Mods for M400 Gearbox

[sundance02]

Think I got that bug again and this seems to be the car thats causing the prob, How do you stop? when I ran out of wedge I suppose, So the next step is gearbox. I have looked at some options and was thinking that a gear kit would be the best option, or cheapest. Would like to run the car at 500 maybe 525bhp and want something that will take the extra power, of course i will be replacing the clutch. Anyone got any ideas?

[FUNKSTER UK]

Give Bernie a call,
He's the man if you want to put power and torque through your box

http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/

Matty.

[TuxMan]

Yep with Matty on this one !!! Gearbox man for box and helix for clutch rebuild !!

[sundance02]

Thanks gents going to get on it tomorrow see what sort of costs.Has anyone had it done there?

[TuxMan]

pretty much all of us that have had a box modified have had it done there , mods include

rebuilt with new bearings
shot pean and super finish gears
oil cooler unions fitted

my 5 speed cost £1300 including a new LSD .

[sundance02]

TuxMan said:

pretty much all of us that have had a box modified have had it done there , mods include

rebuilt with new bearings
shot pean and super finish gears
oil cooler unions fitted

my 5 speed cost £1300 including a new LSD .

That sounds like a good price for alot of work.

From the little bit of homework i have done it seems that for the 6sp 400 box there is very little choice. Would make sence to change the internels but use the original casing but i cant find anything under 5k just for the gear kit when you are talking above 450bhp.

A few people have told me that its very rare for the later 6sp boxes to fail, so am wondering if i keep her at around 480bhp could i get away with not changing it at all and just change the clutch?

[YellowShed]

Right, to clear up some mis-conceptions: it's not power but torque that kills gearboxes (well that and temperature!!!!). I could kill a 6-speed with 300bhp - or have it live forever with 600bhp!!

As long as you keep it cool and have the mods from CTS/GearboxMan, the box is reliable. Adrian runs 570bhp and 540lbft torque and it's fine. Chillidog's racecar only had gearbox problems if the cooling failed (we saw oil temps in excess of 180degC ).

Moral: get the mods done to the box for peace of mind, and it'll live on.

Just curious as to what else you're modding to get you car to give over 500bhp?

YellowShed

Edit:

PS Can recommend Noble London to fit the exhaust - they've fitted a few in the past.

Edited by YellowShed on Tuesday 25th May 20:34

[sundance02]

YellowShed said:

Right, to clear up some mis-conceptions: it's not power but torque that kills gearboxes (well that and temperature!!!!). I could kill a 6-speed with 300bhp - or have it live forever with 600bhp!!

As long as you keep it cool and have the mods from CTS/GearboxMan, the box is reliable. Adrian runs 570bhp and 540lbft torque and it's fine. Chillidog's racecar only had gearbox problems if the cooling failed (we saw oil temps in excess of 180degC ).

Moral: get the mods done to the box for peace of mind, and it'll live on.

Just curious as to what else you're modding to get you car to give over 500bhp?

YellowShed

Edit:

PS Can recommend Noble London to fit the exhaust - they've fitted a few in the past.

Edited by YellowShed on Tuesday 25th May 20:34

Hi Trevor I was going to ask you that question.

Im just thinking about what i would have to do to achieve a wider torque band and increased power across the rev range and if poss with an instant response say from 3000rpm through to 7500rpm

I Was wondering whether a BOV and A better boost controller along with a new manifold, Injectors, and of course a ECU re map would achieve my goal.

Not sure if they are ball bearing or thrust bearing based turbos on the 400, as i thought ball bearing worked better a higher speeds and temps.

Something I would like to discus with yourself in the nr future when the other mods are fitted.
Cheers
Craig

[sundance02]

FUNKSTER UK said:

Give Bernie a call,
He's the man if you want to put power and torque through your box

http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/

Matty.

Thanks, had seen them advertised on the net. Spoke to Bernie today he was very helpful and had a very good solution. So now I am just gathering as much info as i can on ways to achieve my goal and the cost, and then decide if thats the route i will take.

Cheers for the contact

[david.mt]

sundance02 said:

FUNKSTER UK said:

Give Bernie a call,
He's the man if you want to put power and torque through your box

http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/

Matty.

Thanks, had seen them advertised on the net. Spoke to Bernie today he was very helpful and had a very good solution. So now I am just gathering as much info as i can on ways to achieve my goal and the cost, and then decide if thats the route i will take.

Cheers for the contact

Just what exactly is your goal and what's it going to be used for. They are generally pretty well sorted out of the box with only a few well know modifications required - I run "480bhp" all day on a Roush M400 (Intercooler, exhaust, fuel pump wiring and remap) with nothing else changed. I believe that above a certain level, the cost/reliability of changes just does not justify the benefits. If you can't drive fast in a 400bhp car then you won't drive any faster in a 500bhp car

[sundance02]

david.mt said:

sundance02 said:

FUNKSTER UK said:

Give Bernie a call,
He's the man if you want to put power and torque through your box

http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/

Matty.

Thanks, had seen them advertised on the net. Spoke to Bernie today he was very helpful and had a very good solution. So now I am just gathering as much info as i can on ways to achieve my goal and the cost, and then decide if thats the route i will take.

Cheers for the contact

Just what exactly is your goal and what's it going to be used for. They are generally pretty well sorted out of the box with only a few well know modifications required - I run "480bhp" all day on a Roush M400 (Intercooler, exhaust, fuel pump wiring and remap) with nothing else changed. I believe that above a certain level, the cost/reliability of changes just does not justify the benefits. If you can't drive fast in a 400bhp car then you won't drive any faster in a 500bhp car

Driving fast is not my problem. Driving fast for long periods is. I will be doing alot of track work in the uk as well as spain where the temp is much higher I need a reliable car. As for what I want from the car is like I said above Im just thinking about what i would have to do to achieve a wider torque band and increased power across the rev range and more torque if poss with an instant response say from 3000rpm through to 7500rpm or 8k if poss,if I can do that without to many changes then great but i doubt it.My goal simple to have the B......s track day car.

Edited by sundance02 on Wednesday 26th May 23:29

[sundance02]

I have decided to upgrade the gearbox, and would like to get rid of the 6sp gearbox and Lsd I have. (M400 07/05 reg ) Its covered 27k and has never been tracked The work will be carried out hopefully in a couple of weeks time so will be available soon,

Would anyone be interested?

Edited by sundance02 on Thursday 27th May 18:56

[Gadgeroonie]

27,000 miles for a m400 gearbox is quite a lot of miles !

i would be interested in buying it providing its in good order to use it as a base to get it rebuilt to Berni Spec

if it turns out its worn and berni can't use it - its scrap

[sundance02]

Gadgeroonie said:

27,000 miles for a m400 gearbox is quite a lot of miles !

i would be interested in buying it providing its in good order to use it as a base to get it rebuilt to Berni Spec

if it turns out its worn and berni can't use it - its scrap

I believe it to be in very good order, I would not be changing it if I were not tracking the car. I will be taking it to Spain and the temp even with everyday driving will be to much for it. With the mods im doing I want to be on the safe side so a new uprated box is the way forward for me.

Of course if it turned out to be of no use which IMHO I doubt then yes it would be scrap. Your more than welcome to have it checked out and if its no good i might as well keep it.

Am i right in saying the M400 has a upgraded linkage to the 3r 6sp, much more precise and less sloppy?

Cheers Craig

Edited by sundance02 on Thursday 27th May 17:01

[sundance02]

Gadgeroonie said:

27,000 miles for a m400 gearbox is quite a lot of miles !

i would be interested in buying it providing its in good order to use it as a base to get it rebuilt to Berni Spec

if it turns out its worn and berni can't use it - its scrap

Spoke with Bernie today,and he was saying he does not like to refurb these boxes once used because he believes they wont last and yet it seems a few of you have done this without any probs, I would much prefer an upgrade on mine as it saves a good bit of cash, Any views on this would be a great help.

[Blu3R]

sundance02 said:

Am i right in saying the M400 has a upgraded linkage to the 3r 6sp, much more precise and less sloppy?

Yes, correct. Mine had the M400 linkage fitted from new which was the deciding factor when I bought it. It really does make a lot of difference to the majority of 3/3Rs I've driven without it.

[Adrian W]

david.mt said:

sundance02 said:

FUNKSTER UK said:

Give Bernie a call,
He's the man if you want to put power and torque through your box

http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/

Matty.

Thanks, had seen them advertised on the net. Spoke to Bernie today he was very helpful and had a very good solution. So now I am just gathering as much info as i can on ways to achieve my goal and the cost, and then decide if thats the route i will take.

Cheers for the contact

Just what exactly is your goal and what's it going to be used for. They are generally pretty well sorted out of the box with only a few well know modifications required - I run "480bhp" all day on a Roush M400 (Intercooler, exhaust, fuel pump wiring and remap) with nothing else changed. I believe that above a certain level, the cost/reliability of changes just does not justify the benefits. If you can't drive fast in a 400bhp car then you won't drive any faster in a 500bhp car

Very curious David, how did you get to 480bhp, I thought 460 was about the limit for a basicly standard M400 engine.

[david.mt]

Adrian W said:

david.mt said:

sundance02 said:

FUNKSTER UK said:

Give Bernie a call,
He's the man if you want to put power and torque through your box

http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/

Matty.

Thanks, had seen them advertised on the net. Spoke to Bernie today he was very helpful and had a very good solution. So now I am just gathering as much info as i can on ways to achieve my goal and the cost, and then decide if thats the route i will take.

Cheers for the contact

Just what exactly is your goal and what's it going to be used for. They are generally pretty well sorted out of the box with only a few well know modifications required - I run "480bhp" all day on a Roush M400 (Intercooler, exhaust, fuel pump wiring and remap) with nothing else changed. I believe that above a certain level, the cost/reliability of changes just does not justify the benefits. If you can't drive fast in a 400bhp car then you won't drive any faster in a 500bhp car

Very curious David, how did you get to 480bhp, I thought 460 was about the limit for a basicly standard M400 engine.

That's why I put the figure in "" as the dyno print is from JNM - still fast enough for me

[sundance02]

Blu3R said:

sundance02 said:

Am i right in saying the M400 has a upgraded linkage to the 3r 6sp, much more precise and less sloppy?

Yes, correct. Mine had the M400 linkage fitted from new which was the deciding factor when I bought it. It really does make a lot of difference to the majority of 3/3Rs I've driven without it.

Thanks Rob, so would be a good thing for someone with a 5sp or 6sp box even as standard M400 kit.

I think because the extra power and heat its going to take its prob a false econemy not having a new one,I think however much it hurts laying out for a new one, it will work out better in the long term.

Edited by sundance02 on Friday 28th May 17:49

[Blu3R]

sundance02 said:

Thanks Rob, so would be a good thing for someone with a 5sp or 6sp box even as standard M400 kit.

Are you suggesting you're going to replace the linkage as well then Craig? Wouldn't have thought there's much need unless there's a problem already? Plus the kit for my car was over 1800 quid back in '03