Suspension Geometry
Discussion
Gents
Wonder if you could assist.
I have had my 3R now for just over a year now, and am enjoying the experience, apart from its appetite for rear tyres.
I put on a set of Bridgestones rears, and within 4000miles they are on the legal limit on the inner edges. The car is used exclusively on the road, no track days etc.
The camber and toe in readings are listed below, and am informed by my more knowledgable colleagues that these are within limits, and to have the handling it's the price you pay.
Total Toe 8.4mm
Half Toe +4.6mm +3.8mm
Camber -1 deg 58min -2deg 6min
Set Back -21min
Thrust Angle +4mins
Track Difference +13mins
Are they correct, that the expected life of the rear tyres is 4000miles?
Phil
Wonder if you could assist.
I have had my 3R now for just over a year now, and am enjoying the experience, apart from its appetite for rear tyres.
I put on a set of Bridgestones rears, and within 4000miles they are on the legal limit on the inner edges. The car is used exclusively on the road, no track days etc.
The camber and toe in readings are listed below, and am informed by my more knowledgable colleagues that these are within limits, and to have the handling it's the price you pay.
Total Toe 8.4mm
Half Toe +4.6mm +3.8mm
Camber -1 deg 58min -2deg 6min
Set Back -21min
Thrust Angle +4mins
Track Difference +13mins
Are they correct, that the expected life of the rear tyres is 4000miles?
Phil
PhilD3R said:
Gents
The camber and toe in readings are listed below, and am informed by my more knowledgable colleagues that these are within limits, and to have the handling it's the price you pay.
Total Toe 8.4mm
Half Toe +4.6mm +3.8mm
Camber -1 deg 58min -2deg 6min
Set Back -21min
Thrust Angle +4mins
Track Difference +13mins
Are they correct, that the expected life of the rear tyres is 4000miles?
Phil
The total toe in on the rear should be 6mm max, the camber sounds good for a track setup but probably too much for the road hence the wear. Not sure about the setback, thrust angle does not seem too good. The camber and toe in readings are listed below, and am informed by my more knowledgable colleagues that these are within limits, and to have the handling it's the price you pay.
Total Toe 8.4mm
Half Toe +4.6mm +3.8mm
Camber -1 deg 58min -2deg 6min
Set Back -21min
Thrust Angle +4mins
Track Difference +13mins
Are they correct, that the expected life of the rear tyres is 4000miles?
Phil
I just set up the geometry on mine recently but i got all my advice from Steve (Daddysumo) hopefully he will be along in a bit to give you some advice.
If the total toe given is positive (ie toe-in) then it is slightly too much for the rear tyres of a Noble. As others have said it should be 4-6mm (total). However, this is unlikely to be the reason your tyres are wearing so badly; too much toe-in tends too 'feather' the outside of the tyre , not the inside. Too much negative camber will scrub the insides, but you're saying the camber is approx -2 degrees, which is OK.
When did you get your geometry checked and was it by someone who 'knows' Nobles? I would definitely get all your suspension components checked out and have the geometry redone - there is no way a set of Bridgestones should wear out in 4000miles. Sounds like you have negative camber plus toe-out at the rear which certainly would wear the inside shoulders quickly.
When did you get your geometry checked and was it by someone who 'knows' Nobles? I would definitely get all your suspension components checked out and have the geometry redone - there is no way a set of Bridgestones should wear out in 4000miles. Sounds like you have negative camber plus toe-out at the rear which certainly would wear the inside shoulders quickly.
Gents
Thanks for feedback.
It does appear that there is a problem.
The figures quoted were from the Tyre supplier who obtained the readings using Laser equipment. I doubt if they are particularly experienced with Noble's.
Could anyone recommend someone experience around Aylesbury area?
Thanks for feedback.
It does appear that there is a problem.
The figures quoted were from the Tyre supplier who obtained the readings using Laser equipment. I doubt if they are particularly experienced with Noble's.
Could anyone recommend someone experience around Aylesbury area?
R0162 said:
PhilD3R said:
Gents
The camber and toe in readings are listed below, and am informed by my more knowledgable colleagues that these are within limits, and to have the handling it's the price you pay.
Total Toe 8.4mm
Half Toe +4.6mm +3.8mm
Camber -1 deg 58min -2deg 6min
Set Back -21min
Thrust Angle +4mins
Track Difference +13mins
Are they correct, that the expected life of the rear tyres is 4000miles?
Phil
The camber and toe in readings are listed below, and am informed by my more knowledgable colleagues that these are within limits, and to have the handling it's the price you pay.
Total Toe 8.4mm
Half Toe +4.6mm +3.8mm
Camber -1 deg 58min -2deg 6min
Set Back -21min
Thrust Angle +4mins
Track Difference +13mins
Are they correct, that the expected life of the rear tyres is 4000miles?
Phil
The total toe in on the rear should be 6mm max, the camber sounds good for a track setup but probably too much for the road hence the wear. Not sure about the setback, thrust angle does not seem too good.
I just set up the geometry on mine recently but i got all my advice from Steve (Daddysumo) hopefully he will be along in a bit to give you some advice.
Thrust angle should be as close to zero as possible, this will bring the track back into line as at the moment you are 'crabbing' when driving in a straight line,the wheels are pointing the right way, but the body is at an angle to the forward motion.
As others have commented 3mm toe in per side on the rear is generally good IMO,your neg camber is not excessive,check you dont have worn track control arms or balljoints.
PhilD3R said:
Gents
Thanks for feedback.
It does appear that there is a problem.
The figures quoted were from the Tyre supplier who obtained the readings using Laser equipment. I doubt if they are particularly experienced with Noble's.
Could anyone recommend someone experience around Aylesbury area?
A laser alignment may seem high-tech, but it will only be as good as the operator and the state of calibration of the equipment.Thanks for feedback.
It does appear that there is a problem.
The figures quoted were from the Tyre supplier who obtained the readings using Laser equipment. I doubt if they are particularly experienced with Noble's.
Could anyone recommend someone experience around Aylesbury area?
For a good alignment measure and/or adjustment, the car should be weighted for the driver and the proper ride height confirmed or adjusted prior to the alignment. (Ride height affects camber and toe.) Plus, if the ride height needs to be adjusted, it is necessary to loosen all suspension attachment bolts while making the adjustment and then re-torque them after the proper ride height is set.
Edited by JLSELAN on Wednesday 16th March 20:21
When I set up a car, I usually try to have it as close as possible to the way it's going to be used - that means weighted for the driver, average amount of fuel, tires set to the right pressures, etc. If the person always has his wife in the passenger seat and mother-in-law in the trunk, I weight the car that way, too. Then I set the ride height, followed by the alignment.
Could you also post the measurements for the front wheels? Might make diagnosing a little easier...
Could you also post the measurements for the front wheels? Might make diagnosing a little easier...
Jim O
Thanks for the info.
The front geometry is as follows:-
Total Toe 1.6mm
Half Toe -0.7mm +2.2
Camber -0deg55mins -0deg51mins
Castor +10deg32mins +9deg28mins
King Pin Angle +14deg01mins +14deg10mins
Included Angle +13deg06mins +13deg19mins
Set Back -0deg12mins -0deg12mins
The front tyres were new when I bought the car 13 months ago, and have worn "normally" ie even wear across width. I have done about 6000 miles and would estimate that they will last a further 6000miles comfortably.
The car handles well, with even tracking under accelaration and braking with no tendancy to dive one way or the other. It is upset by uneven surfaces, but would expect that given the low profile tyres and reasonable amount of negative camber settings.
With regard to the toe angles at the rear, could worn suspension bushes be a factor?
The car is six years old, and has covered 37,000 miles and there is no record of the bushes ever having been changed.
When I change the rear tyres will get the toe in angle changed, which appears to be a relativeluy straight forward task (famous last words) and go from there, unless there is anything elese obviously awry.
Phil
Thanks for the info.
The front geometry is as follows:-
Total Toe 1.6mm
Half Toe -0.7mm +2.2
Camber -0deg55mins -0deg51mins
Castor +10deg32mins +9deg28mins
King Pin Angle +14deg01mins +14deg10mins
Included Angle +13deg06mins +13deg19mins
Set Back -0deg12mins -0deg12mins
The front tyres were new when I bought the car 13 months ago, and have worn "normally" ie even wear across width. I have done about 6000 miles and would estimate that they will last a further 6000miles comfortably.
The car handles well, with even tracking under accelaration and braking with no tendancy to dive one way or the other. It is upset by uneven surfaces, but would expect that given the low profile tyres and reasonable amount of negative camber settings.
With regard to the toe angles at the rear, could worn suspension bushes be a factor?
The car is six years old, and has covered 37,000 miles and there is no record of the bushes ever having been changed.
When I change the rear tyres will get the toe in angle changed, which appears to be a relativeluy straight forward task (famous last words) and go from there, unless there is anything elese obviously awry.
Phil
Jim O
Thanks for the info.
The front geometry is as follows:-
Total Toe 1.6mm
Half Toe -0.7mm +2.2
Camber -0deg55mins -0deg51mins
Castor +10deg32mins +9deg28mins
King Pin Angle +14deg01mins +14deg10mins
Included Angle +13deg06mins +13deg19mins
Set Back -0deg12mins -0deg12mins
The front tyres were new when I bought the car 13 months ago, and have worn "normally" ie even wear across width. I have done about 6000 miles and would estimate that they will last a further 6000miles comfortably.
The car handles well, with even tracking under accelaration and braking with no tendancy to dive one way or the other. It is upset by uneven surfaces, but would expect that given the low profile tyres and reasonable amount of negative camber settings.
With regard to the toe angles at the rear, could worn suspension bushes be a factor?
The car is six years old, and has covered 37,000 miles and there is no record of the bushes ever having been changed.
When I change the rear tyres will get the toe in angle changed, which appears to be a relativeluy straight forward task (famous last words) and go from there, unless there is anything elese obviously awry.
Phil
Thanks for the info.
The front geometry is as follows:-
Total Toe 1.6mm
Half Toe -0.7mm +2.2
Camber -0deg55mins -0deg51mins
Castor +10deg32mins +9deg28mins
King Pin Angle +14deg01mins +14deg10mins
Included Angle +13deg06mins +13deg19mins
Set Back -0deg12mins -0deg12mins
The front tyres were new when I bought the car 13 months ago, and have worn "normally" ie even wear across width. I have done about 6000 miles and would estimate that they will last a further 6000miles comfortably.
The car handles well, with even tracking under accelaration and braking with no tendancy to dive one way or the other. It is upset by uneven surfaces, but would expect that given the low profile tyres and reasonable amount of negative camber settings.
With regard to the toe angles at the rear, could worn suspension bushes be a factor?
The car is six years old, and has covered 37,000 miles and there is no record of the bushes ever having been changed.
When I change the rear tyres will get the toe in angle changed, which appears to be a relativeluy straight forward task (famous last words) and go from there, unless there is anything elese obviously awry.
Phil
PhilD3R said:
Jim O
Thanks for the info.
The front geometry is as follows:-
Total Toe 1.6mm
Half Toe -0.7mm +2.2
Camber -0deg55mins -0deg51mins
Castor +10deg32mins +9deg28mins
King Pin Angle +14deg01mins +14deg10mins
Included Angle +13deg06mins +13deg19mins
Set Back -0deg12mins -0deg12mins
The front tyres were new when I bought the car 13 months ago, and have worn "normally" ie even wear across width. I have done about 6000 miles and would estimate that they will last a further 6000miles comfortably.
The car handles well, with even tracking under accelaration and braking with no tendancy to dive one way or the other. It is upset by uneven surfaces, but would expect that given the low profile tyres and reasonable amount of negative camber settings.
With regard to the toe angles at the rear, could worn suspension bushes be a factor?
The car is six years old, and has covered 37,000 miles and there is no record of the bushes ever having been changed.
When I change the rear tyres will get the toe in angle changed, which appears to be a relativeluy straight forward task (famous last words) and go from there, unless there is anything elese obviously awry.
Phil
Thanks for the info.
The front geometry is as follows:-
Total Toe 1.6mm
Half Toe -0.7mm +2.2
Camber -0deg55mins -0deg51mins
Castor +10deg32mins +9deg28mins
King Pin Angle +14deg01mins +14deg10mins
Included Angle +13deg06mins +13deg19mins
Set Back -0deg12mins -0deg12mins
The front tyres were new when I bought the car 13 months ago, and have worn "normally" ie even wear across width. I have done about 6000 miles and would estimate that they will last a further 6000miles comfortably.
The car handles well, with even tracking under accelaration and braking with no tendancy to dive one way or the other. It is upset by uneven surfaces, but would expect that given the low profile tyres and reasonable amount of negative camber settings.
With regard to the toe angles at the rear, could worn suspension bushes be a factor?
The car is six years old, and has covered 37,000 miles and there is no record of the bushes ever having been changed.
When I change the rear tyres will get the toe in angle changed, which appears to be a relativeluy straight forward task (famous last words) and go from there, unless there is anything elese obviously awry.
Phil
Hi Phil....
Total Toe 1.6mm......... in ?
Half Toe -0.7mm out? +2.2 in?
If so then get that adjusted to both set out I would recommend IMO.
Edited by daddysumo on Friday 18th March 14:57
daddysumo said:
PhilD3R said:
Jim O
Thanks for the info.
The front geometry is as follows:-
Total Toe 1.6mm
Half Toe -0.7mm +2.2
Camber -0deg55mins -0deg51mins
Castor +10deg32mins +9deg28mins
King Pin Angle +14deg01mins +14deg10mins
Included Angle +13deg06mins +13deg19mins
Set Back -0deg12mins -0deg12mins
The front tyres were new when I bought the car 13 months ago, and have worn "normally" ie even wear across width. I have done about 6000 miles and would estimate that they will last a further 6000miles comfortably.
The car handles well, with even tracking under accelaration and braking with no tendancy to dive one way or the other. It is upset by uneven surfaces, but would expect that given the low profile tyres and reasonable amount of negative camber settings.
With regard to the toe angles at the rear, could worn suspension bushes be a factor?
The car is six years old, and has covered 37,000 miles and there is no record of the bushes ever having been changed.
When I change the rear tyres will get the toe in angle changed, which appears to be a relativeluy straight forward task (famous last words) and go from there, unless there is anything elese obviously awry.
Phil
Hi Phil....Thanks for the info.
The front geometry is as follows:-
Total Toe 1.6mm
Half Toe -0.7mm +2.2
Camber -0deg55mins -0deg51mins
Castor +10deg32mins +9deg28mins
King Pin Angle +14deg01mins +14deg10mins
Included Angle +13deg06mins +13deg19mins
Set Back -0deg12mins -0deg12mins
The front tyres were new when I bought the car 13 months ago, and have worn "normally" ie even wear across width. I have done about 6000 miles and would estimate that they will last a further 6000miles comfortably.
The car handles well, with even tracking under accelaration and braking with no tendancy to dive one way or the other. It is upset by uneven surfaces, but would expect that given the low profile tyres and reasonable amount of negative camber settings.
With regard to the toe angles at the rear, could worn suspension bushes be a factor?
The car is six years old, and has covered 37,000 miles and there is no record of the bushes ever having been changed.
When I change the rear tyres will get the toe in angle changed, which appears to be a relativeluy straight forward task (famous last words) and go from there, unless there is anything elese obviously awry.
Phil
Total Toe 1.6mm......... in ?
Half Toe -0.7mm out? +2.2 in?
If so then get that adjusted to both set out I would recommend IMO.
Edited by daddysumo on Friday 18th March 14:57
PhilD3R said:
Total Toe 1.6mm
Half Toe -0.7mm +2.2
Ah - right there I see a problem. If you take the measurements without the front wheels centered, all the measurements will be thrown off because of the Noble's front suspension design. Along with that is the issue already identified of the front being toed-in instead of toed-out. Seems to me that you need to find a different alignment shop... Half Toe -0.7mm +2.2
PhilD3R said:
Gents
Wonder if you could assist.
I have had my 3R now for just over a year now, and am enjoying the experience, apart from its appetite for rear tyres.
I put on a set of Bridgestones rears, and within 4000miles they are on the legal limit on the inner edges. The car is used exclusively on the road, no track days etc.
The camber and toe in readings are listed below, and am informed by my more knowledgable colleagues that these are within limits, and to have the handling it's the price you pay.
Total Toe 8.4mm
Half Toe +4.6mm +3.8mm
Camber -1 deg 58min -2deg 6min
Set Back -21min
Thrust Angle +4mins
Track Difference +13mins
Are they correct, that the expected life of the rear tyres is 4000miles?
Phil
I had the same (a little worse 1500 miles ish)on a set of rear Corsas.Wonder if you could assist.
I have had my 3R now for just over a year now, and am enjoying the experience, apart from its appetite for rear tyres.
I put on a set of Bridgestones rears, and within 4000miles they are on the legal limit on the inner edges. The car is used exclusively on the road, no track days etc.
The camber and toe in readings are listed below, and am informed by my more knowledgable colleagues that these are within limits, and to have the handling it's the price you pay.
Total Toe 8.4mm
Half Toe +4.6mm +3.8mm
Camber -1 deg 58min -2deg 6min
Set Back -21min
Thrust Angle +4mins
Track Difference +13mins
Are they correct, that the expected life of the rear tyres is 4000miles?
Phil
In the end I had the uprights machined and shimmed for camber and a full geo done at Plans motorsport.
Can't remember the numbers but my next set did 6000 miles with a lot of tread to spare
Gassing Station | Noble | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff