standard to 450bhp....How?

[ThunderCat]

Take a standard Noble, tune it to around 450 BHP.

what parts and how much?

Keeping in mind maximum reliability, hence only 450bhp (he he, only)

[Gadgeroonie]

you can have early 400 bhp - but not 450

you will need

bigger turbos
stronger clutch
uprated box with lsd
intercooler
exhaust
remap

what gearbox do you have on it now ?

[ThunderCat]

Anywhere over 400 would make me happy.

At the moment i do not own a Noble . however by the end of the year i will and i am taking every step necessary to make sure i know exactly what i need to do.

I'm looking to tweak it from standard to anywhere between 400-450bhp. just a little kick away from standard. (probably just because it will be fun more than anything)i have been reading on this forum all day and night, my eyes hurt but i cannot take myself away, if just reading about what i can do is stimulating me this much i dred to think what i'll spend on her. it's a very addictive hobby i can see that already.

keep the info coming, i am but a sponge.

[swampy56]

My advice is buy one that has all the mods done, it will be cheaper, trust me!

[andygtt]

going over 430bhp ish reliably requires a large investment and work, i.e. clutch injectors etc etc....

a real 420bhp noble is a very fast car.

[ThunderCat]

Ok so maybe i threw 450 out there a little hasty, 420 will be plenty to play around with.

I'd like it to remain fairly reliable.

Swampy, i know what your saying but part of the fun is doing it myself although saying that i may be hard pushed to find a standard one if everyone thinks like me.

I'm interested to hear about the ROUSH exhaust, it seems to be the one to buy. i like a rampant sounding car, anyone got one attached that can comment?

[daddysumo]

Yep I have and athough a tad loud it sounds the mutts... IMO !

[ThunderCat]

ha ha, love it. cheers mate

[R0162]

ThunderCat said:

Ok so maybe i threw 450 out there a little hasty, 420 will be plenty to play around with.

I'd like it to remain fairly reliable.

Swampy, i know what your saying but part of the fun is doing it myself although saying that i may be hard pushed to find a standard one if everyone thinks like me.

I'm interested to hear about the ROUSH exhaust, it seems to be the one to buy. i like a rampant sounding car, anyone got one attached that can comment?

I used to have the rousch exhaust, it is not loud, it is very deep and throaty sound.
I designed a resonating chamber that fits just inside the tail pipes with lots of holes that does not restrict flow, but makes the car sound like a wailing banshee(the trick is to leave jagged edges , it will make your ears bleed.
There is also another mod which can be done by tapping into the silencers (like with the caprisco exhausts) and can make the car sound like it is screaming at double the rpm.

To be honest i thought 450bhp is very easy to achieve reliably out of a GTO3R? i may have got my facts mixed up but i thought Mike at Area 52 remapped a stock 3 litre to 430bhp with no mods?

Mike what power did you take yours to on the stock setup?

[Gadgeroonie]

this is my own car mapped by me last year



once i had made 400 hp i was happy and stopped pushing the engine

it is stock apart from fuel pump, actuators and intercooler

[daddysumo]

107 db at 3k rpm static not loud......

[ThunderCat]

RO162, whailing banshee, man after my own heart, " resonating chamber that fits just inside the tail pipes"
i'm not really much of a mechanic and definately have not got the time to be, have you got a picture of said invention or could you explain how to make it. I have an engineer friend who may be able to replicate.

Would appreciate ypour help and guidance on this as i am very serious about the exhaust note.

thanks,

Gadgeroonie, thanks for your input, nice power

[R0162]

Omg Mike, look at the torque curve on that, who needs bhp when you have that ammount of torque, is that due to the boost solenoid you have fitted?

Ok, then i guess it can not be achieved by stock setup, but what if you retard the cam timing to acheive higher rpm and then change the exhaust to dual flow with racing cats and upgrade the fuel pump, do you think that is enough to acheive 450bhp?

[andygtt]

R0162 said:

Omg Mike, look at the torque curve on that, who needs bhp when you have that ammount of torque, is that due to the boost solenoid you have fitted?

Ok, then i guess it can not be achieved by stock setup, but what if you retard the cam timing to acheive higher rpm and then change the exhaust to dual flow with racing cats and upgrade the fuel pump, do you think that is enough to acheive 450bhp?

nope, I had those exact mods and the valve spring start to float just when you want to take advantage of the cam timing, also std T25's cant make 450bhp, nor can std fuel injectors with std fuel pressure... neither can std clutch etc.

to go reliably above 420bhp you need quite a lot of mods and extra cost.

[R0162]

andygtt said:

nope, I had those exact mods and the valve spring start to float just when you want to take advantage of the cam timing, also std T25's cant make 450bhp, nor can std fuel injectors with std fuel pressure... neither can std clutch etc.

to go reliably above 420bhp you need quite a lot of mods and extra cost.

What power can you achieve on standard fuel injectors?
What is max power acheivable on T25's?

I did get stronger valve sprinsg on mine, but i was led to believe that this mod was unecesary, as Mike reported that the standard springs were strong enough?

Anyway, So if you were to upgrade turbos to T28 and also upgrade valve springs what power can you acheive?

It seems i must have less than 450bhp, because with this Noble i am still on T25's and standard injectors at the moment and only 0.9 bar boost, so im not sure why that certain company gave me a piece of paper saying 480bhp, lol, i would be interested in finding out what my "real" bhp is.

My old Noble had T28's at 1.2 bar boost and still only acheived 480bhp according to the piece of paper i was given, lol, so i did think it was strange that i managed to achieve so much power on this one at 0.9 bar on T25's, but one thing i have thought of was the car had been messed with before i bought it, it had vegantune stickers all over the engine, so i'm not sure if anything had been done to the engine previously, but still like you say the T25's can not achieve 450bhp so something can not be right with the dyno chart.

[TuxMan]

andygtt said:

R0162 said:

Omg Mike, look at the torque curve on that, who needs bhp when you have that ammount of torque, is that due to the boost solenoid you have fitted?

Ok, then i guess it can not be achieved by stock setup, but what if you retard the cam timing to acheive higher rpm and then change the exhaust to dual flow with racing cats and upgrade the fuel pump, do you think that is enough to acheive 450bhp?

nope, I had those exact mods and the valve spring start to float just when you want to take advantage of the cam timing, also std T25's cant make 450bhp, nor can std fuel injectors with std fuel pressure... neither can std clutch etc.

to go reliably above 420bhp you need quite a lot of mods and extra cost.

what that man said !!!

[andygtt]

R0162 said:

I did get stronger valve sprinsg on mine, but i was led to believe that this mod was unecesary, as Mike reported that the standard springs were strong enough?

yes he did, and yet from the pictures posted up its clear that he fitted upgraded ones in James car so I guess he thinks he was wrong now?

My std ones floated at 400bhp on the dyno and we had to back it down to 390bhp.

The injectors wont do a real 450bhp unless you change your fuel pressure and then you can see 464 but its cheaper to buy injectors than change the fuel system lol.

[Gadgeroonie]

R0162 said:

Omg Mike, look at the torque curve on that, who needs bhp when you have that ammount of torque, is that due to the boost solenoid you have fitted?

Ok, then i guess it can not be achieved by stock setup, but what if you retard the cam timing to acheive higher rpm and then change the exhaust to dual flow with racing cats and upgrade the fuel pump, do you think that is enough to acheive 450bhp?

the 445 lb/ft of torque is produced because of the actuators / boost solenoid set up but the car only runs just under a bar of boost

its a real hoot to drive and there is no need to rev it hard just change up and let the torque propel you up the road. If you want to rev it hard you can, it just seems to hit the rev counter too quickly

[jamescmr2]

andygtt said:

R0162 said:

I did get stronger valve sprinsg on mine, but i was led to believe that this mod was unecesary, as Mike reported that the standard springs were strong enough?

yes he did, and yet from the pictures posted up its clear that he fitted upgraded ones in James car so I guess he thinks he was wrong now?

My std ones floated at 400bhp on the dyno and we had to back it down to 390bhp.

The injectors wont do a real 450bhp unless you change your fuel pressure and then you can see 464 but its cheaper to buy injectors than change the fuel system lol.

Although i know some of you guys have a lot more experience of tuning etc but here are some thoughts from me based on my recent experience.

my car (as you can see from the dynos on my thread) is now running at 510bhp and 450ftlbs. It has the original injectors, fuel pump (not orig wiring though!) and cast pistons. the agreement with Area52 was that if they needed to replace parts then they would. they are monitoring enough during testing to see if the fuel pump or injectors are lacking etc.

I remember Mike T telling me he managed about 430bhp (ish from memory) without changing anything, IIRC, on his car but this was pushing it way harder than he would ever recommend for a paying customer. I'm guessing they like to leave some headroom.

The valve springs on my car were uprated. i was originally only aiming for just over 400bhp, so uprated springs would not have been necessary, but was always expecting to go further in the future. as it turns out i did ha ha. even now the springs may not have been necessary but with all the heads apart and wanting to be on the safe side it seemed a no brainer to fit them.

I think Gadge had it about right...

uprated turbos
clutch
intercooler
exhaust
remap
uprated box with lsd (i had the 5spd sorted so will let you know how long it lasts)

maybe cams as well!

one final thing... definitely buy one that has been sorted, must be cheaper and you dont need to be without the car while it is being sorted ha ha.

cheers

James

[ThunderCat]

thanks guys, lots to think about there. any one recommend some good places to get work done, tuning, custom exhaust etc.

I keep hearing area52, they seem to be a popuar place. Any others, my hometown is in wiltshire.

Cheers