Help me decide kit car spec
Discussion
I bought a 2nd hand kit car in 2009 - a Stuart Taylor / Aries locoblade.
I sold it the first time I had a problem! Engine wouldn't start and I didnt know where to start fixing it. Couldn't just drive it to a garage. So I sold it! Probably prematurely but I was a bit younger and had much less experience. I always thought if I did it again I'd want a car engine - more grunt, easier to get fixed, I have no knowledge of bikes and it has a reverse gear.
However recently I've decided to build a kit car and quickly gone from wanting a zetec car engine to a bike engine. Figuring that by building it myself I'll have the confidence if anything goes wrong.
How does the performance compare?
Thinking mk indy. But they are now doing BMW engined cars and that sounds interesting.
Anyone know any good build diaries?
I sold it the first time I had a problem! Engine wouldn't start and I didnt know where to start fixing it. Couldn't just drive it to a garage. So I sold it! Probably prematurely but I was a bit younger and had much less experience. I always thought if I did it again I'd want a car engine - more grunt, easier to get fixed, I have no knowledge of bikes and it has a reverse gear.
However recently I've decided to build a kit car and quickly gone from wanting a zetec car engine to a bike engine. Figuring that by building it myself I'll have the confidence if anything goes wrong.
How does the performance compare?
Thinking mk indy. But they are now doing BMW engined cars and that sounds interesting.
Anyone know any good build diaries?
Lots of information on the locost builders forum.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk
As for a build diary, I like to think my thread gives a decent account of a start to finish bike engined kit car assembly, have a look and see what you think.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk
As for a build diary, I like to think my thread gives a decent account of a start to finish bike engined kit car assembly, have a look and see what you think.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
The CEC BEC debate will always be an interesting one, I would decide what you want the car for.
The general consensus if you can call it that is that BEC are good for shorter blasts but can get a bit tiresome after 20 miles or so, the noise though is fantastic.
My advise, try befor you buy, join a club, go to the shows, have a look on Locostbuilders forum.
Car Engine Car you can drive like any other open sports car then let it rip when you fancy.
Bike Engine Car, well it's very hard not to be a hooligan, you just have to push it hard.
The general consensus if you can call it that is that BEC are good for shorter blasts but can get a bit tiresome after 20 miles or so, the noise though is fantastic.
My advise, try befor you buy, join a club, go to the shows, have a look on Locostbuilders forum.
Car Engine Car you can drive like any other open sports car then let it rip when you fancy.
Bike Engine Car, well it's very hard not to be a hooligan, you just have to push it hard.
Having been in both a be7 and a ca7 I prefer car engines. Bike engines seem clunky and unsettled at normal speeds but really do come alive when you get into the top 2-3k revs. Fine if your on a track or on a very quiet road, but most of the time you do get some traffic. Car engines just seem a lot smoother when you aren't going ballistic.
I think if you want a light track weapon then bec is the best way to go. If you want a modicum of refinement (even in a kit car) I would go for a car engine even if the sound isn't as good.
I think if you want a light track weapon then bec is the best way to go. If you want a modicum of refinement (even in a kit car) I would go for a car engine even if the sound isn't as good.
Red16 that is epic but to summarise my technical ability I was getting hung up on how you had marked out for your rivets and accurately traced your panels in post 1. By the end where you were stripping down gear boxes and that I was completely out of my depth! Whilst I understand some of the mechanics I do not have the confidence.
I know u don't need to to build one but I think a car engine has a little more going for it in terms of ease of repairs etc.
Also the comment about beck being jerky at low speeds is something I remember, extremely sensitive throttles that would jump as soon as your foot tapped the peddle!
I think car could be for me. I can always get a bec later if I want.
What car engines are best? Always really liked the idea of a zetec or duratec.
Oh yeah red16 that freelander diff looked huge! Are they all that big?!? It won't be a LSD either will it? Wouldn't u want one on your car?
I know u don't need to to build one but I think a car engine has a little more going for it in terms of ease of repairs etc.
Also the comment about beck being jerky at low speeds is something I remember, extremely sensitive throttles that would jump as soon as your foot tapped the peddle!
I think car could be for me. I can always get a bec later if I want.
What car engines are best? Always really liked the idea of a zetec or duratec.
Oh yeah red16 that freelander diff looked huge! Are they all that big?!? It won't be a LSD either will it? Wouldn't u want one on your car?
I bought a bec and was kinda in the same position as you're self as I had never really been involved with any sort of bikes before.
After 100 miles of buying the car in engine terms my worse case scenario happened by the prop working loose from the engine end which completely destroyed the back of the engine. I left the car for about a month really hating the thing, so I then took the decision to source the engine and fit it myself.
I was learning all the time and found how easy a bike engine was to work on even to the point I was able to do the change with out an engine hoist and even changing a clutch was an easier fix than I thought.
Locostbuilders are a good source of information but the info which I found from Andy Bates of A B Performance absolute gold ,and whom I found to be a real gentleman who will bend over backwards to help.
I have never really been in a cec but I have done over 200 miles in a day in my Toniq R which I now love.
After 100 miles of buying the car in engine terms my worse case scenario happened by the prop working loose from the engine end which completely destroyed the back of the engine. I left the car for about a month really hating the thing, so I then took the decision to source the engine and fit it myself.
I was learning all the time and found how easy a bike engine was to work on even to the point I was able to do the change with out an engine hoist and even changing a clutch was an easier fix than I thought.
Locostbuilders are a good source of information but the info which I found from Andy Bates of A B Performance absolute gold ,and whom I found to be a real gentleman who will bend over backwards to help.
I have never really been in a cec but I have done over 200 miles in a day in my Toniq R which I now love.
We have not had the BEC CEC debate for ages!! Kinda missed it....
There is a guy called Mike in Eastbourne who has a blue/yellow Westfield Megabusa. You would be hard pushed to tell it was a BEC apart from the sequential box pattern. No clonks, bangs from the drivetrain at all, it sounds just like a super sweet 4-cylinder, not necessarily a bike engine. It will cruise at motorway speeds as comfortably and civilised as ANY 7'esque could. And that comes from me who has done over 30,000 miles in bike engined cars. Oh, and it's fast as f
k.
I have also been in another... It was LOUD, it had deafaning induction noise, it had a droning exhaust at motorway speeds, it vibrated, it smelled , and the noise it made was not particularly nice or exciting. Oh, and it WASN'T fast as fk. It had a tuned Zetec in it. It was BY FAR more tiresome and loud than my R1 version. To the point I would not want to drive his long distances, and I have done 500+ miles in 1 day in a BEC before.
I am just saying don't dismiss all BEC's because of any boo-boy haters you might read on forums, a few of which have never been in one. And then they will also bleat on about the dodgy cluch, kangarooing, hair trigger throttle, drone, etc. etc. ect. nightmare in traffic ETc. etc. etc. If you are ever in Surrey come and have a ride in mine, it has changed many peoples opinions because it is properly sorted. Yes it's louder than SOME ( most )CECs, but the noise is smoother and not as tiresome as a flat monotone thrum. And I always say if you want to drive a car with no windscreen, no doors, no roof, and aeroscreen and a crash helmet, the engine noise is the least of your worries. At 90mph the biggest noise in mine is the wind, not the bike engine!
There is a guy called Mike in Eastbourne who has a blue/yellow Westfield Megabusa. You would be hard pushed to tell it was a BEC apart from the sequential box pattern. No clonks, bangs from the drivetrain at all, it sounds just like a super sweet 4-cylinder, not necessarily a bike engine. It will cruise at motorway speeds as comfortably and civilised as ANY 7'esque could. And that comes from me who has done over 30,000 miles in bike engined cars. Oh, and it's fast as f
k.I have also been in another... It was LOUD, it had deafaning induction noise, it had a droning exhaust at motorway speeds, it vibrated, it smelled , and the noise it made was not particularly nice or exciting. Oh, and it WASN'T fast as f
k. It had a tuned Zetec in it. It was BY FAR more tiresome and loud than my R1 version. To the point I would not want to drive his long distances, and I have done 500+ miles in 1 day in a BEC before.I am just saying don't dismiss all BEC's because of any boo-boy haters you might read on forums, a few of which have never been in one. And then they will also bleat on about the dodgy cluch, kangarooing, hair trigger throttle, drone, etc. etc. ect. nightmare in traffic ETc. etc. etc. If you are ever in Surrey come and have a ride in mine, it has changed many peoples opinions because it is properly sorted. Yes it's louder than SOME ( most )CECs, but the noise is smoother and not as tiresome as a flat monotone thrum. And I always say if you want to drive a car with no windscreen, no doors, no roof, and aeroscreen and a crash helmet, the engine noise is the least of your worries. At 90mph the biggest noise in mine is the wind, not the bike engine!
What final drive is he using?Yes the diffs are all around that kind of size, but the Freelander diff is smaller and lighter than a Sierra diff. You're right in saying it has no LSD, but Quaife do an ATB upgrade if you require it, but with a standardish bike engine and Toyo R888's there is honestly no need for a LSD!
I have to agree with Lee that a lot of the detractors either have only had short rides in a BEC (where the driver is no doubt showing of the performance) or have been in poorly sorted cars.
Mines as happy on a trans-europe tour as it is on the track. 90% of noise at cruising speed is wind, even in a Fury with a screen; That has to be even more the case in a seven without screen. I've done 1/2 a dozen 500mile days without issue now and 2x3000mile tours. Of course once any tour gets to the mountains then the BEC comes alive and I'd need a lot of persuasion to be convinced a CEC has enough advantages to forego that.
I also did LeMansClassic with a CEC owner as passenger. His conclusion when compared to his car... "Just about the same"
Mines as happy on a trans-europe tour as it is on the track. 90% of noise at cruising speed is wind, even in a Fury with a screen; That has to be even more the case in a seven without screen. I've done 1/2 a dozen 500mile days without issue now and 2x3000mile tours. Of course once any tour gets to the mountains then the BEC comes alive and I'd need a lot of persuasion to be convinced a CEC has enough advantages to forego that.
I also did LeMansClassic with a CEC owner as passenger. His conclusion when compared to his car... "Just about the same"
The arguments will remain the same, and it's been done to death.
The BEC fanbois will allways tell you that they have no disadvantages, that the engines are 'built to take the revs', and that they have bulletproof reliability (whilst carefully forgetting to mention the thrown conrods, weekly clutch changes and the replacement gearboxes - which effectively means a replacement engine - in less than the normal service interval of a typical family hatchback).
The antis will tell you they are noisy, fragile, excessively complicated and intolerably short geared.
I make no pretence, I've driven plenty of BECs - and I'm with the antis (for road use, at least - I can see the attraction for track days).
I agree, however, that wind noise predominates on any 'Seven' type car at high speed, so the only disadvantage of the extra engine noise is that it gets on your tits if you've got any mechanical sympathy and makes you look like a tit if you ever find yourself trundling through a town centre at 15mph with the engine buzzing away at 4K revs, slipping the the clutch in every time you come to a standstill to prevent it stalling...
You can make your own judgement on reliability by keeping track of dedicated forums like the Yahoo! BEC group, and the BEC forum on Locostbuilders for a few months, and taking note of the number of guys bemoaning blown engines, gearboxes and clutches, or reversing box problems.
You should remember that you've got to be a bit of a masochist to drive 'Sevens', anyway, so you'll find a higher than normal proportion of people don't flinch at the idea of adding bike-engined scourges and cicatrices to the standard issue hair shirt. Whether you're one of the full-blown flagellants, or whether you draw the line at anything that leaves a permanent scar, is a matter for your individual conscience.
You might also wish to note that the two leading 'Seven' manufacturers in this country (Caterham, Westfield) have both dabbled with BECs and are now concentrating primarily on car engines within their respective ranges. ANother designer/manufacturer I have the greatest respect for - Jeremy Phillips - has never really jumped on the bandwagon with them either. The BEC craze has, to some extent, shot its wad.
Ironically, I was playing with bike engined cars (hillclimb single seaters like Jedis and Megapins) long before the craze to fit them into 'Sevens' developed, hence I really didn't get caught up in the excitement of it all - I recognised the pros and cons before ever they were tried in roadgoing kit cars...
The BEC fanbois will allways tell you that they have no disadvantages, that the engines are 'built to take the revs', and that they have bulletproof reliability (whilst carefully forgetting to mention the thrown conrods, weekly clutch changes and the replacement gearboxes - which effectively means a replacement engine - in less than the normal service interval of a typical family hatchback).
The antis will tell you they are noisy, fragile, excessively complicated and intolerably short geared.
I make no pretence, I've driven plenty of BECs - and I'm with the antis (for road use, at least - I can see the attraction for track days).
I agree, however, that wind noise predominates on any 'Seven' type car at high speed, so the only disadvantage of the extra engine noise is that it gets on your tits if you've got any mechanical sympathy and makes you look like a tit if you ever find yourself trundling through a town centre at 15mph with the engine buzzing away at 4K revs, slipping the the clutch in every time you come to a standstill to prevent it stalling...
You can make your own judgement on reliability by keeping track of dedicated forums like the Yahoo! BEC group, and the BEC forum on Locostbuilders for a few months, and taking note of the number of guys bemoaning blown engines, gearboxes and clutches, or reversing box problems.
You should remember that you've got to be a bit of a masochist to drive 'Sevens', anyway, so you'll find a higher than normal proportion of people don't flinch at the idea of adding bike-engined scourges and cicatrices to the standard issue hair shirt. Whether you're one of the full-blown flagellants, or whether you draw the line at anything that leaves a permanent scar, is a matter for your individual conscience.
You might also wish to note that the two leading 'Seven' manufacturers in this country (Caterham, Westfield) have both dabbled with BECs and are now concentrating primarily on car engines within their respective ranges. ANother designer/manufacturer I have the greatest respect for - Jeremy Phillips - has never really jumped on the bandwagon with them either. The BEC craze has, to some extent, shot its wad.
Ironically, I was playing with bike engined cars (hillclimb single seaters like Jedis and Megapins) long before the craze to fit them into 'Sevens' developed, hence I really didn't get caught up in the excitement of it all - I recognised the pros and cons before ever they were tried in roadgoing kit cars...
Just for info... My R1Fury has never thrown a rod or bust a gearbox or even broken down (15000miles and counting) and is still on the original clutch. Yes, oddly, I do have to depress the clutch when I come to a stand-still (AFAIK only autos get away without). It pulls away from tickover. Never had any problem driving in traffic; Rush hour in Genova, Italy being buzzed by a million mopeds, in 35'c temps,included (3x R1 cars together so mine can't be that unusual).
On the otherhand it's strange how CEC kits never break down... do they...
On the otherhand it's strange how CEC kits never break down... do they...
AdiT said:
Just for info... My R1Fury has never thrown a rod or bust a gearbox or even broken down (15000miles and counting) and is still on the original clutch. Yes, oddly, I do have to depress the clutch when I come to a stand-still (AFAIK only autos get away without).
Congratulations! You've done almost 6 month's worth of my typical mileage for my main CEC. And still on the original clutch? Amazing...
The (Crossflow engined) Sylva I sold last year after, what was it, 13 years in my ownership was still running the clutch it was built (and raced for 2 seasons) with. Unless you're fitting a monstrously highly-tuned engine, the engine, clutch and gearbox on a car-engined 'Seven' should be pretty much fit-and-forget, these days - they're typically in a car that is half the weight and does miniscule mileages compared to what they were designed for, so they're very under-stressed in comparison.
FWIIW, my Sylva tipped the scales at 508 kilos (with a cast iron engine, bellhousing and diff. nose and no special effort at weight reduction). To give us an idea of the weight saving that can be acheived from a bike engine, what is your Fury for comparison? I'm guessing not more than 20-30 kilos if it's got the now-mandatory reversing mechanism, unless you've thrown a lot of time and money at stripping out the excess weight.
I never mentioned anything about depressing the clutch... I said slipping the clutch. You need to slip the clutch on any car to get it moving, of course, but with the the lack of low-down torque on bike engines, you have to do rather more of it if you're not to stall when you pull away, I find (which is the main reason bike engines are designed wet clutches: you can spend more time slipping them without cooking them).
Of course, not everybody suffers every malaise and I'm glad to hear you haven't thrown a rod in the monumental mileage you've managed so far but, as I suggested earlier, if you keep an eye on the BEC-specific forums you'll quickly get used to the tales of woe...
Out of interest, why do you think Caterham and even Westfield have tried and then discarded the idea of BEC's (Westfield is still offering the Megabusa, to be fair, but seems to have killed the Megablade, so 3/4 of its road car line up is now car engined again)?
And why does the guy who designed your car remain unconvinced by their merits?
I appreciate that my posts appear antagonistic to the BEC proponents, but I thing there needs to be some balance here.
Ask yourself this: if BECs were the flawless jewels that some would have you believe, why haven't they taken over the entire market by now? Instead, after the inital surge in popularity that can be put down to novelty value, what we appear to be seeing is a trend back towards car engines again... why do we think that is, if they are (as some would have you believe) better in every way?
I said I would not get involved again in this debate, but hey, I have 15 minutes!!
Sam, I was expecting that post from you, and you did not let me down!
You said you wanted balance....
Re: having to slip the clutch.
Total bull. You may have to slip the clutch to pull away on a hillstart, but it normal driving you don't. With no flywheel granted, you cannot "dump" the clutch and get away with it hamfisted, but it is ABSOLUTELY not an issue and only takes a few minutes to become used to it. That stinks to me that you drove / owned a pretty piss - poor built / setup BEC.
Re: Wet Clutches
Believe it or not they are wet to stop motorcyclists from locking the rear wheel and falling off on down changes. It was not 50 years of foresight by the Japanese who pre-emptied The Brits sticking Superbike engines in Lotus 7's. The slip is controlled by spring pressure, up the spring rate and they have the power to pull away with no slipping...
Adi is indeed on his original clutch, I have just had to replace my clutch plates after 28,000 miles. Granted it now has it's 4th set of springs but at £20 per set and 30minutes simple work it is not an issue. Oh, and apart from a new stator ( battery wire fault caused that ) and a £70 selector ( 1 hour DiY exchange ) nothing has broken on my R1 . It still has 6 gears and 4 conrods.
Regarding Jeremy Phillips not embracing bike engines, Jeremy ( lovely guy by the way ) also believes why use a 1.8K when a 1.4 will do? I have no idea why, he just doesn't. He also chooses not to shave his beard of like I do, but I cannot explain that one either?
Re: Carerham and Westfield, Westfield embrace BEC's, Caterham cannot charge extortionate amounts for bike engines and fear of undercutting an R400 by nearly £10k with an equivalent performance BEC is not good business. Believe me, if Colin Chapman was still at the helm they would have bike engines, and be nowhere near as profitable, just like the 70's then...
Re: your "508 kg boat anchor Sylva with " no regard to weight saving whatsoever " Well I assume by that you mean it had a Windscreen, weather gear, leather seats, a heater, some old Sierra wheels, oil, water and a full tank of fuel?
Quite frankly, I don't believe you.
Even if aeroscreened, GRP sets, no heater, I would be hard pushed to believe.
Mine is 450kgs with a 1/2 tank of fuel and things like lightweight brakes . I can lift my entire engine and box into the chassis unassisted . Could you lift a fully dressed crossflow and gearbox combo into yours? No, and it will weigh a LOT more that that 58 kilo defeceit. "Boat Anchor". I never christened them that.
Re: Torque.
Pulling away from tickover has little to do with torque in a 500kg car.
Mine has peak power of about 330bhp and peak TORQUE of around 200 per ton. How hot hatches have torque to weight in excess of that? Only the very good ones, it is still respectable figure for torque and never does it feel "slow".
It sound to me that you either built / owned / rode in a right shed of a BEC and are scarred for life. Yes they do have drawbacks and are not for everybody. And I drove a high spec aeroscreened Caterham R400 back from Belgium, and it was 90% as noisy as mine. In fact, the reveered R500 with optionsl sequential box has lots of foibles of a BEC, but that is overlooked due to the sheer excitement it gives.
I am done on this, I will not reply any more and I do respect a lot of other stuff you say on other matters.
But change the record eh? It's scratched, and it's not a particularly good one anyway :-)
Sam, I was expecting that post from you, and you did not let me down!
You said you wanted balance....
Re: having to slip the clutch.
Total bull. You may have to slip the clutch to pull away on a hillstart, but it normal driving you don't. With no flywheel granted, you cannot "dump" the clutch and get away with it hamfisted, but it is ABSOLUTELY not an issue and only takes a few minutes to become used to it. That stinks to me that you drove / owned a pretty piss - poor built / setup BEC.
Re: Wet Clutches
Believe it or not they are wet to stop motorcyclists from locking the rear wheel and falling off on down changes. It was not 50 years of foresight by the Japanese who pre-emptied The Brits sticking Superbike engines in Lotus 7's. The slip is controlled by spring pressure, up the spring rate and they have the power to pull away with no slipping...
Adi is indeed on his original clutch, I have just had to replace my clutch plates after 28,000 miles. Granted it now has it's 4th set of springs but at £20 per set and 30minutes simple work it is not an issue. Oh, and apart from a new stator ( battery wire fault caused that ) and a £70 selector ( 1 hour DiY exchange ) nothing has broken on my R1 . It still has 6 gears and 4 conrods.
Regarding Jeremy Phillips not embracing bike engines, Jeremy ( lovely guy by the way ) also believes why use a 1.8K when a 1.4 will do? I have no idea why, he just doesn't. He also chooses not to shave his beard of like I do, but I cannot explain that one either?
Re: Carerham and Westfield, Westfield embrace BEC's, Caterham cannot charge extortionate amounts for bike engines and fear of undercutting an R400 by nearly £10k with an equivalent performance BEC is not good business. Believe me, if Colin Chapman was still at the helm they would have bike engines, and be nowhere near as profitable, just like the 70's then...
Re: your "508 kg boat anchor Sylva with " no regard to weight saving whatsoever " Well I assume by that you mean it had a Windscreen, weather gear, leather seats, a heater, some old Sierra wheels, oil, water and a full tank of fuel?
Quite frankly, I don't believe you.
Even if aeroscreened, GRP sets, no heater, I would be hard pushed to believe.
Mine is 450kgs with a 1/2 tank of fuel and things like lightweight brakes . I can lift my entire engine and box into the chassis unassisted . Could you lift a fully dressed crossflow and gearbox combo into yours? No, and it will weigh a LOT more that that 58 kilo defeceit. "Boat Anchor". I never christened them that.
Re: Torque.
Pulling away from tickover has little to do with torque in a 500kg car.
Mine has peak power of about 330bhp and peak TORQUE of around 200 per ton. How hot hatches have torque to weight in excess of that? Only the very good ones, it is still respectable figure for torque and never does it feel "slow".
It sound to me that you either built / owned / rode in a right shed of a BEC and are scarred for life. Yes they do have drawbacks and are not for everybody. And I drove a high spec aeroscreened Caterham R400 back from Belgium, and it was 90% as noisy as mine. In fact, the reveered R500 with optionsl sequential box has lots of foibles of a BEC, but that is overlooked due to the sheer excitement it gives.
I am done on this, I will not reply any more and I do respect a lot of other stuff you say on other matters.
But change the record eh? It's scratched, and it's not a particularly good one anyway :-)
MUST.... RESIST......
Doh! Slomax, good comment. "The lovers will love and the haters will hate".
The difference is, I don't know ANY bike engined car owners who "hate" car engines? Why should they? They just like bike engines in cars. End of.
The "haters" I don't understand. People like our friend here. Just spouting bks. That bks WILL put people off like our other friend OP. And many others . Are all motorcycle riders mad then? They have a lot of the drawbacks of a BEC and I don't believe they are particularly refined on a motorway either. Indeed when me and Adi have toured the Alps several times, the bloke on his R1 motorcycle who joined us one looked absolutely shattered at the end of some days. We didn't.
If anyone is going to "hate" ANY
variation of kitcar here ( I don't particularly gyrate to 355 reps and the like but don't rubbish them with unguided, misjudged, ill informed nonsense having never been in one, some people like them and that is what PH is for ) have a valid reason for doing it based on facts of not liking a good one, not a kangarooing, stalling, juddering, high mileage smoker nailed together from
scrapyard bits.
I took a GT2 RS owning stranger out in mine once, he loved it. So much so he kept in contact and I helped him buy one. And a guy who drove an Aston DB9. I could understand it if
they did not "get" a BEC and spouted off about them. But not people with virtually identical cars with car engines in????
OP, where are you? PM me and I will sort a ride out for you in a proper one.
That really is it from me now I promise!!
Doh! Slomax, good comment. "The lovers will love and the haters will hate".
The difference is, I don't know ANY bike engined car owners who "hate" car engines? Why should they? They just like bike engines in cars. End of.
The "haters" I don't understand. People like our friend here. Just spouting b
ks. That bks WILL put people off like our other friend OP. And many others . Are all motorcycle riders mad then? They have a lot of the drawbacks of a BEC and I don't believe they are particularly refined on a motorway either. Indeed when me and Adi have toured the Alps several times, the bloke on his R1 motorcycle who joined us one looked absolutely shattered at the end of some days. We didn't. If anyone is going to "hate" ANY
variation of kitcar here ( I don't particularly gyrate to 355 reps and the like but don't rubbish them with unguided, misjudged, ill informed nonsense having never been in one, some people like them and that is what PH is for ) have a valid reason for doing it based on facts of not liking a good one, not a kangarooing, stalling, juddering, high mileage smoker nailed together from
scrapyard bits.
I took a GT2 RS owning stranger out in mine once, he loved it. So much so he kept in contact and I helped him buy one. And a guy who drove an Aston DB9. I could understand it if
they did not "get" a BEC and spouted off about them. But not people with virtually identical cars with car engines in????
OP, where are you? PM me and I will sort a ride out for you in a proper one.
That really is it from me now I promise!!
Sam_68 said:
The arguments will remain the same, and it's been done to death.
...weekly clutch changes and the replacement gearboxes - which effectively means a replacement engine - in less than the normal service interval of a typical family hatchback).
So by your own measure I should be on my 200th clutch or if you meant taking into account your average milage (apparently 30000 /year) every 575miles so that'd be my 26th clutch... or was the above quote a lie? Do you really believe that? I guess the rest of your statments should be taken with a large pinch of salt....weekly clutch changes and the replacement gearboxes - which effectively means a replacement engine - in less than the normal service interval of a typical family hatchback).
I've just out of interest I've been through the first 10 pages of the Locstbuilders BEC section and got to post 95 before there was any hint of a broken BEC and then only someone asking for where to get parts. All the rest (engine related) were just build questions. As for the Yahoo BEC list, thats been virtualy deserted for the last 2 years (no messages this month and 2 in Feb). So I guess you're right they're crammed with stories of busted BEC's...
Some people like BEC's and some would prefer a car engine but that choice should be based on the facts and real experience, not the lies trotted out repeatedly by some.
I had a great day a few weeks ago, following Slomax around the Cheshire lanes. It's a great car and looked fun to drive and I certainly enjoyed trundling along behind. His car wouldn't be for me but I'd not make up stories to rubbish it should someone ask "What are Lomax 3-wheelers like?"
OP, you're more than welcome to come and get an extended ride in mine if Manchester is more convienient than Lee's.
Edited by AdiT on Thursday 22 March 15:39
Oh how I love Pistonheads!
Lovers, haters, BEC, CEC!
I think it really comes down to what you want from the car you are going to build/buy.
I am building a lightweight full bodied kit. No door, windows etc but it will end up over 550kg so I am fitting a Supercharged (250+ BHP and 200 torques)MX5 engine with 6 speed box and LSD.
This I expect will go well enough on track to keep Lee within sight and allow me to sit at the back of the line going up the last Alp of the day, on day 6 of the annual tour smoking a fag.
Now if I had decided to buld a car that could come in around 450kg or less then it would have been bike engined. There is nothing like the delicacy of a BEC on track. They feel so light and agile. That extra 100kg makes such a difference.
My advice..... have a go in a good example of both and decide what works best for you. Oh and don't listen to those that say BEC are complicated and run on vodou! They are just funny little Japanese engines with a few wierd bits stuck to them!
Lovers, haters, BEC, CEC!
I think it really comes down to what you want from the car you are going to build/buy.
I am building a lightweight full bodied kit. No door, windows etc but it will end up over 550kg so I am fitting a Supercharged (250+ BHP and 200 torques)MX5 engine with 6 speed box and LSD.
This I expect will go well enough on track to keep Lee within sight and allow me to sit at the back of the line going up the last Alp of the day, on day 6 of the annual tour smoking a fag.
Now if I had decided to buld a car that could come in around 450kg or less then it would have been bike engined. There is nothing like the delicacy of a BEC on track. They feel so light and agile. That extra 100kg makes such a difference.
My advice..... have a go in a good example of both and decide what works best for you. Oh and don't listen to those that say BEC are complicated and run on vodou! They are just funny little Japanese engines with a few wierd bits stuck to them!
RX7 engine as a compromise? Wouldn't have occurred to me until I bought a stylus with one installed. Revs like mad, plenty of power, small size so you can mount it a fair way back, no idea about the weight.
Fuel economy isn't great but it all depends on what you want it for. Emissions might be an issue depending what tests your car will be subject to.
Cheers,
Mark
Fuel economy isn't great but it all depends on what you want it for. Emissions might be an issue depending what tests your car will be subject to.
Cheers,
Mark
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