mike Tuckwood]

Just for comparison purposes, this is the graph for the car I referred to earlier which showed 485BHP at JNM rollers, overlaid onto the graph for my car.
The spec of the JNM worked car was notably different to my stock car though.



Mike.

[Mike Tuckwood]

jamie g said:

mike, what do you think it would have made with a better exhaust at 0.9 boost throughout? Assuming the t25 could hold that pressure.

I doubt it could have made any more to be honest Jamie.
While I'm sure people are looking at the tail off in the graph and thinking its caused by the exhaust, we don't think it was the cause, It's more likey to have been the fall off in the ability of the Turbo to flow enough air, possibly even valve spring related at that RPM?

To make any more power thereafter, you would need better flowing Turbo's and other mod's.
Still, pretty impressive figures overall given what it was specced to do from the factory?

Mike.

[jamie g]

ok mike, educated guesses are not your thing

[Mike Tuckwood]

jamie g said:

;)ok mike, educated guesses are not your thing

If you look at the last comparison Graph, That cars spec was full Roush Exhaust, Pro-Alloy Intercooler, Fuel Pump, T28 Turbo's and a few other bits and bobs + full remap at JNM.

I don't think just changing the exhaust would have made any more total power...... if anything, it *might* have moved the graphs across to the left a marginal amount meaning things happened slightly earlier in the RPM range? </speculation>


Mike.

[rb5230]

so did you do a straight swap or is there cash involved?

[Daisy Duke]

Mike Tuckwood said:

Urbalizer said:

.........at a later date they actually got my car to produce 480bhp on T25's.

Nah, not "real" Horsepower though as that is physically WAY beyond the ability of the stock T25 Turbo's!
The last car that we had which had been to JNM, produced 485BHP on their rollers, it saw a much more realistic 416BHP on our rollers.

You're not implying that JNM's rollers are a little on the optimistic side are you Mike?

Urbalizer said:

A month ago they brought in a new law, if caught doing over 150kmh in Cyprus, you go directly into custody and can face a 1 month prison sentence of very large fine, we are talking 3000 euro fine or prison, that's only 90mph, and since they have brought in the law they have been enforcing it vigorously, mobile radar traps all over the place

Any chance the police will get bored with enforcing this and it will prove to be a temporary clampdown?

Urbalizer said:

So i might just leave the fast car world behind me, i mean what's the point if you have no where to drive them, so i may be heading for a complete about turn and be heading for a Mitsubishi L200 or a Navara or something like that.

Are you in Cyprus permanently so there's no point in keeping something fun back here? I understand the situation though as Phil and I were contemplating moving to an island with poor roads. We knew it would mean the end of the low slung supercars and having fun with 4WDs and fast boats instead.

Urbalizer said:

just been talking to the wife bout getting a nice MPV

Surely that's an oxymoron?

[andygtt]

Mike Tuckwood said:

Urbalizer said:

.........at a later date they actually got my car to produce 480bhp on T25's.

Nah, not "real" Horsepower though as that is physically WAY beyond the ability of the stock T25 Turbo's!
The last car that we had which had been to JNM, produced 485BHP on their rollers, it saw a much more realistic 416BHP on our rollers.


Mike.

agree about the T25's not producing a real 480bhp.... but your comparison to the JNM rollers isnt a fair comparison... as you know loads of factors could have meant that car running 60bhp less not just 'optomistic operators'.

If it had a free flow exhaust, T28's, intercooler etc etc then it has all the makings of a 450bhp+ engine right?
After all your completely std car with small T25's and no other mods produced 420bhp right?

[Mike Tuckwood]

andygtt said:

agree about the T25's not producing a real 480bhp.... but your comparison to the JNM rollers isnt a fair comparison... as you know loads of factors could have meant that car running 60bhp less not just 'optomistic operators'.

If it had a free flow exhaust, T28's, intercooler etc etc then it has all the makings of a 450bhp+ engine right?
After all your completely std car with small T25's and no other mods produced 420bhp right?

Yep, you'd think so wouldn't you? However, understandably "concerned" as to the reason for the big difference in power figures achieved, the customer took his car straight back up to JNM to run it again. Result was the same figures achieved as previously on those rollers.

Hence the conclusion that its not unfair to assume that JNM's rollers read circa 15% higher than our rollers.
That owner took my car out for a drive too and confirmed that the graph differences could be felt in real time.


Mike.

Edited by Mike Tuckwood on Monday 25th January 17:58

[Mike Tuckwood]

andygtt said:

After all your completely std car with small T25's and no other mods produced 420bhp right?

427bhp.

[daddysumo]

I have to say my car produced 449 on JNM's rollers and a more reasonable 400 on DD rollers a week later. That said it did still show 400 ftlb, so an increase of 50 hp and 70 ftlb and a more useable power curve so I was still pleased.