***WOW***

[RudolphsOwner]

Forum title explains my thoughts, what about yours?

I'm sure alot of you have come across DDR Motorsports SP4/8 before in the last couple of years, however since purchasing my MX5 a few months back I've (briefly) fallen away from my constant pursuit of kit car knowledge... anyways... I thought I would have a brief look at DDR's website just to see if they are still in business and MY WORD!... wow!... I am very impressed by what continually looks like an extremely well prepared product at a jaw dropping realistic price!

Check out the video, although a bit cheesy I still want one, preferably Honda CTR Vtec powered...

http://vimeo.com/27252271

And as I mentioned, the price list (at time of writing XE show 1$ as £0.62)

http://www.ddrmotorsport.com/buildcosts.php (Vtec is the middle build spec $16,995 = £10,600.... of course plus import/tax costs etc).

so???....

[chuntington101]

if you do go for it expect to carry out mods to get it IVA approved. Someone on here tried to get the very pritty RR SLC through and it took quite a bit of effort!

[RudolphsOwner]

chuntington101 said:

if you do go for it expect to carry out mods to get it IVA approved. Someone on here tried to get the very pritty RR SLC through and it took quite a bit of effort!

Agreed, although isn't that the same person that then tried to sell them for over £150K a piece??..... I'll be completely honest, I'm in no position to purchase one however I would love to see them/or something similar in the UK. It just looks like such a genuinely well designed and engineered piece of kit with affordability and, dare I say, aimed towards a younger generation that appreciate everything about the Lotus Seven and AC Cobra reps but appreciate that maybe it is time for something alot more modern.

[craig7l]

chuntington101 said:

if you do go for it expect to carry out mods to get it IVA approved. Someone on here tried to get the very pritty RR SLC through and it took quite a bit of effort!

yes. and suprisingly some people still think that with a few bits of rubber cover grommets and a few engineering tweeks its easy possible... DEVELOPMENT.
Development takes time and money.

for further references ask:
Advanced Motorsport and Engineering uK
Chiron world sportscars (aspiracars)uk
absolute pace (formely RCR AU)
TMME motorsport uk
Speedwell replicas uk

Mike Budd @ IVA technical (if he is still there as i think we ni gave him a nervous breakdown)

or i refer to a real novel idea of the manufacturer of a import kit actually paying for, providing and presenting a UK IVA passed demo car - then with the time and effort on development associated on this they will need to recoup the costs and maybe sell turnkey cars at £140,000 to make it viable.

or - It would take a very charitable person to take the first DDR car - spend time on money on development and achieving IVA and then presenting it as a present for DDR to achieve sales on the back of......
regards

[RudolphsOwner]

craig7l said:

yes. and suprisingly some people still think that with a few bits of rubber cover grommets and a few engineering tweeks its easy possible... DEVELOPMENT.
Development takes time and money.

for further references ask:
Advanced Motorsport and Engineering uK
Chiron world sportscars (aspiracars)uk
absolute pace (formely RCR AU)
TMME motorsport uk
Speedwell replicas uk

Mike Budd @ IVA technical (if he is still there as i think we ni gave him a nervous breakdown)

or i refer to a real novel idea of the manufacturer of a import kit actually paying for, providing and presenting a UK IVA passed demo car - then with the time and effort on development associated on this they will need to recoup the costs and maybe sell turnkey cars at £140,000 to make it viable.

or - It would take a very charitable person to take the first DDR car - spend time on money on development and achieving IVA and then presenting it as a present for DDR to achieve sales on the back of......
regards

But there are 50+ kit car companies in the UK producing cars from scratch that cost nowhere near £140,000... alot of which are very good! Also the Aspire is designed/developed to be a pinnacle of motorsport engineering, whereby a DDR with CTR running gear should be good, but not comparable to an Ultima.

My main point is actually slightly different to the original post (sorry). Why don't we have something similarly exotic yet affordable in the UK? something along the lines of a mk1 elise powered by honda Vtec with relative everyday useability (Proper windscreen/doors, relatively good roof). If there is a market for Caterhams, Radicals, Ultimas, Westfields etc surely there is a market for a lightweight, affordable low volume sportscar which would be relatively easy to live with in the rain.

[craig7l]

there is the very car.... a Mk2 elise but dont buy all the extra gubbings such as A/C, metallic paint and upgrade bits....?? how much are they? - sorry really havnt looked lately although i had one...

[Red16]

It does look nice in the video but you can tell it's been built to a budget looking at things like the poor brakes etc, makes you wonder where else things have been compromised!



Why is the bloke at 1m 12s pretending to measure the decals with a vernier calliper, lol.

Edited by Red16 on Tuesday 3rd April 17:11

[RudolphsOwner]

craig7l said:

there is the very car.... a Mk2 elise but dont buy all the extra gubbings such as A/C, metallic paint and upgrade bits....?? how much are they? - sorry really havnt looked lately although i had one...

Very true, basic price is just over £25K according to Evo and does all that I ask, but misses out on one pedantic issue, that it is not a kit car

[RudolphsOwner]

That's not a panel gap, it's a cooling vent!!

[craig7l]

RudolphsOwner said:

Very true, basic price is just over £25K according to Evo and does all that I ask, but misses out on one pedantic issue, that it is not a kit car

so lets consolidate...so you want:

a proven UK kit car IVA compatible
no development needed
costing around £10k for the kit plus donor (£?)
that has exotic looks (aka miami GT)
roof and waterproof and daily usable

know im a thinking...what is there....?

[RudolphsOwner]

craig7l said:

so lets consolidate...so you want:

a proven UK kit car IVA compatible
no development needed
costing around £10k for the kit plus donor (£?)
that has exotic looks (aka miami GT)
roof and waterproof and daily usable

know im a thinking...what is there....?

Exactly! So in other words the underpinnings of one of the countless 7/Cobra replicas but with a well designed, flowing body that has opening doors, a roof and, dare I say it, some windows that perhaps you could possibly wind down slightly. Maybe it could be an original design by one of the budding students from Coventry's world renowned automotive design course who would be interested in some freelance work to help build their portfolio, maybe the car could be engineered to be a bare basics driving machine for the masses of pistonheads that drive with the radio turned off anyway, maybe it could be based upon a business model not built around the need to sell one car to claw back 100% of investment but the dream to sell 100's with a modern classic design that would appeal for the next 10, 20 or even 30 years thereby bring the prices down even further whilst being able to build a strong and stable brand, maybe by employing a dedicated team of recently graduated engineers you could possibly get some government funding to help, maybe promote the fact that it would be a youthful british team and get some financial backing/sponsorship/promotion within the media and some large brands/celebrity endorsement.......

But then again what the f**k do I know.

[RudolphsOwner]

Just found this, admittedly it's regarding starting a kit car company from scratch but does give rough guides, with a lot of input from guys that have already been there:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Perhaps the original idea of adapting the DDR would be cheaper than constructing a car completely from scratch.......

[Steffan]

If you are genuinely interested in getting a built price for a Kit car based on this kit in the UK suitably modified to pass IVA successfully there is several simple solutions which I suggest considering.

One would be to price it up yourself and try to guesstimate the changes needed to meet IVA requirements and the costs involved.

This would be doomed to failure IMO because you need the knowledge gained from significant IVA experience getting a number of cars through IVA successfully, which cannot be gained without following that process, in order to get this anywhere near right.

There are likely to be real problems in that route. Either you will overestimate, and become dispirited, or underestimate and face either giving up or bringing someone with that knowledge into the equation.

There are to my personal knowledge a significant number of Kit Car manufacturers who would welcome the opportunity to offer a completed build price for such a project. All of them have considerable experience of IVA and are commercially aware of the reality of Kit car costs.

IMO consulting a selection of existing experts and obtaining a view as to what the costs would be must be the more realistic approach. Much less chance of a half built drop out.

I have personal contact with five currently. If you PM me I will happily supply their contact numbers.

Alternatively consult on Pistonheads or other internet discussion groups in this field.

Good though the forums are and informative though the conversations may be I do think the application of direct relevance and up to date experience on IVA's with a wide variety of vehicles would serve you better.

But it is very much your choice.

[craig7l]

totally agree with stefan.... but would add that even an expert after viewing what he is starting with can fall foul on quotations as development on items is into the unknown time wise...and indeed raw material and parts wise

once your into a project as this is extremely difficult to back down after money has been spent...and tied into a development company that will take on any project for you if your paying the bills......

lets just take say a simple operation of front window wipe... an expert would look at it and make an evaluation that say the motor and wipe needed to be repositioned to meet swept area criteria of IVA - a simple task it would seem - allocated 3days... after day 1 he finds the motor doesnt fit where he thought and some of the bulkhead needs chopping and fettling - after a week and a half on this task, on operation he finds that the wiper now fouls on sweep and catches - so rehash his ideas and devlopment further brackets and such.. where does development begin and end.....such a job has now taken 2 weeks and still not purrrrfect....

multiply the above scenario with a 100 or so other "small" tasks and all of a sudden your into 6months full time labour on the project when really it should be the initial manufacturers liabilty to fund this to sell further kits.....

[Russ Bost]

Can't help but think the kit looks stupidly cheap, & I've always been told, "when something looks too good to be true it probably is!"

Personally I wouldn't be too worried about getting it thro' IVA, immediate hurdles would be glass, is it to the correct IVA spec, I think I saw lexan mentioned for side windows - is that IVA ok??? (I don't do glass with my kits! ) & seat belt mountings - if they are too low - & the IVA criteria is a very strange one - that could prove a major headache, tho' not insurmountable, headlamp height may also be a prob, but other than that can't see anything that's likely to be a show stopper.

My Q would be if it's anything like as good as it looks in the pics why is there only one in existance?? (Unless they've all been painted orange!). I would say any car that looks that good would sell as the day is long for £70 -80k so why supply it as a kit? As a manufacturer surely you'd make vastly more to supply only as a built vehicle?

Don't think the comparison with the Elise is fair or realistic, unless the pics are highly misleading this is a lot bigger & chunkier than the Elise - the Elise is very firmly in toy car territory, not in Ferrari/Zonda/Gumpert territory which this looks a lot closer to.

According to the website it's on the front cover of Complete Kitcar March edition - so what did they make of it - or was it just a cover pic? (I don't get any of the kitcar mags anymore).

If they'd like to appoint me as UK agent I don't mind building one.

[craig7l]

Russ Bost said:

If they'd like to appoint me as UK agent I don't mind building one.

when the USA has 50off UK's in the form of states why would they want the hassle of a very strict IVA process when in most US states there is virtually no criteria to meet - the market is big enough over there id say

unless they are deposit scammers and thats a whole different kettle of fish in itself..... "payment terms and conditions"...they would probabaly prefer to deal export...

[Steffan]

Russ Bost said:

Can't help but think the kit looks stupidly cheap, & I've always been told, "when something looks too good to be true it probably is!"

Personally I wouldn't be too worried about getting it thro' IVA, immediate hurdles would be glass, is it to the correct IVA spec, I think I saw lexan mentioned for side windows - is that IVA ok??? (I don't do glass with my kits! ) & seat belt mountings - if they are too low - & the IVA criteria is a very strange one - that could prove a major headache, tho' not insurmountable, headlamp height may also be a prob, but other than that can't see anything that's likely to be a show stopper.

My Q would be if it's anything like as good as it looks in the pics why is there only one in existance?? (Unless they've all been painted orange!). I would say any car that looks that good would sell as the day is long for £70 -80k so why supply it as a kit? As a manufacturer surely you'd make vastly more to supply only as a built vehicle?

Don't think the comparison with the Elise is fair or realistic, unless the pics are highly misleading this is a lot bigger & chunkier than the Elise - the Elise is very firmly in toy car territory, not in Ferrari/Zonda/Gumpert territory which this looks a lot closer to.

According to the website it's on the front cover of Complete Kitcar March edition - so what did they make of it - or was it just a cover pic? (I don't get any of the kitcar mags anymore).

If they'd like to appoint me as UK agent I don't mind building one.

I agree entirely with the comments of Russ Bost with regard to the likely end value in the UK and the question of why are there not shedloads being built at that price? Why indeed??

Old adage which has stood me well.

If something on the Internet looks too cheap it very probably is too cheap. Lesson number ONE in IT.

Russ had demonstrated the attitude and understanding which I would expect from a regular IVA participant.

Hence my original suggestion. If you want a real price get the Kit Car makers involved.

[RudolphsOwner]

Russ Bost said:

My Q would be if it's anything like as good as it looks in the pics why is there only one in existance?? (Unless they've all been painted orange!). I would say any car that looks that good would sell as the day is long for £70 -80k so why supply it as a kit? As a manufacturer surely you'd make vastly more to supply only as a built vehicle?

I think it's good for what it is, make no bones about it, it is a cheap kit, just under £11K for the full kit minus your usual all based around the CTR, ITR or Accord. If you opt for the MR2 based version it drops to under £10K. I think that is phenomenal value, realistically comparable to DNA 360/430 builds. I know they also do the V8 version and of course that will lead to much more expense in every corner and 99.9% of people (myself included) would rather go the tried and tested Ultima route.

Russ Bost said:

Don't think the comparison with the Elise is fair or realistic, unless the pics are highly misleading this is a lot bigger & chunkier than the Elise - the Elise is very firmly in toy car territory, not in Ferrari/Zonda/Gumpert territory which this looks a lot closer to.

I don't mean to compare with regards to size, The pics do show it side by side with a 458 and they are roughly the same size, the comparison was with regards to how exciting it looks. If we are talking in theory, and I lived in america where this car is road legal and able to be built for less than £30K, yet then be compared in any way to Zonda's or Gumperts, would be extremely gratifying.

Russ Bost said:

According to the website it's on the front cover of Complete Kitcar March edition - so what did they make of it - or was it just a cover pic? (I don't get any of the kitcar mags anymore).
If they'd like to appoint me as UK agent I don't mind building one.

If they appoint you as UK agent, I don't mind you building one either... just make sure you let me give it the glance over when it's all done

[RudolphsOwner]

Steffan said:

I agree entirely with the comments of Russ Bost with regard to the likely end value in the UK and the question of why are there not shedloads being built at that price? Why indeed??

Indeed, I do wonder that too, all I can say is that I have followed their site for a good couple of years and viewed their videos on youtube a good number of times. They used to have a blue one previously which they took to various shows etc but most likely the orange one is the exact same but with a fresh colour for a new season.

P.s. thanks for the offer regarding recommending builders but I'm afraid this is all purely a theoretical conversation as mentioned earlier

[Steffan]

RudolphsOwner said:

Steffan said:

I agree entirely with the comments of Russ Bost with regard to the likely end value in the UK and the question of why are there not shedloads being built at that price? Why indeed??

Indeed, I do wonder that too, all I can say is that I have followed their site for a good couple of years and viewed their videos on youtube a good number of times. They used to have a blue one previously which they took to various shows etc but most likely the orange one is the exact same but with a fresh colour for a new season.

P.s. thanks for the offer regarding recommending builders but I'm afraid this is all purely a theoretical conversation as mentioned earlier

Not a problem. Looking is free. Actually driving is my preference.