Discussion
I`ve just made a start on doing the tunnel cooling mod. I`m trying to find the easist way of doing it with the minimal amount of dismantling. My intention was to leave the rad and heater box in place and go in from the front under the heater box. It all looks possible if you remove the vertical panel behind the rad and in front of the heater box. Someone on here said this is easy to do - well I`ve removed all the screws but it`s not going to come out because:
a)There is a foam rubber strip glued to the front of it at the bottom which fouls the rad fan shround as you try to pull it upwards and out, and
b) There is a rear facing `L` section at the extreme lower edge which is not going to go through the slot created by the side panels and the fan shroud.
If I take off the fan shroud as well, will I then be able to get this panel out past the aircon hoses and air trunking etc? Are there any other things to look out for? I`m taking photos as I go.
a)There is a foam rubber strip glued to the front of it at the bottom which fouls the rad fan shround as you try to pull it upwards and out, and
b) There is a rear facing `L` section at the extreme lower edge which is not going to go through the slot created by the side panels and the fan shroud.
If I take off the fan shroud as well, will I then be able to get this panel out past the aircon hoses and air trunking etc? Are there any other things to look out for? I`m taking photos as I go.
BobE said:
I`ve just made a start on doing the tunnel cooling mod. I`m trying to find the easist way of doing it with the minimal amount of dismantling. My intention was to leave the rad and heater box in place and go in from the front under the heater box. It all looks possible if you remove the vertical panel behind the rad and in front of the heater box. Someone on here said this is easy to do - well I`ve removed all the screws but it`s not going to come out because:
a)There is a foam rubber strip glued to the front of it at the bottom which fouls the rad fan shround as you try to pull it upwards and out, and
b) There is a rear facing `L` section at the extreme lower edge which is not going to go through the slot created by the side panels and the fan shroud.
If I take off the fan shroud as well, will I then be able to get this panel out past the aircon hoses and air trunking etc? Are there any other things to look out for? I`m taking photos as I go.
Did mine with the heater matrix in place and with existing duct work.a)There is a foam rubber strip glued to the front of it at the bottom which fouls the rad fan shround as you try to pull it upwards and out, and
b) There is a rear facing `L` section at the extreme lower edge which is not going to go through the slot created by the side panels and the fan shroud.
If I take off the fan shroud as well, will I then be able to get this panel out past the aircon hoses and air trunking etc? Are there any other things to look out for? I`m taking photos as I go.
I remove the fan shroud, along with the vertical panel - remove the screws on both, and pull both of them out at the same time. Remember to unplug the fans first.
Once you get the fan shroud off, be sure to cover the radiator with a piece of cardboard or a towel or something, so you don't accidentally bash up the fins. It also makes it much more comfortable to work on...
Once you get the fan shroud off, be sure to cover the radiator with a piece of cardboard or a towel or something, so you don't accidentally bash up the fins. It also makes it much more comfortable to work on...
More input from across the pond... Once you get the vertical panel and fans out, they will seem easy compared to the small panel that is your goal. I had to finally yank on that thing like a gorilla to get it out! On the US M400 there are two pieces of metal that brace the steering rack mounting points - you need to remove the rear bolts and loosen the front bolts so you can swing those braces out of the way. Also on the US M400, there is a brake pipe tee fitting and a length of brake pipe that prevents the panel from easily pulling out. I removed the nut holding the tee fitting in place and carefully pulled the brake pipe towards the front of the car to get a little room.
If you get frustrated, take a break for a half hour! It's not a fun job, but it can be done at home.
Jeff
If you get frustrated, take a break for a half hour! It's not a fun job, but it can be done at home.
Jeff
Thanks for input your guys - I made a start today - what a job! I guess all cars are slightly different but they obviously fixed my plate in place and then wired and plumbed everything across it. Full story to follow....
On a related note has anyone tried one of these:
http://www.firebox.com/product/2505/USB-Snakescope...
Could be useful for jobs like this and looking at turbos/manifolds etc.
On a related note has anyone tried one of these:
http://www.firebox.com/product/2505/USB-Snakescope...
Could be useful for jobs like this and looking at turbos/manifolds etc.
A few pics for you, the problem is getting the tunnel blanking plate off, sometimes the fixings are hidden behind the steering rack brace.
After taking it off and putting it back on a couple of times i realised that the thin bits of plate that do sod all are the problem, so i cut them off.
After taking it off and putting it back on a couple of times i realised that the thin bits of plate that do sod all are the problem, so i cut them off.
Thanks - I`m doing the same - Noble had already bent back the centre `finger` and the outers do naff all. I`m also taking a tad off the top so there`s another escape route at the front for hot air when your stuck in a jam. I found my hoses were too short so now I`m waiting for some more to allow them to connect without stretching them too much. It`s been a bit of a saga - I`ll post some info when it`s done.
Just coming to the end of this mod now so I`m posting some info and photos. I`m from the school where I think it`s best to disturb as little as you can when you do a job - there`s a saying that when ever you solve a problem you always create a new one, so you need to make sure the new one is much smaller than the old one... Hence I`ve done this mod with the floor, radiator, steering rack, and heater box all in place. It is not easy - you need small hands, a good selection of screw drivers from the very stubby to the very long and lots of patience.... You will also have back ache and cut hands as a bonus. I will also preface this post by saying your car maybe easier to do the mod on or at least different to mine.
I decided to mainly work from the offside with the car in my garage. I took a photo of the two hoses that will feed the tunnel - so I know exactly how they were fitted - and then removed them from the front intakes to allow more room to stand close to the car:
The next stage is to remove the fan shroud and the vertical plate that sits in front of the heater box having first unplugged the fans. I did this in two stages but it`s probably best to take both the plate and shroud off as one. If you are like me then you`ll be very lucky not to scratch the inner wheel arches as you take them out. On my car one of the front clam wire stay fixings was not on the shroud so I could leave the clam in place and secured on one side. On the other side one screw holds the horn in place so you need to disconnect and remove it. The screws on my car were socket head cap screws, 4mm hex, with 10mm A/F nuts.
When the parts are removed you see this - the two hoses disappear behind the steering rack:
You need to put some protective foam/sheets/cardboard on the radiator to protect it as you work.
The next photo shows the problem you now face...You have to accesss a vertical aluminium plate behind this lot.
The plate is secured by 6 self tapping screws with posidrive heads. On my car as well as the steering rack and siren there were aircon low side hoses, power steering hoses, clutch hydraulic pipes and brake pipes - and part of the wiring loom across the plate. I found you needed different length screw drivers to get at the screws and lots of patience. The two middle screws are behind the steering rack support bolts and you need to take the bolts out to get at them. The bolts are socket head cap screws 5mm hex with nyloc nuts 13mm A/F. I went mad trying to get an allen key in the head of the passenger side one which is right under the heater box. Eventually I realised a small road chipping had landed inside the hex stopping the key fitting.... (The car is also lighter having vacuumed out all the grit and lost washers I found on the front floor/undertray). The two lowest screws are also close to the brake lines - the drivers side has a P clip on it and the passenger side one is behind a brake T union. I managed to undo the drivers side one but I couldn`t shift the opposite side part. In the end I used my Dremel with a small ball end mill to grind away the `leg` from the plate so it could be removed leaving the leg and it`s protective rubber extrusion in place in the car. This also made it easier to get the plate out which is not easy - and it also helps to remove all the air hoses from the front of the heater box. When my plate came out it looked like this:
The right hand leg I cut off - the centre leg had been bent back by Noble as they couldn`t get all the pipes/hoses/lines and wiring past it.
I then took some off the top of the plate - to allow hot air to escape when the car is stationary and also off the bottom to clear all the pipes etc which weren`t sealed anyway. I then fitted two 63mm OD aluminium bosses from Merlin motorsport. I positioned the holes so I could actually have enough space to get the hoses out from behind the rack and miss the power steering hoses etc. I also had to slightly re-position a brake line by cutting through a tie wrap. The tubes are held to the plate with stainless M3 screws and nuts. Make sure you fit the bosses correctly and don`t turn the plate back to front or the fixing screws won`t line up....
The hoses on my car were just too short to stretch to the new mountings so I bought a metre of 63mm ID tube again from Merlin and attached half lengths to the plate bosses with tie wraps and jubilee clips. This hose whilst the same ID as the original material has a smaller OD over the convolutions so it`s easier to fit when you have the bosses very close together as I have here.
This arrangement also makes it easier to get things back together - you don`t have long lengths of hose flaying around. With some difficulty you can then re-mount the plate to the car with the short hoses pre-attached and replace the steering rack bolts and the offside brake line P clip etc, followed by a close check that everything is correctly positioned and nothing is going to chaff anywhere.
The nearside hoses can then be re-attached and the two offside open holes into the heater box now need to be blocked off. I found the caps from 300ml aerosols, (ones that don`t have screwdriver cutouts) are a perfect fit in the holes, and when pushed in don`t interfere with the heater reciculation flap. I held them in place again with M3 screws etc.
I then used a 150mm length of 64mm OD aluminium water pipe joiner (again from Merlin), cut in half, to link the new hoses to cut down old ones:
All held in place with tie wraps and then I re-mounted the hoses to the front ducts making sure the wheels could not foul them on full lock.
Then it`s back with the vertical plate and shroud and horn - reconnect the fans etc. Job done!
I`ve currently left the baffles in the front intakes - can anyone advise whether it really does improve things further if these are removed?
I decided to mainly work from the offside with the car in my garage. I took a photo of the two hoses that will feed the tunnel - so I know exactly how they were fitted - and then removed them from the front intakes to allow more room to stand close to the car:
The next stage is to remove the fan shroud and the vertical plate that sits in front of the heater box having first unplugged the fans. I did this in two stages but it`s probably best to take both the plate and shroud off as one. If you are like me then you`ll be very lucky not to scratch the inner wheel arches as you take them out. On my car one of the front clam wire stay fixings was not on the shroud so I could leave the clam in place and secured on one side. On the other side one screw holds the horn in place so you need to disconnect and remove it. The screws on my car were socket head cap screws, 4mm hex, with 10mm A/F nuts.
When the parts are removed you see this - the two hoses disappear behind the steering rack:
You need to put some protective foam/sheets/cardboard on the radiator to protect it as you work.
The next photo shows the problem you now face...You have to accesss a vertical aluminium plate behind this lot.
The plate is secured by 6 self tapping screws with posidrive heads. On my car as well as the steering rack and siren there were aircon low side hoses, power steering hoses, clutch hydraulic pipes and brake pipes - and part of the wiring loom across the plate. I found you needed different length screw drivers to get at the screws and lots of patience. The two middle screws are behind the steering rack support bolts and you need to take the bolts out to get at them. The bolts are socket head cap screws 5mm hex with nyloc nuts 13mm A/F. I went mad trying to get an allen key in the head of the passenger side one which is right under the heater box. Eventually I realised a small road chipping had landed inside the hex stopping the key fitting.... (The car is also lighter having vacuumed out all the grit and lost washers I found on the front floor/undertray). The two lowest screws are also close to the brake lines - the drivers side has a P clip on it and the passenger side one is behind a brake T union. I managed to undo the drivers side one but I couldn`t shift the opposite side part. In the end I used my Dremel with a small ball end mill to grind away the `leg` from the plate so it could be removed leaving the leg and it`s protective rubber extrusion in place in the car. This also made it easier to get the plate out which is not easy - and it also helps to remove all the air hoses from the front of the heater box. When my plate came out it looked like this:
The right hand leg I cut off - the centre leg had been bent back by Noble as they couldn`t get all the pipes/hoses/lines and wiring past it.
I then took some off the top of the plate - to allow hot air to escape when the car is stationary and also off the bottom to clear all the pipes etc which weren`t sealed anyway. I then fitted two 63mm OD aluminium bosses from Merlin motorsport. I positioned the holes so I could actually have enough space to get the hoses out from behind the rack and miss the power steering hoses etc. I also had to slightly re-position a brake line by cutting through a tie wrap. The tubes are held to the plate with stainless M3 screws and nuts. Make sure you fit the bosses correctly and don`t turn the plate back to front or the fixing screws won`t line up....
The hoses on my car were just too short to stretch to the new mountings so I bought a metre of 63mm ID tube again from Merlin and attached half lengths to the plate bosses with tie wraps and jubilee clips. This hose whilst the same ID as the original material has a smaller OD over the convolutions so it`s easier to fit when you have the bosses very close together as I have here.
This arrangement also makes it easier to get things back together - you don`t have long lengths of hose flaying around. With some difficulty you can then re-mount the plate to the car with the short hoses pre-attached and replace the steering rack bolts and the offside brake line P clip etc, followed by a close check that everything is correctly positioned and nothing is going to chaff anywhere.
The nearside hoses can then be re-attached and the two offside open holes into the heater box now need to be blocked off. I found the caps from 300ml aerosols, (ones that don`t have screwdriver cutouts) are a perfect fit in the holes, and when pushed in don`t interfere with the heater reciculation flap. I held them in place again with M3 screws etc.
I then used a 150mm length of 64mm OD aluminium water pipe joiner (again from Merlin), cut in half, to link the new hoses to cut down old ones:
All held in place with tie wraps and then I re-mounted the hoses to the front ducts making sure the wheels could not foul them on full lock.
Then it`s back with the vertical plate and shroud and horn - reconnect the fans etc. Job done!
I`ve currently left the baffles in the front intakes - can anyone advise whether it really does improve things further if these are removed?
Edited by BobE on Tuesday 26th April 21:34
Edited by BobE on Thursday 28th April 09:06
BobE said:
Job done!
I`ve currently left the baffles in the front intakes - can anyone advise whether it really does improve things further if these are removed?
Were you a technical writer in a former life Bob?I`ve currently left the baffles in the front intakes - can anyone advise whether it really does improve things further if these are removed?
Edited by BobE on Tuesday 26th April 21:34
So much detail!!RE; baffles and I only cut holes rather than removed completely, I'm not sure about the cooling/airflow effect but I find you you do get a lot more debris coming through to the point where a Porsche Cayenne almost blinded me with all the crap it threw up when accelerating "briskly" up the A1M. It was the same with early Elises where the intakes were open but later versions had some mesh to avoid complete large insects etc coming through in one piece.
Rob
Rob_W said:
Were you a technical writer in a former life Bob?So much detail!!
No I wasn`t but I think it helps (?) to include enough info on how to do the job, what tools you need and where you can get the parts!So much detail!!I took the car out yesterday - hot(ish) and sunny and it was the first time the car was cool and fresh inside on such a day - and my shirt wasn`t stuck to my back when I got out. I parked the car in the shade at home for 10 minutes before putting it away and when I got back in it was like a sauna. The amount of heat soak from the tunnel etc when there is no cooling air is amazing. A really good improvement to the car - even though it`s now not original....
BobE said:
No I wasn`t but I think it helps (?) to include enough info on how to do the job, what tools you need and where you can get the parts!
I took the car out yesterday - hot(ish) and sunny and it was the first time the car was cool and fresh inside on such a day - and my shirt wasn`t stuck to my back when I got out. I parked the car in the shade at home for 10 minutes before putting it away and when I got back in it was like a sauna. The amount of heat soak from the tunnel etc when there is no cooling air is amazing. A really good improvement to the car - even though it`s now not original....
Ive done this mod recently and i really noticed the difference today!I took the car out yesterday - hot(ish) and sunny and it was the first time the car was cool and fresh inside on such a day - and my shirt wasn`t stuck to my back when I got out. I parked the car in the shade at home for 10 minutes before putting it away and when I got back in it was like a sauna. The amount of heat soak from the tunnel etc when there is no cooling air is amazing. A really good improvement to the car - even though it`s now not original....
Its actually pushing hot air into the engine bay, if you take off the tunnel cover you can feel how hot the air is coming through where the gear lever aperture is, the air heats up[ even more as it goes to the back of the car. So you can imagine how hot it used to get in the tunnel before we did the coling mod, no wonder people were experiencing melted wires and cables, the air leaving the tunnel is flowing enough to remove hot air around the front turbo, if you can keep it moving, tests in the US show that the air stalls in this area.
The tunnel cooling mod needs to be done in conjunction with others mods to remove hot air and improve airflow through engine bay, its more about getting hot air out than pushing more air in, or finding the right balance between the two.
I haave removed all heat shields in order to improve airflow, instead of shielding the hot areas i have heat wrapped everything to stop the heat from entering the engine bay in the first instance, this can also help improve gas flow through exhaust system.
The car needs more places for hot air to exit otherwise you get stalling and the rear clam acts like a parachute, venting the whale tail is proven to work, and venting the wheel arches is also proven to improve air flow, as with adding fans to pull hot air out.
Venting the front wheel arches allows better airflow down the side of the car into the side pods.
There are many things you can do, but above are the mst effective methods, combine them all and you will be running supercool, if you can beat the heat then it is better for everything on the car.
The tunnel cooling mod needs to be done in conjunction with others mods to remove hot air and improve airflow through engine bay, its more about getting hot air out than pushing more air in, or finding the right balance between the two.
I haave removed all heat shields in order to improve airflow, instead of shielding the hot areas i have heat wrapped everything to stop the heat from entering the engine bay in the first instance, this can also help improve gas flow through exhaust system.
The car needs more places for hot air to exit otherwise you get stalling and the rear clam acts like a parachute, venting the whale tail is proven to work, and venting the wheel arches is also proven to improve air flow, as with adding fans to pull hot air out.
Venting the front wheel arches allows better airflow down the side of the car into the side pods.
There are many things you can do, but above are the mst effective methods, combine them all and you will be running supercool, if you can beat the heat then it is better for everything on the car.
R0162 said:
Its actually pushing hot air into the engine bay, if you take off the tunnel cover you can feel how hot the air is coming through where the gear lever aperture is
I believe it's actually hot air being drawn backwards down the tunnel from the engine - relativly straight forward effects of a car shape going through the air with vents in the bottom of the tunnel and a cabin not vented to air.The tunnel mod simply equalises (probably adds a small amount of positive pressure) the pressure between the engine bay and the tunnel and hence stops the air flowing backwards.
J
joust said:
believe it's actually hot air being drawn backwards down the tunnel from the engine - relativly straight forward effects of a car shape going through the air with vents in the bottom of the tunnel and a cabin not vented to air.
The tunnel mod simply equalises (probably adds a small amount of positive pressure) the pressure between the engine bay and the tunnel and hence stops the air flowing backwards.
J
Yes indeed. The rear engine bay gets positively pressurised relative to the passenger compartment, so hot engine bay air flows forward through teh tunnel. It steps up a gear when you open the windows slightly and let even more air out of the cabin to be replaced by hot air blown in from teh engine bay. The tunnel mod reverses the pressure diffferential so air flows along the tunnel and into the engine bay.The tunnel mod simply equalises (probably adds a small amount of positive pressure) the pressure between the engine bay and the tunnel and hence stops the air flowing backwards.
J
A USA member acheived the same effect by installing a complete bulkhead at the rear end of the engine bay hence isolating the tunnel from teh engine. Had same effect but none of the attendant spin of benefits.
Regards
Paul C
joust said:
believe it's actually hot air being drawn backwards down the tunnel from the engine - relativly straight forward effects of a car shape going through the air with vents in the bottom of the tunnel and a cabin not vented to air.
The tunnel mod simply equalises (probably adds a small amount of positive pressure) the pressure between the engine bay and the tunnel and hence stops the air flowing backwards.
J
The cabin is vented to air, i have found 6 locations, some of the vents are very big and located in the top of the footwell covered over by a bit of sound insulation, 2 more are in the roof behind your head and are visible, more are in the sills behind the trim.The tunnel mod simply equalises (probably adds a small amount of positive pressure) the pressure between the engine bay and the tunnel and hence stops the air flowing backwards.
J
I have experienced first hand that the air is flowing from the front of the tunnel to the back and that the air starts cold at the front and gets hotter on its way to the engine bay.
Air is most definately being "forced" from the front scoop down the tunnel and into the engine bay, and the ammount of air increases with speed.
I am pretty sure it is not being "drawn backwards" by the engine, as the problem at the engine bay side of the tunnel is that air stalls, due to the engine and gearbox creating a barrier between the front and back.
Without good airflow at the back, the air at the front gets trapped, once you get good airflow at the back then the airflow from the front can travel up and over and around the sides of the engine taking the hot air with it.
Hence the tunnel cooling works to cool the tunnel but does not help with cooling the engine bay as a stand alone mod.
Just to clarify we are talking about when the car is moving and you are ramming air into the tunnel from the front scoops.
R0162 said:
The cabin is vented to air, i have found 6 locations, some of the vents are very big and located in the top of the footwell covered over by a bit of sound insulation, 2 more are in the roof behind your head and are visible, more are in the sills behind the trim.
Not quite - it's vented to the body, and hence subject to the pressure that is at the point of the body it's vented to. Hence when you open the window on a standard car with a sealed off front plate, the gaiter will "billow up" showing that air is coming through. As it's hot air, and there is no way for hot air to get in from the front on a standard car, it's coming from the engine.As Paul says above, this has been proved by the US guys and really is simple air dynamics.
J
Pushed/ pulled??
Paul agrees with me that air is being pushed into the engine bay (post tunnel mod) thats exactly what i stated before you corrected me??
You corrected me saying air is not being pushed "it is being drawn into the engine bay", which is (pre tunnel mod)
So your agreeing with what Paul said, but not what i said, but yet we said the same thing??
Which one is it Justin? you can't say its being drawn in and then when Paul says the opposite make out he is agreeing with you, lol, he only agreed with you "pre-tunnel cooling" and nobody was ever talking about that, this is a thread about somebody who has just completed the tunnel cooling mod, and we are talking about the effects of the tunnel cooling mod.
Paul agrees with me that air is being pushed into the engine bay (post tunnel mod) thats exactly what i stated before you corrected me??
You corrected me saying air is not being pushed "it is being drawn into the engine bay", which is (pre tunnel mod)
So your agreeing with what Paul said, but not what i said, but yet we said the same thing??
Which one is it Justin? you can't say its being drawn in and then when Paul says the opposite make out he is agreeing with you, lol, he only agreed with you "pre-tunnel cooling" and nobody was ever talking about that, this is a thread about somebody who has just completed the tunnel cooling mod, and we are talking about the effects of the tunnel cooling mod.
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