Is this an Intercooler issue rather than an electrical issue
Discussion
Looking for some advice from anyone that had a similar problem on a 3R and fixed it....
I had yet another instance of my track day power loss problem last week, despite the car now having a front mounted oil cooler. Performance was dropping away (it seemed) as the car got hotter, but towards the end of the evening dropped away completly when at around 5000rpm with full power applied the engine almost died and refused to increase revs - oil and water temperatures looked normal.
The car is running at around 410bhp (when cold!) but still has the original intercooler fitted. No problems on the road, where it runs well.
Fuel lines from the tank have been modded and the fuel pump wiring mod has been done.
I am thinking that this might be characteristic of Intercooler heat soak problems but wondered whether any of you have had similar and if so what the fix was please? Or could it be ECU issues when hot?
Thanks
I had yet another instance of my track day power loss problem last week, despite the car now having a front mounted oil cooler. Performance was dropping away (it seemed) as the car got hotter, but towards the end of the evening dropped away completly when at around 5000rpm with full power applied the engine almost died and refused to increase revs - oil and water temperatures looked normal.
The car is running at around 410bhp (when cold!) but still has the original intercooler fitted. No problems on the road, where it runs well.
Fuel lines from the tank have been modded and the fuel pump wiring mod has been done.
I am thinking that this might be characteristic of Intercooler heat soak problems but wondered whether any of you have had similar and if so what the fix was please? Or could it be ECU issues when hot?
Thanks
Edited by Air Support on Sunday 23 May 22:09
Hi Andrew , it was very warm last tuesday night and i did notice i slight drop off of power in my last run and thats with the big intercooler !!! so i,m guessing the small one did not help things ,i,m looking at what mods to do to help airflow through the engine bay but info seems a bit sketchy !! i think we have got used to the nice cold air !!!
TuxMan said:
Hi Andrew , it was very warm last tuesday night and i did notice i slight drop off of power in my last run and thats with the big intercooler !!! so i,m guessing the small one did not help things ,i,m looking at what mods to do to help airflow through the engine bay but info seems a bit sketchy !! i think we have got used to the nice cold air !!!
Hi Simon - thanks for your previous offer of helping to fit a new intercooler - might be looking to take you up on that!Any idea what the lead time is to order one from Pro Alloy as I would want to put it on the car prior to the Spa trip?
Andrew
Edited by Air Support on Sunday 23 May 22:28
HI have you done the tunnel mod ? also iff you cut the flat area out on the under side of your clam below the area where the clam rises up like winglets this will aid in reducing heat soak with out doing anything too visible you could also fit a fan on the intercooler mine has 2and a fan on top of the clam to pull warm air out of the engine bay and cut outs in the front inner wheel arches using the door cills to send air to the engine bay and ducts bellow the side pods and holes cut out in the rear of the clam all this may be a bit ott for you but previous owner reconned this stopped a 20 percent loss in power on the track due to heat soak
Don't fit a fan to your intercooler it will just block more surface area than it can actually serve.
If you want to get really effective flow through the cooler then extend the intercooler box through the mesh in the rear of the clam this will put the "exhaust" of the intercooler into a low pressure zone and encourage a lot more flow.
PS this mod doesn't look too pretty but it does work.
If you want to get really effective flow through the cooler then extend the intercooler box through the mesh in the rear of the clam this will put the "exhaust" of the intercooler into a low pressure zone and encourage a lot more flow.
PS this mod doesn't look too pretty but it does work.
Air Support said:
TuxMan said:
Hi Andrew , it was very warm last tuesday night and i did notice i slight drop off of power in my last run and thats with the big intercooler !!! so i,m guessing the small one did not help things ,i,m looking at what mods to do to help airflow through the engine bay but info seems a bit sketchy !! i think we have got used to the nice cold air !!!
Hi Simon - thanks for your previous offer of helping to fit a new intercooler - might be looking to take you up on that!Any idea what the lead time is to order one from Pro Alloy as I would want to put it on the car prior to the Spa trip?
Andrew
Edited by Air Support on Sunday 23 May 22:28
As Daddysumo said, most likely it's your intake air temps getting up into the range where the ECU removes timing and adds fuel to try to keep the engine from destroying itself. First thing to do is to change to a larger intercooler. Depending on your track sessions and the ambient temps, though, this may not solve the problem - in our experience, tracking M12s in ambient temps of around 100 degrees F, there is no simple solution to the problem. All you can do is a bunch of smaller mods that lessen the problem, but won't eliminate it.
After changing the intercooler, we do mods to reduce the under-clam temps. Custom inconel heat shields around the turbos and cats, along with ceramic coating the entire exhaust helps. Improving the air circulation around the engine also helps - the tunnel vent mod helps, along with removing the funnel-like ducting inside of the side vents, and making the side vents larger. The M400 side scoops also help. Changing the mesh screens to a less restrictive mesh is another thing that helps get more air into the engine compartment. Venting the rear clam in back of the rear wheels aids airflow, along with sealing off the rear inner wheelwells from the exhaust compartment. Etc. etc. etc...
After changing the intercooler, we do mods to reduce the under-clam temps. Custom inconel heat shields around the turbos and cats, along with ceramic coating the entire exhaust helps. Improving the air circulation around the engine also helps - the tunnel vent mod helps, along with removing the funnel-like ducting inside of the side vents, and making the side vents larger. The M400 side scoops also help. Changing the mesh screens to a less restrictive mesh is another thing that helps get more air into the engine compartment. Venting the rear clam in back of the rear wheels aids airflow, along with sealing off the rear inner wheelwells from the exhaust compartment. Etc. etc. etc...
Air Support said:
TuxMan said:
Hi Andrew , it was very warm last tuesday night and i did notice i slight drop off of power in my last run and thats with the big intercooler !!! so i,m guessing the small one did not help things ,i,m looking at what mods to do to help airflow through the engine bay but info seems a bit sketchy !! i think we have got used to the nice cold air !!!
Hi Simon - thanks for your previous offer of helping to fit a new intercooler - might be looking to take you up on that!Any idea what the lead time is to order one from Pro Alloy as I would want to put it on the car prior to the Spa trip?
Andrew
No Idea mate give Wayne at pro-alloy a call i,m sure he will help out ,offer still stands if you get a issue
Thanks for all the helpful responses - as usual. Lots of good ideas suggestions.
I get the feeling here, although no-one has stated it specifically, that the consensus view is intercooler limitations rather than electrical faults? Anyone feel like expressing a view?
daddysumo said:
plug in a lap top and monitor your intake temps... that will reveal all !
Yes – unfortunately time and technology are the limiting factors here – however a trip to the Jetstream boys might be in order as I’m going to have to be on track to get the problem to show up.I get the feeling here, although no-one has stated it specifically, that the consensus view is intercooler limitations rather than electrical faults? Anyone feel like expressing a view?
The airflow to the intercooler is better than most people think, the air actually folds over the buttresses and funnels into the cooler, the main problem is getting the air out of the engine bay, the best way for trackdays would be to make the grill removable, for M400's another biggie would be to remove the grills from the sidepods.
One other odd thing that happens to a Noble is that the hot air from the radiator sticks to the sides and top of the car and gets pushed into the engine bay, this can be stopped, but it starts to get complicated, the first thing you have to do is to tidy up the low pressure area under the car, it goes on and on and on after that.
One other odd thing that happens to a Noble is that the hot air from the radiator sticks to the sides and top of the car and gets pushed into the engine bay, this can be stopped, but it starts to get complicated, the first thing you have to do is to tidy up the low pressure area under the car, it goes on and on and on after that.
Edited by Adrian W on Monday 24th May 09:51
Adrian W said:
The airflow to the intercooler is better than most people think, the air actually folds over the buttresses and funnels into the cooler, the main problem is getting the air out of the engine bay, the best way for trackdays would be to make the grill removable, for M400's another biggie would be to remove the grills from the sidepods.
One other odd thing that happens to a Noble is that the hot air from the radiator sticks to the sides and top of the car and gets pushed into the engine bay, this can be stopped, but it starts to get complicated, the first thing you have to do is to tidy up the low pressure area under the car, it goes on and on and on after that.
Great info Adrian if i start a seperate thread can you put some ideas on where we should be going with the aero mods !!One other odd thing that happens to a Noble is that the hot air from the radiator sticks to the sides and top of the car and gets pushed into the engine bay, this can be stopped, but it starts to get complicated, the first thing you have to do is to tidy up the low pressure area under the car, it goes on and on and on after that.
Edited by Adrian W on Monday 24th May 09:51
Adrian W said:
The airflow to the intercooler is better than most people think, the air actually folds over the buttresses and funnels into the cooler, the main problem is getting the air out of the engine bay, the best way for trackdays would be to make the grill removable, for M400's another biggie would be to remove the grills from the sidepods.
One other odd thing that happens to a Noble is that the hot air from the radiator sticks to the sides and top of the car and gets pushed into the engine bay, this can be stopped, but it starts to get complicated, the first thing you have to do is to tidy up the low pressure area under the car, it goes on and on and on after that.
At least ensure you remove the number plate if it fastened to the rear mesh which most are.One other odd thing that happens to a Noble is that the hot air from the radiator sticks to the sides and top of the car and gets pushed into the engine bay, this can be stopped, but it starts to get complicated, the first thing you have to do is to tidy up the low pressure area under the car, it goes on and on and on after that.
Edited by Adrian W on Monday 24th May 09:51
ks :-) Air Support said:
TuxMan said:
Hi Andrew , it was very warm last tuesday night and i did notice i slight drop off of power in my last run and thats with the big intercooler !!! so i,m guessing the small one did not help things ,i,m looking at what mods to do to help airflow through the engine bay but info seems a bit sketchy !! i think we have got used to the nice cold air !!!
Hi Simon - thanks for your previous offer of helping to fit a new intercooler - might be looking to take you up on that!Any idea what the lead time is to order one from Pro Alloy as I would want to put it on the car prior to the Spa trip?
Andrew
Edited by Air Support on Sunday 23 May 22:28
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