Discussion
Any suggestions where I can get new plugs from?
The wiki says Motorcraft AGSF32WM/4 527 158 but I've just been to my local Ford main dealer and they say they 'don't do Motorcraft anymore' and don't have any reference books listing numbers so they have no idea what alternative plugs might be.
The wiki says Motorcraft AGSF32WM/4 527 158 but I've just been to my local Ford main dealer and they say they 'don't do Motorcraft anymore' and don't have any reference books listing numbers so they have no idea what alternative plugs might be.
Local Ford dealer just rang to say they have matched the Motorcraft AGSF32WM/4 number to Motorcraft AGSF32WM/F4 - the difference being the F before the 4 at the end.
He reccons they are from a Maverick!
Is this likely to be right, or are they just trying to sell me plugs with the closest number?
Are there any alternative makes? If so, does anyone know the numbers?
Thanks
He reccons they are from a Maverick!
Is this likely to be right, or are they just trying to sell me plugs with the closest number?
Are there any alternative makes? If so, does anyone know the numbers?
Thanks
Dave2P said:
My plugs are NGK PTR5D-13, courtesy of Skip, which is what NGK specifies for the Maverick (3L Duratec).
Nooooooooo!!Please. The NGKs at a heat range of 5 are far too hot for the Noble engines (so was the original Ford plug "*32*"). Please run something cooler. Use NGK BR7EFS and gap to 25thou as delivered will be fine. I thought Skip would have known better - told Noble London ages ago that the 7's were available.
YellowShed
YellowShed said:
Please run something cooler. Use NGK BR7EFS and gap to 25thou
Ok, help us out. The experts appear to have divergent opinions, so for those of us without the technical knowledge :-1) Why does the Noble need a "cooler" plug than the Maverick in the same base engine (I can guess - but I'd like to understand too)? And, of course, why did Noble (apparently) pick an imperfect plug as standard (the Motorcraft one)?
2) Gaps... arrghhh... of those Noble owners who expressed an opinion
, most say 35thou. The wiki (and the Rossion build manual) says 40thou for a standard M12, and 35thou for tuned M12s and M400s. 25thou is way smaller... why?Really appreciate your input - thanks in advance...
Dave2P,
The Maverick is non-turbo'd and spec'd to run down to -40C where plug fouling could be a problem on cold plugs. So in order to pass Ford's test spec, they have to run a reasonably hot plug.
When you slap two turbos on the engine, you run much higher peak pressures and temperatures than the 200bhp Maverick. So you need a colder plug. Noble had no other plug to chose from at the time, save the Motorcraft plug, and in Noble's limited testing it was deemed to be OK. Because the standard Motorcraft plug comes with a 1.3mm gap, it gets blown out by the much higher pressures. So the recommendation is to gap them down. 1mm for the 3R and 0.8mm for the M400 because of its higher boost pressures. It's wise not to change the gap too much from the original because of weakening the tip and the risk of it falling off.
When we developed the first 500bhp engines and the race engines, we specially machined some colder NGK plugs to fit the Ford head. Since then, NGK have offered the BR7EFS which fits, doesn't have a protruded electrode and comes at 0.6mm gap which is absolutely fine for a turbo engine. That is the recommended plug for up to 500bhp. If you run much more power than that, I'd recommend the machined NGK 8s that we do, as we haven't been able to find a standard NGK plug that cold.
Hope that helps,
YellowShed
The Maverick is non-turbo'd and spec'd to run down to -40C where plug fouling could be a problem on cold plugs. So in order to pass Ford's test spec, they have to run a reasonably hot plug.
When you slap two turbos on the engine, you run much higher peak pressures and temperatures than the 200bhp Maverick. So you need a colder plug. Noble had no other plug to chose from at the time, save the Motorcraft plug, and in Noble's limited testing it was deemed to be OK. Because the standard Motorcraft plug comes with a 1.3mm gap, it gets blown out by the much higher pressures. So the recommendation is to gap them down. 1mm for the 3R and 0.8mm for the M400 because of its higher boost pressures. It's wise not to change the gap too much from the original because of weakening the tip and the risk of it falling off.
When we developed the first 500bhp engines and the race engines, we specially machined some colder NGK plugs to fit the Ford head. Since then, NGK have offered the BR7EFS which fits, doesn't have a protruded electrode and comes at 0.6mm gap which is absolutely fine for a turbo engine. That is the recommended plug for up to 500bhp. If you run much more power than that, I'd recommend the machined NGK 8s that we do, as we haven't been able to find a standard NGK plug that cold.
Hope that helps,
YellowShed
YellowShed said:
Hope that helps,
Yes it does - TVM for that. Have done some Googling on the BR7EFS and now know a bit more about "cold plugs and hot engines" (!); came across this thread (from May - doh!) http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=8&a... and ordered some... cheers!bittercars - http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/ do next day delivery if you're quick (need to order by 12!).
My car's been running fine (road use only) on the other plugs for a year, but has had an annoyingingly occasional misfire for the past two weeks... so it would be nice if new plugs make it go away!
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