Problems with build garage
Discussion
hi guys
Looking for some advice....
I am building a replica 356 speedster and got to the stage where it was completed except for a few bits and pieces. I wanted an expert workshop to complete the build and submit it for IVA.
the work included;
fitting interior seats (provided) and door trims
brake test / replacing a rear drum (provided)
checking electrics and replacing some connectors
fitting seat belts (provided)
doing ad hoc work like fitting tank vent and fuel cap tether, fitting dials, investigate a fix a couple if leaks from diff seals, fit IVA trim where needed, fit a couple of indicator lights in dash etc
Total initial estimate was 59 hours work - I thought this was a little excessive but better to be over than under. Total of £2100.
You can imagine my horror when it failed the test (the garage in question has lots of experience of IVA testing btw) and the latest total invoice is for 172 hours and £6100 (discounted from £8k)....
I stated clearly at outset not to go over £1800 and to advise progress along the way - this was one reason why I selected them to complete the build and not others who quoted a weeks work all in - this garage would keep me fully advised of progress. Unfortunately I haven't received this feedback and no warning of the first invoice that was for £2600 (on top of up front payment of £1000) to get it IVA'd and subsequent invoice for £2500 to fix IVA problems.
Where do I stand with this and how should I approach it? I had no intention of this kind of spend and I'd have done the work myself if I was accurately quoted in the first place. Some jobs have been unnecessary, some have been to fix issues that they caused, some have been diverting around electrical problems than fixing the cause, others are accepting that that car would potentially fail IVA and see what it failed on before attempting to fix them!
Depending on how this gets resolved, depends on whether I spill the name of the company concerned.
Thanks
b
Looking for some advice....
I am building a replica 356 speedster and got to the stage where it was completed except for a few bits and pieces. I wanted an expert workshop to complete the build and submit it for IVA.
the work included;
fitting interior seats (provided) and door trims
brake test / replacing a rear drum (provided)
checking electrics and replacing some connectors
fitting seat belts (provided)
doing ad hoc work like fitting tank vent and fuel cap tether, fitting dials, investigate a fix a couple if leaks from diff seals, fit IVA trim where needed, fit a couple of indicator lights in dash etc
Total initial estimate was 59 hours work - I thought this was a little excessive but better to be over than under. Total of £2100.
You can imagine my horror when it failed the test (the garage in question has lots of experience of IVA testing btw) and the latest total invoice is for 172 hours and £6100 (discounted from £8k)....
I stated clearly at outset not to go over £1800 and to advise progress along the way - this was one reason why I selected them to complete the build and not others who quoted a weeks work all in - this garage would keep me fully advised of progress. Unfortunately I haven't received this feedback and no warning of the first invoice that was for £2600 (on top of up front payment of £1000) to get it IVA'd and subsequent invoice for £2500 to fix IVA problems.
Where do I stand with this and how should I approach it? I had no intention of this kind of spend and I'd have done the work myself if I was accurately quoted in the first place. Some jobs have been unnecessary, some have been to fix issues that they caused, some have been diverting around electrical problems than fixing the cause, others are accepting that that car would potentially fail IVA and see what it failed on before attempting to fix them!
Depending on how this gets resolved, depends on whether I spill the name of the company concerned.
Thanks
b
Edited by bonerp on Monday 8th August 10:46
bonerp said:
Total initial estimate was 59 hours work - I thought this was a little excessive but better to be over than under. Total of £2100.
I stated clearly at outset not to go over £1800 and to advise progress along the way
I had no intention of this kind of spend and I'd have done the work myself if I was accurately quoted in the first place.
What did you and they put in writing?I stated clearly at outset not to go over £1800 and to advise progress along the way
I had no intention of this kind of spend and I'd have done the work myself if I was accurately quoted in the first place.
Did you ask for a quote or an estimate?
First and foremost Flossy's post.
But from there on you have to bear in mind that (in my experience) part builds usually require an awful lot of back tracking to get the car in a position where it CAN be completed.
Usually the reason the original builder threw in the towel in the first place if the truth be known. With only a handful of jobs to do (In the list above) then why did you not complete the build?
Only recently I have taken on a part build myself. On the face of it the car looked like it needed little more than the interior trim fitting and some petrol in it.
In reality it needed the exhaust system removing the engine and gearbox pulling our the front wiring loom stripping out back to the cockpit and re routing, numberous clips fitting to previously inaccessible [parts of the chassis and then putting back together again.
A simple couple of clips that could take only 10-15 minutes in the transmission tunnel turned into over 2 days work. Thios sort off thing stacks up and it all tooo often typical when taking on a part built car.
when a limit to the budget is set prior to starting the job sometimes the amount of work involved means that all that can be done before the money runs out is the dismantling part.
You'd be amazed at how much additional work crops up even when you have given half a day of your time just trying to evaluate just what needs doing also in order to quote.
The job I mention above came to me with a list of 19 jobs to do. I found another 25 which included the engine and gearbox removal (So not all small jobs).
This car is now ready for test and I think I have done an additional 5-10 jobs on top of that, but I quoted for the 19 and then the additional 25 before I started the work, the extras after that are on my own bat.
I hope you get everything resloved, but please bear the above in mind.
Good luck.
But from there on you have to bear in mind that (in my experience) part builds usually require an awful lot of back tracking to get the car in a position where it CAN be completed.
Usually the reason the original builder threw in the towel in the first place if the truth be known. With only a handful of jobs to do (In the list above) then why did you not complete the build?
Only recently I have taken on a part build myself. On the face of it the car looked like it needed little more than the interior trim fitting and some petrol in it.
In reality it needed the exhaust system removing the engine and gearbox pulling our the front wiring loom stripping out back to the cockpit and re routing, numberous clips fitting to previously inaccessible [parts of the chassis and then putting back together again.
A simple couple of clips that could take only 10-15 minutes in the transmission tunnel turned into over 2 days work. Thios sort off thing stacks up and it all tooo often typical when taking on a part built car.
when a limit to the budget is set prior to starting the job sometimes the amount of work involved means that all that can be done before the money runs out is the dismantling part.
You'd be amazed at how much additional work crops up even when you have given half a day of your time just trying to evaluate just what needs doing also in order to quote.
The job I mention above came to me with a list of 19 jobs to do. I found another 25 which included the engine and gearbox removal (So not all small jobs).
This car is now ready for test and I think I have done an additional 5-10 jobs on top of that, but I quoted for the 19 and then the additional 25 before I started the work, the extras after that are on my own bat.
I hope you get everything resloved, but please bear the above in mind.
Good luck.
appreciate what you are saying - yes I did get a written quote and itemised.
Some things were, for example change electrical connectors as I didnt feel mine were 100%, also to tidy up the wiring. This again was agreed and estimated.
I appreciate an estimate is just that, however 59 hours to 172 hours is a big diffence.
Had a quick chat with Consumer Advice and they started to state provision of goods or services acts and all sorts. I don't really want to go dow this route (but its useful to know my rights).
Main thing is I myself thought it was an extra weeks work - so did another company, as did this one (if not a little over a week). I wasn't shying away from completing the build - just getting an expert to check I did it properly, or do jobs I just couldn't do by myself, or didn't feel competant at doing.
I suppose my concern is lack of information during build, now having gone 3 to 4 times over the original budget without being informed. Now having to redo stuff they didn't do as per my instructions.
if you have an extention to your home, you wouldn't expect to pay 3/4 times more than the original estimate and budget. I accept things do go over the agreed price and further discussion is sought - thats my problem, it wasnt and they continued without my approval. I now have a car that needs further work that they originally were to complete that now hasn't been, and things to change that they did wrong. Big lack of comms and big assumptions that at any price, they'd continue and the customer would have to pay regardless. Its not a way to run any business IMHO.
I'm at a loss as they have my car and until its paid I won't get it back!
Some things were, for example change electrical connectors as I didnt feel mine were 100%, also to tidy up the wiring. This again was agreed and estimated.
I appreciate an estimate is just that, however 59 hours to 172 hours is a big diffence.
Had a quick chat with Consumer Advice and they started to state provision of goods or services acts and all sorts. I don't really want to go dow this route (but its useful to know my rights).
Main thing is I myself thought it was an extra weeks work - so did another company, as did this one (if not a little over a week). I wasn't shying away from completing the build - just getting an expert to check I did it properly, or do jobs I just couldn't do by myself, or didn't feel competant at doing.
I suppose my concern is lack of information during build, now having gone 3 to 4 times over the original budget without being informed. Now having to redo stuff they didn't do as per my instructions.
if you have an extention to your home, you wouldn't expect to pay 3/4 times more than the original estimate and budget. I accept things do go over the agreed price and further discussion is sought - thats my problem, it wasnt and they continued without my approval. I now have a car that needs further work that they originally were to complete that now hasn't been, and things to change that they did wrong. Big lack of comms and big assumptions that at any price, they'd continue and the customer would have to pay regardless. Its not a way to run any business IMHO.
I'm at a loss as they have my car and until its paid I won't get it back!
Edited by bonerp on Monday 8th August 13:47
Edited by bonerp on Monday 8th August 13:50
be very care full, i had my car sold by a garage saying i owed them money and they couldn't get hold of me (which was a lie,) they applied for my v5 as they have possesion of my car, the dvla WIL give them the v5 in there name and they can sell for what they are owed, you will then have to take them to court to resolve the issue luckly i won but it took a year and a lot of money in solicitors fees etc.
try and get your car back in your posession asap
try and get your car back in your posession asap
This reminds me of my own situation with my build - again with the company taking on a part build. I was quoted 40 hours and was rather put out to find that they had used 53 hours in the first week! 
As it happens my car is complete now and I'm happy with the result, but I was a bit put out by them blowing the budget in the first week and not bothering to tell me first. They had also done quite a lot of work that I hadn't authorised including a couple of minor jobs that really didn't need to be done. (They actually put one of them back the way it was in the end!!)
As I said, I am happy with the work that was done and with the end result, and my only real complaint was that work was done without my authorisation and in my case I was happy to authorise the work retrospectively.
It does seem a little unprofessional though. I've spent all my career working on engineering projects and know that if a supplier or contractor carries out additional works without the prior approval of their client, they do so at their own financial risk. In many cases (like mine) the work may well be authorised retrospectively and everybody's happy. Sometimes the work is used as a bargaining chip in a larger negotiation and sometimes it ends up in court!
But there you go - try to get your car back!
As it happens my car is complete now and I'm happy with the result, but I was a bit put out by them blowing the budget in the first week and not bothering to tell me first. They had also done quite a lot of work that I hadn't authorised including a couple of minor jobs that really didn't need to be done. (They actually put one of them back the way it was in the end!!)
As I said, I am happy with the work that was done and with the end result, and my only real complaint was that work was done without my authorisation and in my case I was happy to authorise the work retrospectively.
It does seem a little unprofessional though. I've spent all my career working on engineering projects and know that if a supplier or contractor carries out additional works without the prior approval of their client, they do so at their own financial risk. In many cases (like mine) the work may well be authorised retrospectively and everybody's happy. Sometimes the work is used as a bargaining chip in a larger negotiation and sometimes it ends up in court!
But there you go - try to get your car back!
Absolutely right Frankthered. I am a project manager and if I delivered using the 'blow any budget and timeline' approach I'd be out of work!
Anyways, we have agreed on a final figure to include registration and the garage have said they will look at their processes to ensure they maintain tighter budget control going forwards which can only be good for others...
I have paid well over the original budget though and not got all of the jobs I wanted completing. Some will require further work to put right what they did wrong / did in a way I didn't want. However I can fettle with those over the winter months.
Hoping to get the car back next week - bottom line is that although it is not quite 100%, it will be IVA tested and registered.
thanks for advice chaps. Sometimes just need to take a step back before going in with all guns blazing.
I would suggest to others that are going to use firms to do anything, document everything; your requirement and budget, and get them to provide an estimate and delivery date.
I have been stung twice now, once with the paint job whereby a written quote or requirement was not on paper, and this one where the estimate was provided in writing. Be clear, agree it, and track it.
Anyways, we have agreed on a final figure to include registration and the garage have said they will look at their processes to ensure they maintain tighter budget control going forwards which can only be good for others...
I have paid well over the original budget though and not got all of the jobs I wanted completing. Some will require further work to put right what they did wrong / did in a way I didn't want. However I can fettle with those over the winter months.
Hoping to get the car back next week - bottom line is that although it is not quite 100%, it will be IVA tested and registered.
thanks for advice chaps. Sometimes just need to take a step back before going in with all guns blazing.
I would suggest to others that are going to use firms to do anything, document everything; your requirement and budget, and get them to provide an estimate and delivery date.
I have been stung twice now, once with the paint job whereby a written quote or requirement was not on paper, and this one where the estimate was provided in writing. Be clear, agree it, and track it.
Edited by bonerp on Wednesday 10th August 08:36
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