Fury or Phoenix
Discussion
HI there, im new to hill climbing and am seriously intersted in either building a pheonix or fury.
i have read a few other blogs and there are many good points. a couple of questions though!
1. ive seen on the fisher website you can purchase the fury bodystyle there, but where can you get hold of a phoenix bodyshell? any ideas how expensive they are compared to the fury?
2. does anyone know how much wider the fury is over the phoenix? is the width of both cars the same except the phoenix tapers in more around the cockpit?
3. anyone know of any good kit car shows i can visit to maybe get some more of an understanding of both of these cars?
many thanks
aj
Hi, I own an R1 Phoenix currently and used to have a Fury Fireblade.
You can purchase a Fury kit through FurySportsCars and a Phoenix kit through RAW.
The Phoenix is slightly narrower than a Fury, and shares it's chassis with a RAW Striker. No problem fitting in one unless you are quite "wide". The Phoenix only currently comes in one body style, aeroscreen and no doors. The Fury comes in several styles, with or without doors, Windscreen and hood. In pared back aeroscreen form both cars are very similar.
I think you need to decide if you need a Windscreen or not first, if you do then Fury is your only option.
Then you say you fancy doing a bit of sprinting, if you know what class you fancy entering that may have an influence on your choice. Bike engined of car engined? Road legal or full on sprint Sports Libre?? Trackday? Noise issues?
You can purchase a Fury kit through FurySportsCars and a Phoenix kit through RAW.
The Phoenix is slightly narrower than a Fury, and shares it's chassis with a RAW Striker. No problem fitting in one unless you are quite "wide". The Phoenix only currently comes in one body style, aeroscreen and no doors. The Fury comes in several styles, with or without doors, Windscreen and hood. In pared back aeroscreen form both cars are very similar.
I think you need to decide if you need a Windscreen or not first, if you do then Fury is your only option.
Then you say you fancy doing a bit of sprinting, if you know what class you fancy entering that may have an influence on your choice. Bike engined of car engined? Road legal or full on sprint Sports Libre?? Trackday? Noise issues?
Other points worth considering;
- All other things being equal, the Pheonix chassis is slightly lighter than the Fury (the Fury uses more of a steel-panelled perimeter frame 'tub' than the Phoenix's, since it was designed to accomodate the installation of doors).
- Check the regulations for the hillclimbs/sprints you're intending to enter. Some clubs have become more flexible about interpretation, these days, but in some the use of aeroscreens rather than a full windscreen might place you into the 'Sports Libre' class, where you'll get soundly spanked by the Mallocks, OMS's and other assorted 'genuine' sports racers.
- For whatever reason, the full-bodied Phoenix/Fury hasn't made as much of a mark on hillclimbing as it has in circuit racing. A lot of people prefer the traditional 'open wheel' 'Seven'-type cars. Usual reasons are given as the full bodywork being heavier and hillclimb speeds not being high enough for the aerodynamic benefits to show through, and 'open wheel' cars being easier to place accurately on the very tight hillclimb courses because you can see exactly where your front wheels are.
thanks for the quick response!
im really interested in hill climbing and maybe some sprinting. weight is key so would like the car to be as light and minimal as possible. so the spyder version and small wind deflector is a must!
thinking of using a bike engine and a man at fisher has given me a rough quote of around £7500 for all parts to build a fury spyder with a bike engine. is this realistic in your opinion?
the reason im torn between the phoenix and the fury is purely design. i like the covered headlamps and the rear of the phoenix. i know you can get covered lamps on the fury le mans bonnet but think i prefer the fenders on the normal spyder! decisions!!
i think i really need to have a visit to a good kit car show, do you know any coming up?
any advice on cost of building one etc would be great, just started to look into it properly now you see!
many thanks
alex
£7500 should be do-able if you're carefull and avoid getting distracted by shiney things... but if you realy want lieght weight then you'll probably get distracted.
As Sam says the standard Fury chassis is heavier, but most of the ones I've seen recently are built with the lightweight chassis. That avoids steel panels for all but the pedal box so is probably similar in weight to the Phoenix one.
Just to add to the confusion, Steve at Fishers is working on new body moulds and roumour has it that they've a modified shape bonnet.
Show wise there's just Stafford (if it's still on?) 17/18 Sept and Exeter 22/23 Oct left this year
As Sam says the standard Fury chassis is heavier, but most of the ones I've seen recently are built with the lightweight chassis. That avoids steel panels for all but the pedal box so is probably similar in weight to the Phoenix one.
Just to add to the confusion, Steve at Fishers is working on new body moulds and roumour has it that they've a modified shape bonnet.
Show wise there's just Stafford (if it's still on?) 17/18 Sept and Exeter 22/23 Oct left this year
Edited by AdiT on Monday 4th July 13:49
From memory my old Fury chassis had no steel panelling apart from the pedal box area (essential or it will flex under braking )
BUT from experience of using these things hard on roads DO NOT specify a "raceweight" or extra lightweight chassis if you are taking these cars anywhere near a road. It will break. If I was building another I would go for a lightweight chassis by all means, meaning aluminium not steel bulkheads, but I would gusset EVERY angle practical around the rear suspension and diff carrier. My own Phoenix has been beefed up in this area after it broke when built 8 years ago. Been fine ever since, last week we ( including ADi above ) were getting airborne up the Col du Turini at over 70 mph.... :-). One car with us did snap it's chassis but it wasn't our beefed up ones....
You have to watch the weight when building BEC's but 450kgs is a good ttarget for a car with a beefy enough chassis not to break.
Another problem my car suffered in the near 40 degree heat near Monte Carlo last week was it's "raceweight" bonnet literally melted in the sun. It deformed, bent, warped, cracked, split, you name it! I will be replacing it with a"lightweight" version soon.
In summary, when you tick the options boxes I suggest you don't tick anything saying "race" for a car used on the road.
BUT from experience of using these things hard on roads DO NOT specify a "raceweight" or extra lightweight chassis if you are taking these cars anywhere near a road. It will break. If I was building another I would go for a lightweight chassis by all means, meaning aluminium not steel bulkheads, but I would gusset EVERY angle practical around the rear suspension and diff carrier. My own Phoenix has been beefed up in this area after it broke when built 8 years ago. Been fine ever since, last week we ( including ADi above ) were getting airborne up the Col du Turini at over 70 mph.... :-). One car with us did snap it's chassis but it wasn't our beefed up ones....
You have to watch the weight when building BEC's but 450kgs is a good ttarget for a car with a beefy enough chassis not to break.
Another problem my car suffered in the near 40 degree heat near Monte Carlo last week was it's "raceweight" bonnet literally melted in the sun. It deformed, bent, warped, cracked, split, you name it! I will be replacing it with a"lightweight" version soon.
In summary, when you tick the options boxes I suggest you don't tick anything saying "race" for a car used on the road.
thanks again both of you, really good advice.
i have checked out the RAW website but they dont seem to give a price for the body work. just that it might be around £12,000 / £13,000 for a kit. is this likely, might be a problem going for the phoenix if im trying to get one for around £7,000 - £8,000!
might have to make a visit to fisher's in kent this weekend!
thanks
alex
alex watkin said:
... so the spyder version and small wind deflector is a must!
I would just reiterate that you should check the detail of the regulations and how they are interpreted by the clubs/venues/championships you wish to compete in.An aeroscreened Fury/Phoenix can be as light and minimalist as you like, and it still won't be competitive against some of the devices you'll be up against if they make you run in Sports Libre.
You might want to check if the Fury is still in production.
A colleague of mine has been unable, despite many assurances from Fischer, BGH Geartech and whoever is making it now, to source a hood. So he has no weather gear. This seems a rather basic piece of equipment for a convertable. It seems as if the owners of the Fury project have lost interest in it.
A colleague of mine has been unable, despite many assurances from Fischer, BGH Geartech and whoever is making it now, to source a hood. So he has no weather gear. This seems a rather basic piece of equipment for a convertable. It seems as if the owners of the Fury project have lost interest in it.
Cymtrix, the hoods on the Fury were never a strong seller and have nothing at all to do with what is made in-house. The Fury is very much alive under new ownership of Steve Hughes who has been the factory builder for many years under several ownerships. Tell your mate to try Softbitsforsevens as they make a SUPERB roof for the Fury as per fitted to Jim Gibletts R1 Fury. Adi on here also has a similar one I believe. I can't really explain how it works but it is a far better solution than the old factory one.
As for building a bike engined Fury or Phoenix and getting it IVA'd for £8k I'd stick my neck out and say no way. My Fury cost me £10k back in 2002, I reckon £12k is a realistic budget for a nice "finished" car. But as already stated, a good idea is buy one for £6- £8k, strip it in a weekend and put it back together properly how you want it.
As for building a bike engined Fury or Phoenix and getting it IVA'd for £8k I'd stick my neck out and say no way. My Fury cost me £10k back in 2002, I reckon £12k is a realistic budget for a nice "finished" car. But as already stated, a good idea is buy one for £6- £8k, strip it in a weekend and put it back together properly how you want it.
When BGH took over the project from The Kit Car Workshop they found several critical bits of the jigsaw missing. These included paterns for the hood (and jigs for lots of other parts of the car). I know Chris was trying to come up with a better design for the hood rather than just get a replacement set of paterns made from an old hood (there are several slightly different ones already). However a combination of sorting more crtical components and distractions from the gearbox side of the business delayed that.
BGH have since decided to concentrate on thier core business and sold the project on in the last couple of monthe to Steve Hughes (now Fury Sports Cars). Steve has a long history with the Fury going back to working with Mark Fisher and then BGH. The Fury is in good hands, with Steve able to concentrate on just the Fury and address the supply issues. He's currently sorting bodywork issues and I'm sure in time will get the hood sorted.
BGH have since decided to concentrate on thier core business and sold the project on in the last couple of monthe to Steve Hughes (now Fury Sports Cars). Steve has a long history with the Fury going back to working with Mark Fisher and then BGH. The Fury is in good hands, with Steve able to concentrate on just the Fury and address the supply issues. He's currently sorting bodywork issues and I'm sure in time will get the hood sorted.
Hi,
Regarding the chassis cracking problems don't be put off. Steve (Furysportscars) has had feed back of this problem and has changed the tube wall thickness on the chassis.
To be honest all of your questions can be answered by Steve regarding delivery and whats best (assuming you go the Fury route). The last thing I heard was that the new bonnets were being painted.
I think that the guys are correct with the hood, as last time I was at Fury sports cars Steve said that he may want to borrow my hoops that support the roof to make a jig. But he does still do the hard top (it will only fit over the standard height roll bar though).
Regarding what class you run it, I believe that there were slight amendments to the blue book that work to your advantage, it may keep you out of Sports Libre.(But I could be wrong)
Good luck with it all.
Regarding the chassis cracking problems don't be put off. Steve (Furysportscars) has had feed back of this problem and has changed the tube wall thickness on the chassis.
To be honest all of your questions can be answered by Steve regarding delivery and whats best (assuming you go the Fury route). The last thing I heard was that the new bonnets were being painted.
I think that the guys are correct with the hood, as last time I was at Fury sports cars Steve said that he may want to borrow my hoops that support the roof to make a jig. But he does still do the hard top (it will only fit over the standard height roll bar though).
Regarding what class you run it, I believe that there were slight amendments to the blue book that work to your advantage, it may keep you out of Sports Libre.(But I could be wrong)
Good luck with it all.
I'd agree with most that is posted on here. If you are really set on sprinting then minimalist is key. If I remember correctly though it is the fact that you dont have a full screen is one of the main factors putting you into Sports Libre rather than being bike engined but regs may have changed since I last looked.
If you want to get more use out of your car then some road comforts are a must (particularly strength of the chassis). As mentioned above, a bunch of us have just returned from touring the French, Swiss and Italian Alps and I am definately glad I did it in an enclosed bodied car. I have been out in the rain in open wheeled car without doors and having a gallon of rain water splashed into your lap off the front wheels is not pleasant. Doors will help but they are ugly and cannot easily be stashed when not in use.
£7.5k will get you something second hand but is highly optimistic for a new build BEC and will be pretty basic.
- Jim
If you want to get more use out of your car then some road comforts are a must (particularly strength of the chassis). As mentioned above, a bunch of us have just returned from touring the French, Swiss and Italian Alps and I am definately glad I did it in an enclosed bodied car. I have been out in the rain in open wheeled car without doors and having a gallon of rain water splashed into your lap off the front wheels is not pleasant. Doors will help but they are ugly and cannot easily be stashed when not in use.
£7.5k will get you something second hand but is highly optimistic for a new build BEC and will be pretty basic.
- Jim
Hi
I run a fury in the ASWMC and at various south west events. Ive got a tiny aeroscreen, and have always run in B3 which is Road going specialist production.
Ive not seen any furys having to run in sports libre, only road going specialist production or modified specialist production (to run slicks etc)
cheers
Lee
I run a fury in the ASWMC and at various south west events. Ive got a tiny aeroscreen, and have always run in B3 which is Road going specialist production.
Ive not seen any furys having to run in sports libre, only road going specialist production or modified specialist production (to run slicks etc)
cheers
Lee
I'd be suprised if you can build a light-weight Fury with bike engine for much less than £10k. I priced the parts up for mine at £12,500 and it came in closer to £15k by the time it was on the road. I guess it depends how much you are prepared to compromise but, the only thing I didn't do was fit an LSD. I can send you the Microsoft Excel spreadsheet if you want.
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