A view on the new Tesla Model Y
Discussion
Morning fellow Petrolheads... Yes I know, it's about a Tesla and yes, there will be many on here that will loath them, (for a variety of reasons). But as a Petrolhead myself I actually quite like electric cars as they can be really good. Last week I collected our 3rd Tesla.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mean good as in a sports cars, (well not yet). But as a "do the boring stuff" car I think they are unmatched in terms of cost and utility. I quite like that there are so many, they become kind of invisible during the commute or shopping run. All that aside, I wanted to debate some of the things that I find incredibly annoying about Tesla and that the rush for convenience could be a very bad thing.
So first, the good stuff. On my third go around, I feel that the charging network is still, (in my option) the best available in the UK. And their cost in most cases means that as a lease car they make a lot of sense.
The included self drive cruise control is generally very good. I'll chat about full self drive separately below, but the free one is acceptable, (and one of the best) if you want simple assistance when on the motorway and on long journeys.
The Model Y Juniper is a significant upgrade in terms of refinement and quality. The Premium LR we now have v the Std Short Range I just gave back are very different cars. But that has come with an increase in the cost to lease it. I still think I the cost is worth it for the extra 100 miles of real world range and the better ride and finish of the car. (£163 per month with £8k deposit v £440 per month and a £5k deposit).
But there as some small issues that just drive me nuts and I wonder if this is just me, or if anyone else is equally baffled by them...
I really admire the processes Tesla employ to sell and deliver cars. Dropping off our old Tesla and collecting the new one was incredibly simple. One person met me, walked me to my new car, left me to look over it while they booked in my old car and then came back and linked my app to the car via their phone. It was insanely simple and all in all took about 10 mins. But that same simplicity is also applied to buying the car, (via a website) and minimum contact with a person. I know it's efficient, but my goodness it's soulless. I worry that lots of purchasing experiences will soon be like this.
- AI customer service. Tesla, like a lot to companies, use AI when you phone them. I assume it's powered by Grok, but the issue is it isnt quite good enough to understand what it is you need help with. For example, on Friday I called to ask why I could not add a second driver in the app. Before you can speak to a person the system asks you for a OTP. This is sent via the app. I received the OTP, but the AI could not understand the numbers and so after trying for about 10 mins differing ways to say the numbers, type them into the phone etc, I gave up. AI can be amazing, but when it goes wrong, it really just doesn't work.
- Changes to software for a lease car. I have had 2 lease cars now. And on the whole I think this is without doubt the best way to use a Tesla. Cost wise, new cars are expensive and being able to mitigate that by renting at an agreed cost over a set time, is perfect for me. But a new feature (!) is that you can only add one phone as a key to the car. Yep you read that correctly. You also get two key cards, so technically you can add another driver, but in order to sync phones, seat settings, etc you need a Tesla linked profile. My wife has one as we have been using the same system for about 4 years. However, for some unfathomable reason Tesla now restrict the ability to add another driver via the app. It's a simple thing, but is a massive pain. Tesla will tell you to contact your lease company but do not understand that UK cars are leased via a finance company. The so what is, you need to speak to a specific department that doesn't have a direct contact number but once you mange to transfer to them they will add another person to the car via a web portal.... My car hasn't even reached their system yet so it will be at least a week before my wife can register her account. Not the end of the world, but how much extra admin has this put on me instead of just letting me add her via the app in seconds? Really, really odd.
- Full Self Drive (supervised). One of the stand out features could be, a self driving car. You get free auto pilot (beta) with the car for free. If you then pay £99 per month then you get full self drive (supervised). Sadly it is not a better version of the software. It is exactly the same just that it will change lanes on the motorway and you can summon it out of parking spaces. That's it. DO NOT pay the £99, it is an utter disappointment. In the USA and some places in Europe they are reporting that the actual full self drive is amazing. Well, it must be some a significant upgrade, because mine got confused on small roads, couldn't move past parked cars, tried to crash on roads without a centre line, didn't understand most junctions and does not change the speed when the speed limit changes. Just simple stuff confuses it. It could be a genuine game changer, but wont likely come to the UK for 2 to 3 years. Sure, Tesla will blame the UK legislation for the hold up, but I don't buy that. While you can not have full self drive because of legislation, the version of software we have is just pants.
Sorry for the rant, but I feel that the way Tesla does things is a glimpse into the future. But I'm not convinced this guaranteed to be a very good thing...
Don't get me wrong, I don't mean good as in a sports cars, (well not yet). But as a "do the boring stuff" car I think they are unmatched in terms of cost and utility. I quite like that there are so many, they become kind of invisible during the commute or shopping run. All that aside, I wanted to debate some of the things that I find incredibly annoying about Tesla and that the rush for convenience could be a very bad thing.
So first, the good stuff. On my third go around, I feel that the charging network is still, (in my option) the best available in the UK. And their cost in most cases means that as a lease car they make a lot of sense.
The included self drive cruise control is generally very good. I'll chat about full self drive separately below, but the free one is acceptable, (and one of the best) if you want simple assistance when on the motorway and on long journeys.
The Model Y Juniper is a significant upgrade in terms of refinement and quality. The Premium LR we now have v the Std Short Range I just gave back are very different cars. But that has come with an increase in the cost to lease it. I still think I the cost is worth it for the extra 100 miles of real world range and the better ride and finish of the car. (£163 per month with £8k deposit v £440 per month and a £5k deposit).
But there as some small issues that just drive me nuts and I wonder if this is just me, or if anyone else is equally baffled by them...
I really admire the processes Tesla employ to sell and deliver cars. Dropping off our old Tesla and collecting the new one was incredibly simple. One person met me, walked me to my new car, left me to look over it while they booked in my old car and then came back and linked my app to the car via their phone. It was insanely simple and all in all took about 10 mins. But that same simplicity is also applied to buying the car, (via a website) and minimum contact with a person. I know it's efficient, but my goodness it's soulless. I worry that lots of purchasing experiences will soon be like this.
- AI customer service. Tesla, like a lot to companies, use AI when you phone them. I assume it's powered by Grok, but the issue is it isnt quite good enough to understand what it is you need help with. For example, on Friday I called to ask why I could not add a second driver in the app. Before you can speak to a person the system asks you for a OTP. This is sent via the app. I received the OTP, but the AI could not understand the numbers and so after trying for about 10 mins differing ways to say the numbers, type them into the phone etc, I gave up. AI can be amazing, but when it goes wrong, it really just doesn't work.
- Changes to software for a lease car. I have had 2 lease cars now. And on the whole I think this is without doubt the best way to use a Tesla. Cost wise, new cars are expensive and being able to mitigate that by renting at an agreed cost over a set time, is perfect for me. But a new feature (!) is that you can only add one phone as a key to the car. Yep you read that correctly. You also get two key cards, so technically you can add another driver, but in order to sync phones, seat settings, etc you need a Tesla linked profile. My wife has one as we have been using the same system for about 4 years. However, for some unfathomable reason Tesla now restrict the ability to add another driver via the app. It's a simple thing, but is a massive pain. Tesla will tell you to contact your lease company but do not understand that UK cars are leased via a finance company. The so what is, you need to speak to a specific department that doesn't have a direct contact number but once you mange to transfer to them they will add another person to the car via a web portal.... My car hasn't even reached their system yet so it will be at least a week before my wife can register her account. Not the end of the world, but how much extra admin has this put on me instead of just letting me add her via the app in seconds? Really, really odd.
- Full Self Drive (supervised). One of the stand out features could be, a self driving car. You get free auto pilot (beta) with the car for free. If you then pay £99 per month then you get full self drive (supervised). Sadly it is not a better version of the software. It is exactly the same just that it will change lanes on the motorway and you can summon it out of parking spaces. That's it. DO NOT pay the £99, it is an utter disappointment. In the USA and some places in Europe they are reporting that the actual full self drive is amazing. Well, it must be some a significant upgrade, because mine got confused on small roads, couldn't move past parked cars, tried to crash on roads without a centre line, didn't understand most junctions and does not change the speed when the speed limit changes. Just simple stuff confuses it. It could be a genuine game changer, but wont likely come to the UK for 2 to 3 years. Sure, Tesla will blame the UK legislation for the hold up, but I don't buy that. While you can not have full self drive because of legislation, the version of software we have is just pants.
Sorry for the rant, but I feel that the way Tesla does things is a glimpse into the future. But I'm not convinced this guaranteed to be a very good thing...
Edited by findtomdotcom on Monday 7th September 11:36
The self driving sounds to be no further on than it was in 2019 when I took delivery of my model S, and worse than in the demonstrator I tried before I ordered.
And mikes off what they promised me was just around the corner.
It’s frustrating. I’d love a car that does what they keep promising.
And mikes off what they promised me was just around the corner.
It’s frustrating. I’d love a car that does what they keep promising.
A great car....but is has flaws, specifically the first point you mentioned
"The included self drive cruise control is generally very good"
The standard radar cruise is the deal breaker for me - if cancels and deactivates every single time you change lanes.
Just frustrating and unnecessary !
"The included self drive cruise control is generally very good"
The standard radar cruise is the deal breaker for me - if cancels and deactivates every single time you change lanes.
Just frustrating and unnecessary !
As a retired ex- sales person I appreciate being on the receiving end of someone who knows their wares and knows how to present and understands how to ask what questions and can listen. I can respect their professionalism. However, it happens very rarely and in general it's a very disappointing process.
Direct sales from the manufacturer may be soulless but they make it easy to borrow cars and it's a time efficient process with no local agenda.
As an example I was interested in buying an F150 Lightning `pro' - the sub $40k one. However, when it came out there were none to test. All the dealers had purchased high spec variants and loaded the price up by 2-3x. I was not interested in a 90k pickup. Fast forward a couple of years and it appears that Ford has done a poor job (at least here), in supporting the vehicle. Now there is spare inventory and they can't shift them and dealers are paying the price for their greed.
So, no sitting down with someone who wants to sign you up for finance, no `Do you want that undersealed', `How about a maintenance plan?', `Oh we only have that in burgundy bambi skin', I am delighted with the direct sales method.
AI customer service is generally poor. Face-to-face eye contact and invoking a sense of personal accountability gets a better response. If I need something from service I go in and talk to someone.
I am unfamiliar with the software issue and it appears non-std. I guess it might be something arranged with the lease company..?
Likewise I am not interested in self driving and have consequently not spent any time researching this. I believe FSD is not approved in the UK and so not offered. I believe what you have is a driver assist package (?). It is approved in parts of EU I think (easy to look up).
I think the glimpse into the future is there but IMO offered by:
-A software defined vehicle - the car is `fully loaded' and it's the only version they build. The only differences being paint and interior colour. All other bits are turned on or off in the software at the time of purchase. The glimpse being that it's cheaper to build one model in high volume than it is to manage multiple models, different part numbers and all the downstream service for those parts.
-Far fewer but more complex parts due in part to the megacasting process - again minimising downstream costs of inventory and management.
-Fewer interior tactile controls and the controls needed during driving are on the wheel and more is done via giving them multiple functions. Other presets and general controls via touchscreen. Again far easier for manufacturing and service to software switch functions of the steering wheel buttons than it is to provide multiple separate knobs and buttons. ie. no glove box knob - controlled via screen
-Over the air updates is a real thing and our Model Y has changed significantly (for the better), since we bought it.
-Direct sales process gives manufacturer direct global control of pricing and inventory with no ownership problems if they want to move inventory around. Makes it easy for them to offer global or national incentives in order to shift inventory as needed.
-A move away from a multi facetted business and aligns more closely with the goals of a manufacturing company.
Direct end-to-end control gives manufacturer direct access to all QA metrics and enables statistical analysis on parts and design reliability
EVs require less service and are much less attractive to dealers who are motivated to push other ICE products which generate higher after sales income. Not good for a company like Tesla who only build EVs, but also not good for any manufacturer who is interested in knowing what customers want (as opposed to what dealers want).
-In the near future Teslas will come with Starlink in the roof for those who need real time global internet access...
-an increasing effort to generate after sales income via subscription based services.
Direct sales from the manufacturer may be soulless but they make it easy to borrow cars and it's a time efficient process with no local agenda.
As an example I was interested in buying an F150 Lightning `pro' - the sub $40k one. However, when it came out there were none to test. All the dealers had purchased high spec variants and loaded the price up by 2-3x. I was not interested in a 90k pickup. Fast forward a couple of years and it appears that Ford has done a poor job (at least here), in supporting the vehicle. Now there is spare inventory and they can't shift them and dealers are paying the price for their greed.
So, no sitting down with someone who wants to sign you up for finance, no `Do you want that undersealed', `How about a maintenance plan?', `Oh we only have that in burgundy bambi skin', I am delighted with the direct sales method.
AI customer service is generally poor. Face-to-face eye contact and invoking a sense of personal accountability gets a better response. If I need something from service I go in and talk to someone.
I am unfamiliar with the software issue and it appears non-std. I guess it might be something arranged with the lease company..?
Likewise I am not interested in self driving and have consequently not spent any time researching this. I believe FSD is not approved in the UK and so not offered. I believe what you have is a driver assist package (?). It is approved in parts of EU I think (easy to look up).
I think the glimpse into the future is there but IMO offered by:
-A software defined vehicle - the car is `fully loaded' and it's the only version they build. The only differences being paint and interior colour. All other bits are turned on or off in the software at the time of purchase. The glimpse being that it's cheaper to build one model in high volume than it is to manage multiple models, different part numbers and all the downstream service for those parts.
-Far fewer but more complex parts due in part to the megacasting process - again minimising downstream costs of inventory and management.
-Fewer interior tactile controls and the controls needed during driving are on the wheel and more is done via giving them multiple functions. Other presets and general controls via touchscreen. Again far easier for manufacturing and service to software switch functions of the steering wheel buttons than it is to provide multiple separate knobs and buttons. ie. no glove box knob - controlled via screen
-Over the air updates is a real thing and our Model Y has changed significantly (for the better), since we bought it.
-Direct sales process gives manufacturer direct global control of pricing and inventory with no ownership problems if they want to move inventory around. Makes it easy for them to offer global or national incentives in order to shift inventory as needed.
-A move away from a multi facetted business and aligns more closely with the goals of a manufacturing company.
Direct end-to-end control gives manufacturer direct access to all QA metrics and enables statistical analysis on parts and design reliability
EVs require less service and are much less attractive to dealers who are motivated to push other ICE products which generate higher after sales income. Not good for a company like Tesla who only build EVs, but also not good for any manufacturer who is interested in knowing what customers want (as opposed to what dealers want).
-In the near future Teslas will come with Starlink in the roof for those who need real time global internet access...
-an increasing effort to generate after sales income via subscription based services.
SDK said:
The standard radar cruise is the deal breaker for me - if cancels and deactivates every single time you change lanes.
Just frustrating and unnecessary !
It … doesn’t?Just frustrating and unnecessary !
Down once for cruise.
Down twice for auto drive (i.e. it steers too)
If you’re on the second, then a driver steering input turns autodrive off.
But if you’re on cruise, it’s just cruise. Like any other car.
Unless the SW has changed since I last drove one
My view as a qualified mechanic, car collector and petrol head?
I cannot wait to get a new Model 3 to replace my wife's 23' plate Mercedes E300d estate.
The Mercedes has had the easiest life in the world since I purchased it (for loads of money) 3 years ago.
It now has a dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree, because 60,000 easy smooth miles with regular oil changes over 3 years is too much to ask.
If Mercedes cannot build a car that lasts what hope is there?
I find many modern diesel and hybrid petrol cars over complicated time bombs packed full of filters and emissions equipment that will fail.
We have a 23 plate Ford Ranger on the farm which has been a nightmare it is hybrid and wet belt as well!
I cant wait to get rid of that too.
Bring back the old fashioned simple cars of 15 years ago. - They never will though.
Its all electric for the daily grind. 911s and E types for the weekend.
I have not paid a service or repair bill on a Tesla in 250,000 miles of driving since 2014- just saying.
I cannot wait to get a new Model 3 to replace my wife's 23' plate Mercedes E300d estate.
The Mercedes has had the easiest life in the world since I purchased it (for loads of money) 3 years ago.
It now has a dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree, because 60,000 easy smooth miles with regular oil changes over 3 years is too much to ask.
If Mercedes cannot build a car that lasts what hope is there?
I find many modern diesel and hybrid petrol cars over complicated time bombs packed full of filters and emissions equipment that will fail.
We have a 23 plate Ford Ranger on the farm which has been a nightmare it is hybrid and wet belt as well!
I cant wait to get rid of that too.
Bring back the old fashioned simple cars of 15 years ago. - They never will though.
Its all electric for the daily grind. 911s and E types for the weekend.
I have not paid a service or repair bill on a Tesla in 250,000 miles of driving since 2014- just saying.
SDK said:
A great car....but is has flaws, specifically the first point you mentioned
"The included self drive cruise control is generally very good"
The standard radar cruise is the deal breaker for me - if cancels and deactivates every single time you change lanes.
Just frustrating and unnecessary !
No it doesn’t, that’s only if you use the autosteer option, if you turn that off it doesn’t deactivate the active cruise when you change lanes."The included self drive cruise control is generally very good"
The standard radar cruise is the deal breaker for me - if cancels and deactivates every single time you change lanes.
Just frustrating and unnecessary !
The active cruise is garbage in my opinion, on my M3 it frequently slams the brakes on, slows down as you are changing lanes 10 car lengths behind the car you are trying to pass, and takes an age to get back up to speed, plus it has built in curve assist that slows down for wide open sweeping bends that could be taken 50mph faster, my previous Seat Ateca’s system was far better overall.
Jazoli said:
No it doesn t, that s only if you use the autosteer option, if you turn that off it doesn t deactivate the active cruise when you change lanes.
The active cruise is garbage in my opinion, on my M3 it frequently slams the brakes on, slows down as you are changing lanes 10 car lengths behind the car you are trying to pass, and takes an age to get back up to speed, plus it has built in curve assist that slows down for wide open sweeping bends that could be taken 50mph faster, my previous Seat Ateca s system was far better overall.
Wifes MG does the same. It's infuriating, particularly slowing down on motorway bends.The active cruise is garbage in my opinion, on my M3 it frequently slams the brakes on, slows down as you are changing lanes 10 car lengths behind the car you are trying to pass, and takes an age to get back up to speed, plus it has built in curve assist that slows down for wide open sweeping bends that could be taken 50mph faster, my previous Seat Ateca s system was far better overall.
I'm pretty certain owing a Tesla for the last decade is part of the reasons I've lost any real interest in cars. The fact I prefer to spend time 'Driving' on the Xbox versus real life says it all really. Luckily mine is going soon so hopefully I'll regain interest in cars at some point.
Jazoli said:
No it doesn t, that s only if you use the autosteer option, if you turn that off it doesn t deactivate the active cruise when you change lanes.
The active cruise is garbage in my opinion, on my M3 it frequently slams the brakes on, slows down as you are changing lanes 10 car lengths behind the car you are trying to pass, and takes an age to get back up to speed, plus it has built in curve assist that slows down for wide open sweeping bends that could be taken 50mph faster, my previous Seat Ateca s system was far better overall.
It does in the Juniper and seems unique to this car - the 3 still drops down to cruise first rather than totally off. Why on the Y this is different I don't know but it is infuriating and after 12,000 miles in my Juniper is the difference between a 8/10 and 9/10 daily driver. The active cruise is garbage in my opinion, on my M3 it frequently slams the brakes on, slows down as you are changing lanes 10 car lengths behind the car you are trying to pass, and takes an age to get back up to speed, plus it has built in curve assist that slows down for wide open sweeping bends that could be taken 50mph faster, my previous Seat Ateca s system was far better overall.
LR AWD Y is absolutely faultless and surprisingly efficient versus the LR AWD M3 it replaced given it is a larger, heavier car. I only wish that the ride were a smidge firmer which would make it scrape less over bumps; somehow it feels it has less ground clearance than the M3, so the SUV looks are deceiving.
Mr E said:
SDK said:
The standard radar cruise is the deal breaker for me - if cancels and deactivates every single time you change lanes.
Just frustrating and unnecessary !
It doesn t?Just frustrating and unnecessary !
Down once for cruise.
Down twice for auto drive (i.e. it steers too)
If you re on the second, then a driver steering input turns autodrive off.
But if you re on cruise, it s just cruise. Like any other car.
Unless the SW has changed since I last drove one
Jazoli said:
No it doesn t, that s only if you use the autosteer option, if you turn that off it doesn t deactivate the active cruise when you change lanes.
The active cruise is garbage in my opinion, on my M3 it frequently slams the brakes on, slows down as you are changing lanes 10 car lengths behind the car you are trying to pass, and takes an age to get back up to speed, plus it has built in curve assist that slows down for wide open sweeping bends that could be taken 50mph faster, my previous Seat Ateca s system was far better overall.
That's my point - the 'Self drive' radar cruise and auto steer self cancels every time you change lanes The active cruise is garbage in my opinion, on my M3 it frequently slams the brakes on, slows down as you are changing lanes 10 car lengths behind the car you are trying to pass, and takes an age to get back up to speed, plus it has built in curve assist that slows down for wide open sweeping bends that could be taken 50mph faster, my previous Seat Ateca s system was far better overall.
Paying £99 a month means it doesnt do this - stupid !
Gassing Station | Tesla | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff