Ariel Atom and Caterfields
Discussion
Hi all
Thought I would ask on this forum rather than getting silly repsonses on the general forum. Hope nobody minds...
I used to own a Westfield (Cosworth engined) but got rid of it when our son was born. I bought a 911 Turbo soon after to fulfil my urge albeit with 4 seats and a roof but now I have the itch to have a proper 'toy' again. My questions are as follows:
Putting bias and loyalty aside, what would be a good choice of 'toy?' I have 2 or 3 choices... Atom or Westfield/Caterham? As I have said, I have already had a Westy and loved it, but I have always wanted the Atom since seing one for the first time.
If we ignore the 'badge' or prestige, I see you can get a high spec Westy for a very good price: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3213404.htm whereas the Caterham values are higher for those of a similar spec. As we get towards top-end Caterhams, R500s for instance, we start getting close to Atom territory in terms of price and if I am going to spend north of 30 grand, it would be the Atom everytime.
So, do I spend in the region of ten grand (ish!) for a Westfield (I am not ruling out other Lotus Seven replicas, so if any suggestions, please do bring them to the table) or do I break the bank and just take the plunge on an Atom?
If I went for the cheaper option, I am verging towards the Westfield Hayabusa (would need to research before going to see one). In the case of the Atom, though I know ANY Atom would be quick, I don't think I could drive a lesser powered one knowing that there is a 300 model available. These Atom 300s hover around the 35K mark, a lot of money for a toy (a lot of money for me anyway!)
So, does anyone have experiences of both cars, say a WF Busa and an Atom 300? What about the ownership experience and driving thrills/handling/speed etc? I don't think the car would be for on track - never done a rackday in my life, so road use only if this helps inform a decision.
Finally, at double the price, is the Atom double the car?
Thanks
Thought I would ask on this forum rather than getting silly repsonses on the general forum. Hope nobody minds...
I used to own a Westfield (Cosworth engined) but got rid of it when our son was born. I bought a 911 Turbo soon after to fulfil my urge albeit with 4 seats and a roof but now I have the itch to have a proper 'toy' again. My questions are as follows:
Putting bias and loyalty aside, what would be a good choice of 'toy?' I have 2 or 3 choices... Atom or Westfield/Caterham? As I have said, I have already had a Westy and loved it, but I have always wanted the Atom since seing one for the first time.
If we ignore the 'badge' or prestige, I see you can get a high spec Westy for a very good price: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3213404.htm whereas the Caterham values are higher for those of a similar spec. As we get towards top-end Caterhams, R500s for instance, we start getting close to Atom territory in terms of price and if I am going to spend north of 30 grand, it would be the Atom everytime.
So, do I spend in the region of ten grand (ish!) for a Westfield (I am not ruling out other Lotus Seven replicas, so if any suggestions, please do bring them to the table) or do I break the bank and just take the plunge on an Atom?
If I went for the cheaper option, I am verging towards the Westfield Hayabusa (would need to research before going to see one). In the case of the Atom, though I know ANY Atom would be quick, I don't think I could drive a lesser powered one knowing that there is a 300 model available. These Atom 300s hover around the 35K mark, a lot of money for a toy (a lot of money for me anyway!)
So, does anyone have experiences of both cars, say a WF Busa and an Atom 300? What about the ownership experience and driving thrills/handling/speed etc? I don't think the car would be for on track - never done a rackday in my life, so road use only if this helps inform a decision.
Finally, at double the price, is the Atom double the car?
Thanks
Edited by NumberoftheBeast on Tuesday 19th June 11:58
I'm sure someone will shortly mention Stuart Mills (of MEV fame) as a possible atom alternative - have you seen this build of the MEV atom Rocket? http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f... - it shows exactly what can happen when frame of mind collides with depth of wallet!
May I suggest a different strategy? I really think that if you are considering buying an extreme car for the road, that maybe it would be a good idea to buy something like this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3911086.htm
(Only chosen for being the first lightweight in the trackday section at less than £5k)
Then do a few track days - there really is nothing like the experience and buzz. You won't have a lot at stake.
Then make some choices - a low price car can give a LOT of fun on the track; so much so, that you may re-think how and what you drive on the road.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3911086.htm
(Only chosen for being the first lightweight in the trackday section at less than £5k)
Then do a few track days - there really is nothing like the experience and buzz. You won't have a lot at stake.
Then make some choices - a low price car can give a LOT of fun on the track; so much so, that you may re-think how and what you drive on the road.
Paul Drawmer said:
May I suggest a different strategy? I really think that if you are considering buying an extreme car for the road, that maybe it would be a good idea to buy something like this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3911086.htm
(Only chosen for being the first lightweight in the trackday section at less than £5k)
Then do a few track days - there really is nothing like the experience and buzz. You won't have a lot at stake.
Then make some choices - a low price car can give a LOT of fun on the track; so much so, that you may re-think how and what you drive on the road.
Thanks for that. Though I am not fond of the car in the link, I do see where you are coming from - get a cheap one and just get out there.http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3911086.htm
(Only chosen for being the first lightweight in the trackday section at less than £5k)
Then do a few track days - there really is nothing like the experience and buzz. You won't have a lot at stake.
Then make some choices - a low price car can give a LOT of fun on the track; so much so, that you may re-think how and what you drive on the road.
I have thought of the idea, just getting a cheap old car (MX5/Clio 172/saxo) and just thrashing it at a track but I want something a bit special.
On top of the Porker, I also have a Clio RS200 and I am sure that would do the trackdays well, but it is something that I am not thinking of at the moment. I want it mainly for road use and to take my son out in!
Hi Numberofthebeast,
The Rocket in the link is my car. I seem to have been in a simular position to yourself although this is my 1st build. Being a bit biased toward the Rocket and MEVAbusa they are great alternatives with good potential to make your own, which is why I went this route - just a personal thing. My Rocket is currently running at just over 550BHP/ton and has another dyno session next week for, let's say non IVA spec'ed running with a de-cat pipe so may get a little closer towards the 600BHP/ton. I am also in the process of building a MEVAbusa to a simular spec and standard (not sure if the one mentioned in the previous post is meant to be it) with a Rotrex supercharger. If you wish to, take alook at the MEV forum for some builds and options.
Hope this is of help in your decisions
The Rocket in the link is my car. I seem to have been in a simular position to yourself although this is my 1st build. Being a bit biased toward the Rocket and MEVAbusa they are great alternatives with good potential to make your own, which is why I went this route - just a personal thing. My Rocket is currently running at just over 550BHP/ton and has another dyno session next week for, let's say non IVA spec'ed running with a de-cat pipe so may get a little closer towards the 600BHP/ton. I am also in the process of building a MEVAbusa to a simular spec and standard (not sure if the one mentioned in the previous post is meant to be it) with a Rotrex supercharger. If you wish to, take alook at the MEV forum for some builds and options.
Hope this is of help in your decisions
NumberoftheBeast said:
Hi all
... I see you can get a high spec Westy for a very good price: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3213404.htm whereas the Caterham values are higher for those of a similar spec.
From what i have heard, you need to inspect this car very carfully prior to agreeing to purchase.... I see you can get a high spec Westy for a very good price: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3213404.htm whereas the Caterham values are higher for those of a similar spec.
Edited by NumberoftheBeast on Tuesday 19th June 11:58
That Deronda looks pretty barmy too.
It has to be pre-built though as I am dreadful at manual things. My missus was weeks away from giving birth and knocking up IKEA furniture for a nursery while I held the tools and brewed up. I am pathetic! Yeah, pre-built.
The Busa was just an example but not taking anything to chance
It has to be pre-built though as I am dreadful at manual things. My missus was weeks away from giving birth and knocking up IKEA furniture for a nursery while I held the tools and brewed up. I am pathetic! Yeah, pre-built.
The Busa was just an example but not taking anything to chance
David,
what about this as a "1/2 way spend" between a Westie and an Atom -
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3773673.htm
All the fun of an Atom, but less money and rarer, too....
(revue here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s86k4ap7IOE )
what about this as a "1/2 way spend" between a Westie and an Atom -
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3773673.htm
All the fun of an Atom, but less money and rarer, too....
(revue here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s86k4ap7IOE )
If you genuinely don't know one end of a spanner from another then you should not really be looking at "kit" cars as there is always something that needs fiddling with!
If you must, with your generous budget I'd look at a used factory built Caterham or Atom, where both cars could be serviced and repaired by the manufacturer. Should be rock solid residuals if you buy private sale in the autumn. £20k gets you a very very nice Caterham.
If you must, with your generous budget I'd look at a used factory built Caterham or Atom, where both cars could be serviced and repaired by the manufacturer. Should be rock solid residuals if you buy private sale in the autumn. £20k gets you a very very nice Caterham.
What about a Grinnall IV? Audi 1.8T 225-370bhp 0-60 sub 3.8 (spec dependent).
http://www.grinnallcars.com/scorpion-IV-sports-car...
£29k incl VAT new factory built.
EVO certainly rate it! http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/4460...
The point Lee makes about residuals is very relevant though - especially when you're throwing this kind of money around. Grinnall is well established and residuals seem good on the III
http://www.grinnallcars.com/scorpion-IV-sports-car...
£29k incl VAT new factory built.
EVO certainly rate it! http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/4460...
The point Lee makes about residuals is very relevant though - especially when you're throwing this kind of money around. Grinnall is well established and residuals seem good on the III
Edited by smash on Thursday 21st June 09:26
Cheers for all the suggestions.
I do agree with Lee in that I don't want to have to build it or even tinker with it. I know that, for some, part of the fun in kit-car ownership is the upkeep and having to fix it and maintain it but me? I would just get it serviced and maintained by the factory, irrespective of cost.
In terms of cash, re-sale and residuals have to play a huge factor. The Westfield Cossie I had a few years ago was bought and sold on for 10 grand. It was just maintenance. That's one of the massive appeals of the Ariel - I have had my eye on them for a long time and though prices are high, prices are steady.
All the models mentioned in this thread look most appealing. The only ones that put me off are the more costly ones. With all resepct, I don't want to spend 30 grand on a car "like" an Ariel Atom when, for this money, I could have the Atom. Forgive the analogy, but it's like spending 10 grand on a watch "like" a Rolex (however smart or well built it is) that isn't a Rolex.
I have talked with a few firms now and though they were all professional and helpful, I am simply left scratching my head. If I am honest, a small worry is that as some of these cars and firms are 'relatively' new, I just want to ensure that what I put my money in (say 20 grand for instance) will not be on a car that is unproven or could be ruinois, heavily depreciating or even not very good. I hate to say it, but Caterham, Ariel and so on have stood the test of time and I know where a 20 grand Caterham, for instance, leaves me. At the same time, I like being original and I like the idea of something unique so I think I just need to get out there and drive some of these cars before making any decisions.
I do agree with Lee in that I don't want to have to build it or even tinker with it. I know that, for some, part of the fun in kit-car ownership is the upkeep and having to fix it and maintain it but me? I would just get it serviced and maintained by the factory, irrespective of cost.
In terms of cash, re-sale and residuals have to play a huge factor. The Westfield Cossie I had a few years ago was bought and sold on for 10 grand. It was just maintenance. That's one of the massive appeals of the Ariel - I have had my eye on them for a long time and though prices are high, prices are steady.
All the models mentioned in this thread look most appealing. The only ones that put me off are the more costly ones. With all resepct, I don't want to spend 30 grand on a car "like" an Ariel Atom when, for this money, I could have the Atom. Forgive the analogy, but it's like spending 10 grand on a watch "like" a Rolex (however smart or well built it is) that isn't a Rolex.
I have talked with a few firms now and though they were all professional and helpful, I am simply left scratching my head. If I am honest, a small worry is that as some of these cars and firms are 'relatively' new, I just want to ensure that what I put my money in (say 20 grand for instance) will not be on a car that is unproven or could be ruinois, heavily depreciating or even not very good. I hate to say it, but Caterham, Ariel and so on have stood the test of time and I know where a 20 grand Caterham, for instance, leaves me. At the same time, I like being original and I like the idea of something unique so I think I just need to get out there and drive some of these cars before making any decisions.
Just threw the Grinnall in as an oddball - to be fair it's trying to be a 4 wheel Scorpion, not an Atom (which is significantly younger than the original Scorpion) but totally understand. In all honesty residuals for a Grinnall IV are unknown cos it's rarer than a sub £10k Atom(!) so it would be a risk from that viewpoint alone.
Anyway, I think your decision is made - it's between Caterham or Atom but as you've already had a Caterham ("Never have the same car twice" my moto!) it has to be an Atom! Have you driven/been in one?
Anyway, I think your decision is made - it's between Caterham or Atom but as you've already had a Caterham ("Never have the same car twice" my moto!) it has to be an Atom! Have you driven/been in one?
Edited by smash on Thursday 21st June 11:01
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