Discussion
Comadis said:
a robin with ford sierra paperwork to avoid sva.
You keep getting on this correctly/incorrectly registered hobby horse but you need to be careful the last part of the sentence above could be libellous, you cannot prove what is shown on the V5c without seeing it. When I had my Robin Hood it was on the V5 as MAKE Ford, MODEL Robin Hood, it kept the original Cortina reg number and was issued with a VIN by the DVLA.
So without physically checking the logbook you cannot be certain that it is incorrectly registered.
I hate to say it but yes you can, anyone can check it out although it will cost £3 - text "CTC" then the car reg to 83600 and £3 later you've got the make and model as registered on V5 plus all the other usual HPi check stuff. Did this myself on a Dino 246 replica I was interested in - until it came back as a 1980 Lancia Beta!
He has now amended the ad with the addition of "Item description changed due to some peoples doubt about this item being genuine" LOL
He has now amended the ad with the addition of "Item description changed due to some peoples doubt about this item being genuine" LOL
Or type the reg number in here and have a guesstimate at what the "Manufacturer" name might be:-
http://www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/appl...
http://www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/appl...
Comadis said:
@thescamper:
i would´nt have published my statement saying "ford" when i wouldn´t have known or checked it.
so believe me : it says Ford in the V5
Thats not the point. It can legally say Ford on the V5 (mine did / do) but does it say sierra cortina fiest capri or does it say Robin Hood / Westfield / F27 /sylva as the model. Does it have the original Sierra / Cortina etc VIN number or does it have a new one issued by the DVLA ?i would´nt have published my statement saying "ford" when i wouldn´t have known or checked it.
so believe me : it says Ford in the V5
I have just checked my Scamp V5s and one says MAKE Morris, Model SCAMP, VIN The one I made up and donor reg number. The other one says Make AUSTIN, Model Scamp, VIN issued by DVLA (new) with the donor Reg too.
So by your rules these cars (admittedly registered before the SVA /IVA rules came in) are incorrectly registered.
This area of what is states on the V5 is I agree very unclear but to say that every 7 which has Ford on the log book is incorrectly registered is very wrong and you may even cause someone to end up with a legitimate legal claim against you for damages.
Having built enjoyed and played in Kit Cars since building a Falcon in 1963 I have seen all manner of cobbled kit cars, genuine cars, correctly registered with the DVLA and not correctly registered with the DVLA. Robin Hoods masquerading as Caterham and Westfield seem to be the most common.
As others have said I have seen old BMC specials and others registered as Austin and Morris and MG etc with additional descriptions in the V5 stating Convertible Historic Special all sorts.
There were no hard and fast rules twenty years ago and individual offices of the DVLA did as they liked. Some of the descriptions are highly suspect but GENUINE in so far as the car was inspected and a description indicating the changes seen added to the V5.
In that sense only genuine.
NOT a good description of the actual history of the car.
Whilst a libel action is unlikely on a cost basis, drawing attention to the possible misdescription is safer than stating
'this is rubbish/wrong/misleading etc'
That's my advice. Tread softly but raise the question. Every time.
As others have said I have seen old BMC specials and others registered as Austin and Morris and MG etc with additional descriptions in the V5 stating Convertible Historic Special all sorts.
There were no hard and fast rules twenty years ago and individual offices of the DVLA did as they liked. Some of the descriptions are highly suspect but GENUINE in so far as the car was inspected and a description indicating the changes seen added to the V5.
In that sense only genuine.
NOT a good description of the actual history of the car.
Whilst a libel action is unlikely on a cost basis, drawing attention to the possible misdescription is safer than stating
'this is rubbish/wrong/misleading etc'
That's my advice. Tread softly but raise the question. Every time.
Steffan said:
Having built enjoyed and played in Kit Cars since building a Falcon in 1963 I have seen all manner of cobbled kit cars, genuine cars, correctly registered with the DVLA and not correctly registered with the DVLA. Robin Hoods masquerading as Caterham and Westfield seem to be the most common.
As others have said I have seen old BMC specials and others registered as Austin and Morris and MG etc with additional descriptions in the V5 stating Convertible Historic Special all sorts.
There were no hard and fast rules twenty years ago and individual offices of the DVLA did as they liked. Some of the descriptions are highly suspect but GENUINE in so far as the car was inspected and a description indicating the changes seen added to the V5.
In that sense only genuine.
NOT a good description of the actual history of the car.
Whilst a libel action is unlikely on a cost basis, drawing attention to the possible misdescription is safer than stating
'this is rubbish/wrong/misleading etc'
That's my advice. Tread softly but raise the question. Every time.
Back in the "old days" you took the body off an old Austin 7 or E93A Pop and built your own body on the chassis, or in the case of the E93A stuck on a Falcon body....Had one too, bought as an unfinished project and scrapped it two years later without finishing it.....As others have said I have seen old BMC specials and others registered as Austin and Morris and MG etc with additional descriptions in the V5 stating Convertible Historic Special all sorts.
There were no hard and fast rules twenty years ago and individual offices of the DVLA did as they liked. Some of the descriptions are highly suspect but GENUINE in so far as the car was inspected and a description indicating the changes seen added to the V5.
In that sense only genuine.
NOT a good description of the actual history of the car.
Whilst a libel action is unlikely on a cost basis, drawing attention to the possible misdescription is safer than stating
'this is rubbish/wrong/misleading etc'
That's my advice. Tread softly but raise the question. Every time.
Now this all brings me on to a crazy project I keep playing with in my head....thinking of a cheap to run fun car not necessarily fast but frugal, I keep wondering about all the Nissan Micras that get scrapped. Use ALL the mechanicals, dash, seats etc and fit them into a new chassis or "sort out" the existing structure and create a "Speedster" look, stripped out. Or maybe a Minisprint idea, or move the engine to the rear and create an Atom style run about. Surely using ALL the existing running gear makes the build easier and it could be called a Nissan Special like in days of yore. Must remember to take those tablets and go back to the cell.
Comadis said:
@thescamper:
robin hoods are in 99% properly registered. so if the dvla database says "ford" it seems likely fact that its not properly registered.
ok...besides the 1%.....
I am sure you are right the percentage of inspected cars subsequently registered with a misleading V5 is very small. robin hoods are in 99% properly registered. so if the dvla database says "ford" it seems likely fact that its not properly registered.
ok...besides the 1%.....
But they do exist I have seen such cases.
Question is how many Robin Hoods are incorrectly registered? 30%? 40%? 50%?
Its certainly a large number and every buyer should be aware of this serious difficulty. There is always someone on the make.
Be careful out there!
As said before don'tbad mouth the car catch the tw-ts who give kit cars of all types a bad name. I have run a correctly registered RH for 9years with a "cherished plate "and been told by "experts" that it is a caterham ,a lotus ,a morgan! among others, it's pre SVA IVA car but the paper work is correct ,I personaly like the term correctly registered in an ad and would not touch any thing else buyer beware is very imp
I think part of the problem with this discussion is what constitutes a correctly registered kit car?
My understanding has always been that the manufacturer should be the KIT manufacturer and the model, that of the car. (Obviously!)
IIRC there was an amnesty several years ago to allow people with incorrectly registered cars to correct their V5 - AIUI to the format I suggest above.
So, there really shouldn't be any Robin Hoods out there that are registered as Ford Sierras, nor indeed Ford Robin Hoods, but there are. It may well be that some of the "Ford Robin Hood" cars are known to the DVLA and are considered correct - it may even be that they were registered that way at the suggestion of the DVLA. And the point is, that if I were buying a second hand kit car, I'd be very suspicious of any car that wasn't registered as:
Manufacturer: ROBIN HOOD
Model: ZERO
(Or whatever.)
I might miss out on a good car, but I'd probably walk away.
My understanding has always been that the manufacturer should be the KIT manufacturer and the model, that of the car. (Obviously!)
IIRC there was an amnesty several years ago to allow people with incorrectly registered cars to correct their V5 - AIUI to the format I suggest above.
So, there really shouldn't be any Robin Hoods out there that are registered as Ford Sierras, nor indeed Ford Robin Hoods, but there are. It may well be that some of the "Ford Robin Hood" cars are known to the DVLA and are considered correct - it may even be that they were registered that way at the suggestion of the DVLA. And the point is, that if I were buying a second hand kit car, I'd be very suspicious of any car that wasn't registered as:
Manufacturer: ROBIN HOOD
Model: ZERO
(Or whatever.)
I might miss out on a good car, but I'd probably walk away.
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