Advice please?
Discussion
I am new to the kit car world and would like a few pointers? I currently have a TVR T350T, which as much as i love i never use (1000 miles a year). The runs i do are a quick hour on a sunday morning in fine weather blasting down the county lanes.
This has made me think would i have more fun with a bike engined kit car? and the swop would certainly put a few quid in my pocket. I want a caterham style kit car, but modern looking(digital dash, black wheels etc.) with a sub 4 sec 0-60 time.
At the moment im just looking for advice as to which models i should look at with what engines and at what cost??
Many Thanks
This has made me think would i have more fun with a bike engined kit car? and the swop would certainly put a few quid in my pocket. I want a caterham style kit car, but modern looking(digital dash, black wheels etc.) with a sub 4 sec 0-60 time.
At the moment im just looking for advice as to which models i should look at with what engines and at what cost??
Many Thanks
Speaking as an ex-TVR owner (who prefers 'Sevens', for what it's worth), the best advice I can give to start off with is that you should arrange to drive some - preferably extended test drives.
Despite the 'paper' performance statistics (acceleration) being similar, I can tell you that the actual driving experience of a lightweight (particularly bike engined) 'Seven' is a million miles away from a TVR.
You might be totally blown away by the rawness and intensity of the experience, or you might by totally underwhelmed and irritated by their gutlessness and lack of top-end performance, compared to the TVR... you'll find they're all noise and fury and manic acceleration at lower speeds, but by the time you reach the speed at which your TVR would have just been getting into its stride, they're all spent - they've run out of gears and into an aerodynamic brick wall.
There are a few companies who will rent you a (car engined) Caterham Seven for a day or weekend, and this might be a good idea to see if you like the genre, before you look into the even more specialised niche of BEC machines.
Despite the 'paper' performance statistics (acceleration) being similar, I can tell you that the actual driving experience of a lightweight (particularly bike engined) 'Seven' is a million miles away from a TVR.
You might be totally blown away by the rawness and intensity of the experience, or you might by totally underwhelmed and irritated by their gutlessness and lack of top-end performance, compared to the TVR... you'll find they're all noise and fury and manic acceleration at lower speeds, but by the time you reach the speed at which your TVR would have just been getting into its stride, they're all spent - they've run out of gears and into an aerodynamic brick wall.
There are a few companies who will rent you a (car engined) Caterham Seven for a day or weekend, and this might be a good idea to see if you like the genre, before you look into the even more specialised niche of BEC machines.
A trip to Stoneleigh show next month and a chat with a few owners might be your best bet. You should manage to blag a ride or two there (look me up on the JPSC club pitch and I'll oblige) or alternatively there might be a meet near you where you could get an extended ride out.
BECs are a bit "Marmite" and I think it's established that Sam isn't in the "love it" camp.
In the case of mine <80mph is fine for 1st and 2nd gear action.
BECs are a bit "Marmite" and I think it's established that Sam isn't in the "love it" camp.
In the case of mine <80mph is fine for 1st and 2nd gear action.AdiT said:
BECs are a bit "Marmite" and I think it's established that Sam isn't in the "love it" camp.
This is quite true, but even with car engined 'Sevens' (which I am very much a fan of), the top-end performance can feel disappointingly limp compared to something like a TVR (and I'm no fan of TVRs, either...).It's all to do with the effects of aerodynamics on cars that obtain a high power:weight ratio by means of light weight, compared to those that obtain it by means of high power, but I won't bore you with the physics.
If you're near York you're welcome to pop round for a ride in mine and a chat Dale. I have an MK Indy R R1. She's been nicely fettled (new engine, new steering, stripped and rebuilt suspension, rolling roaded and various other bits over winter) and is raring to go.
I track mine (and it's road legal) and would agree with the comments regarding top end. Past 125mph she runs out of legs really so I avoid silverstone etc. tbh though it's so much fun up to that speed, and so cheap to run on road and track that I prefer tracking it by miles compared to my other cars which are much more powerful but heavier and less raw.
You can't beat the furious acceleration, handling and directness of a 7 IMO. Whether you go bike engined or not is a personal preference I suppose. I've had both and prefer mine for what it's meant for which is predominantly track. Not sure if that translates for predominantly road...
I track mine (and it's road legal) and would agree with the comments regarding top end. Past 125mph she runs out of legs really so I avoid silverstone etc. tbh though it's so much fun up to that speed, and so cheap to run on road and track that I prefer tracking it by miles compared to my other cars which are much more powerful but heavier and less raw.
You can't beat the furious acceleration, handling and directness of a 7 IMO. Whether you go bike engined or not is a personal preference I suppose. I've had both and prefer mine for what it's meant for which is predominantly track. Not sure if that translates for predominantly road...
Yeah Sam, my R1-car smashes into the rev-limiter at about 130mph (GPS), pretty s
te and just at the point most TVR's are getting into their stride. Car engined kit cars go way past this speed, and they dont blow up, throw rods, break gearboxes etc. etc. etc.
Don't spout your nonsense again eh? Try and let this fella experience one for himself and make his own mind up, you never know he might like it?
te and just at the point most TVR's are getting into their stride. Car engined kit cars go way past this speed, and they dont blow up, throw rods, break gearboxes etc. etc. etc. Don't spout your nonsense again eh? Try and let this fella experience one for himself and make his own mind up, you never know he might like it?
Dalenorth, I know a lot of TVR owners go to Zolder each year? Its a big event I believe, and they time their laps, I saw them online somewhere?? Its a good comparison to proper performance on track, we go every year to Zolder and our laps are average 1.53 ( R500 Caterham ) and 1.57 ( R1 phoenix ) both in road spec, 2-up with passengers which blunts things somewhat. That is with having to back off twice per lap for the draconian noise meters ( two strikes you are out, and its a long way home..) , but I guess all the TVRs have to back off as well! Not scientific by any means, but a fair indicator of what performance roughly should be comparable with a TVR 350 ( I think maybe there was a link on the PH TVR forum, I would not have looked too far for it ).
Whatever you get, bike engined or car engined, the driving experience will be very removed from your TVR. As Adi said, have a ride in a few befor you commit either way.
Whatever you get, bike engined or car engined, the driving experience will be very removed from your TVR. As Adi said, have a ride in a few befor you commit either way.
Furyblade_Lee said:
Don't spout your nonsense again eh? Try and let this fella experience one for himself and make his own mind up, you never know he might like it?
Read my first post again. That's exactly what I was suggesting.
Glad your BEC can 'smash into the limiter' (at how many revs?
) at the comfortable cruising speed of my Skoda hatchback. Sam, there are very few places in the UK where you can legally get even a quick road car much above 130mph, even racetracks, except maybe Thruxton or Snetterton. Unless you are talking about speeding in a straight line like a penis on the motorway? Not into that personally, so crazy top speeds are a little irrelevant to me.
Dale - bike or car engined I can't make a comment on but will you have more fun in 7-esque car than your TVR? Yes - unquestionably!
I have had Cerbera, Cobra, Noble P4 and beach buggy (!) prior to entering the low end of 7's ownership with my current toy a Robin Hood. 7 purists will raise their noses a little but with a Rover V8 stuffed up its chuff it is just an unbeatable automotive tonic when you need a pick me up. It's quick enough wthout being mad (sub 4 seconds in a 7 must be mental) raw yet direct as has been mentioned - the whole exposed to elements 4 wheeled motorbike thing, bit of a cliche but true. I have yet to drive it without a smile on my face which I cannot say for most of its predecessors. For pure driving fun I'd rank them: 7/Buggy (yes, buggy - you don't need bhp to have fun) joint 1st, Cerbera/cobra 2nd and Noble P4 3rd despite being the quickest @ 500bhp/ton with the wick turned up. Everyone who's been out in it so far has laughed during at least part of the journey, smiled through 90% of it and said "I love it!" when they've got out.
The thing is whilst the cobra and cerb were monsters in their own right, certainly with the cerb something would always trigger that "what was that noise?" alarm in my head usually just when I was relaxing into really enjoying it. Those cars have a pretence that the 7s just don't have - kids will laugh, smile and point as will adults but never in a negative way you can get with the icons I just mentioned - it's like everyone's in on it.
Sum up - all I know is within the first minute of roaring off down the road for the test drive (on an admittedly idylic sunny day) I knew I was going to buy the car. I'm pretty sure you will have an instant reaction to one too (which way that goes however...;) ) If I can have that much fun in a 'cheapy' think how much fun you could have - go out in one and you'll "get it".
I have had Cerbera, Cobra, Noble P4 and beach buggy (!) prior to entering the low end of 7's ownership with my current toy a Robin Hood. 7 purists will raise their noses a little but with a Rover V8 stuffed up its chuff it is just an unbeatable automotive tonic when you need a pick me up. It's quick enough wthout being mad (sub 4 seconds in a 7 must be mental) raw yet direct as has been mentioned - the whole exposed to elements 4 wheeled motorbike thing, bit of a cliche but true. I have yet to drive it without a smile on my face which I cannot say for most of its predecessors. For pure driving fun I'd rank them: 7/Buggy (yes, buggy - you don't need bhp to have fun) joint 1st, Cerbera/cobra 2nd and Noble P4 3rd despite being the quickest @ 500bhp/ton with the wick turned up. Everyone who's been out in it so far has laughed during at least part of the journey, smiled through 90% of it and said "I love it!" when they've got out.
The thing is whilst the cobra and cerb were monsters in their own right, certainly with the cerb something would always trigger that "what was that noise?" alarm in my head usually just when I was relaxing into really enjoying it. Those cars have a pretence that the 7s just don't have - kids will laugh, smile and point as will adults but never in a negative way you can get with the icons I just mentioned - it's like everyone's in on it.
Sum up - all I know is within the first minute of roaring off down the road for the test drive (on an admittedly idylic sunny day) I knew I was going to buy the car. I'm pretty sure you will have an instant reaction to one too (which way that goes however...;) ) If I can have that much fun in a 'cheapy' think how much fun you could have - go out in one and you'll "get it".
dalenorth said:
Thanks for the advice Sam, a BEC might be the solution im looking for as many of the roads i drive on are sub 80MPH and its the acceleration that interests me. I will try and get a ride in one to help make my mind up.
Whereabouts in the UK are you. Knowing that would possibly help get a ride or suggestions of club meets you could attend.Furyblade_Lee said:
Sam, there are very few places in the UK where you can legally get even a quick road car much above 130mph.
There are few places in the UK where you can legally get a quick road car above 70. Only the Isle of Man, as far as I'm aware?If you never exceed the speed limit, I can certainly understand that the gearing limitations of BECs wouldn't bother you as much, though.
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