Kit Car purchase help and advise + newbie questions
Discussion
Hi All,
I have decided that I would like to start doing track days, but don't fancy the costs of taking my daily beemer on the track, and so am strongly contemplating buying an already built Kit Car.
The car would be used for a combination of weekend driving and track days, and I would want something that is pretty quick. I know 0-60 isn't everything but I would definately want something that could do it in well under 4-5 seconds . (I dont know how realistic this is?). I dont mind if its a CEC or BEC engine, though a BEC with sequential gearbox sounds like fun (as long as I can reverse it)
With this in mind, what would be this best kit cars available for a budget of between £4-6K, and what spec engine would I need for it to be pretty quick? I have seen a few cars about at the minute for sale but dont really know which model/engine combo's would be best, or indeed how good the performance and handling on any of these would actually be - heres a few that Ive seen at the minute:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MK-INDY-2003-FIREBLADE-Y...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MEV-EXOCET-KIT-CAR-1800-...
and this one which I believe used to belong to an PH member by the name of "Smash":
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Also can anyone chime in on running costs of kit cars when used on track days (in particular tyre and break costs and life expectancy or said consumables) - I know the insurance costs will be very low and petrol I dont really care about that much.
Sorry for all the questions, I just want to be well informed before rushing in and buying the first thing that I see (which I have very nearly already done!)
Thanks,
I have decided that I would like to start doing track days, but don't fancy the costs of taking my daily beemer on the track, and so am strongly contemplating buying an already built Kit Car.
The car would be used for a combination of weekend driving and track days, and I would want something that is pretty quick. I know 0-60 isn't everything but I would definately want something that could do it in well under 4-5 seconds . (I dont know how realistic this is?). I dont mind if its a CEC or BEC engine, though a BEC with sequential gearbox sounds like fun (as long as I can reverse it)
With this in mind, what would be this best kit cars available for a budget of between £4-6K, and what spec engine would I need for it to be pretty quick? I have seen a few cars about at the minute for sale but dont really know which model/engine combo's would be best, or indeed how good the performance and handling on any of these would actually be - heres a few that Ive seen at the minute:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MK-INDY-2003-FIREBLADE-Y...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MEV-EXOCET-KIT-CAR-1800-...
and this one which I believe used to belong to an PH member by the name of "Smash":
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Also can anyone chime in on running costs of kit cars when used on track days (in particular tyre and break costs and life expectancy or said consumables) - I know the insurance costs will be very low and petrol I dont really care about that much.
Sorry for all the questions, I just want to be well informed before rushing in and buying the first thing that I see (which I have very nearly already done!)
Thanks,
Top of my list to look for would be Caterham, Westfield, Striker, Fury, Pheonix, Riot.
Next would be MK, MNR, Mac#1.
Bottom of the pile would be Robin Hoods (although the new Zero isn't bad)
If you go for a BEC then the newer 1lt engines are good along with the bigger stuff like BUSA's. They are a different experience though, so try to get a ride in one. A bit of blagging at a track day should secure a few pasenger laps.
Do you realy need reverse? I've been on the road for 5 years (inc Euro tours) and don't miss it; You just have to think before you park.
Car engine wise, Zetec, Duratec, Mazda MX5, Vaux' red-top, etc are good. Older stuff like cross-flows and Pintos are OK but not as good and heavier. Avoid v8 for a track car due to weight.
On my FuryR1,
Brakes pads last me a couple of years. A BEC is light and doesn't take much stopping and I've never had any fade... despite trying, even nailing it down the Stelvio.
Tyres (Toyor888)last me a year-ish. Thats 5000miles including a trip to the Alps and 1/2dozen track days.
Other maintainance is little more than oil and fiters once a year.
Next would be MK, MNR, Mac#1.
Bottom of the pile would be Robin Hoods (although the new Zero isn't bad)
If you go for a BEC then the newer 1lt engines are good along with the bigger stuff like BUSA's. They are a different experience though, so try to get a ride in one. A bit of blagging at a track day should secure a few pasenger laps.
Do you realy need reverse? I've been on the road for 5 years (inc Euro tours) and don't miss it; You just have to think before you park.
Car engine wise, Zetec, Duratec, Mazda MX5, Vaux' red-top, etc are good. Older stuff like cross-flows and Pintos are OK but not as good and heavier. Avoid v8 for a track car due to weight.
On my FuryR1,
Brakes pads last me a couple of years. A BEC is light and doesn't take much stopping and I've never had any fade... despite trying, even nailing it down the Stelvio.
Tyres (Toyor888)last me a year-ish. Thats 5000miles including a trip to the Alps and 1/2dozen track days.
Other maintainance is little more than oil and fiters once a year.
Edited by AdiT on Thursday 22 November 11:15
TheLastPost said:
I'd agree with everything AdiT says, except to note that the Crossflow isn't heavier: it's actually quite a light engine - lighter than all the modern engines he listed!
True, but they're smelly, leaky, old technology.K-series are fine as long as you let them warm up slowly. Fit the steel 'head dowels and the bypass 'stat and they're even better.
I drive an e92m3 plus other road cars. I tracked my m3 once and immediately started looking for a lightweight track car. It ate a set of tyres and brakes in a day.
So, I looked at everything. I ended up buying a ready built mk Indy r with an r1 engine.
It's superb on track. It's quick, handles superbly, you have fun at all speeds not just at triple numbers and you're right in the middle of the experience not disconnected shut away in a cockpit.
Cheap as chips too. Hardly uses fuel, tyres last and last and 2 seasons in and my brakes are fine.
It's also tiny so easy to store (below stored sideways on dollys at the back of one of my garage bays) and easy to trailer. Just make sure a BEC is dry dumped or baffled, I didn't and it cost me an engine. Now it is its rock solid.
So, I looked at everything. I ended up buying a ready built mk Indy r with an r1 engine.
It's superb on track. It's quick, handles superbly, you have fun at all speeds not just at triple numbers and you're right in the middle of the experience not disconnected shut away in a cockpit.
Cheap as chips too. Hardly uses fuel, tyres last and last and 2 seasons in and my brakes are fine.
It's also tiny so easy to store (below stored sideways on dollys at the back of one of my garage bays) and easy to trailer. Just make sure a BEC is dry dumped or baffled, I didn't and it cost me an engine. Now it is its rock solid.
Thank you everyone for all of your responses! they have been really helpful!
I think I will definately cross of a Robin Hood, sinse I want something thats a bit more of a track day weapon, and am leaning more towards an MK Indy.
One question re the Indy, I am quite tall at 6' 2 and fairly well built/broad shouldered - 16st do you guys think I will have any issues fitting into an Indy?
It's amazing to hear that the tyres and brakes will last so long even when used for track days :-) Can't wait to find one now.
Also sinse I am not mechanically minded in anyway, can any one recomend a garage or mechanic who could do various bits of work for me on a kit car in the south east (Buckinghamshire / herfordshire borders)
Thanks again
I think I will definately cross of a Robin Hood, sinse I want something thats a bit more of a track day weapon, and am leaning more towards an MK Indy.
One question re the Indy, I am quite tall at 6' 2 and fairly well built/broad shouldered - 16st do you guys think I will have any issues fitting into an Indy?
It's amazing to hear that the tyres and brakes will last so long even when used for track days :-) Can't wait to find one now.
Also sinse I am not mechanically minded in anyway, can any one recomend a garage or mechanic who could do various bits of work for me on a kit car in the south east (Buckinghamshire / herfordshire borders)
Thanks again
you'll fit in an indy width ways no prob, they are a fairly generous in the cockpit and height - if you have a full indy cage you should be well under that too.....cant commnet on legroom. a pal has one and he's built like a front row forward.....but is only 5'8 - hence not being able to comment on the length.
Just measured mine and its 170cms wide at the rear arches and 330cms long front to back. The seat bays are 40cms wide. I have s1 seats in mine and have had a mate in who is 6'4" and 18 stone. Admittedly it was tight but at 6'1" you'll be fine. I'm 5'11" and there is loads of room. If you find the steering wheel is awkward just fit a smaller one, I reduced mine by a couple of inches just to give me more hand room at the bottom of the (turning) wheel. By the way, this was on the road so no helmets. He wouldn't have got a helmet on under the cage. I probably have 3 inches space above my helmet though when I'm in so you would be fine. Oh, I'm on cushions on my seat (velcroed on) which are 1inch thick too so if you've got a spongy arse and wanted more headroom, you could do without.
My s1 seats are a bit big for me, the guy who built it was a bit keener on the pies, but once I'm harnessed in its very comfy and secure. My seats slide and I don't have mine all the way back btw.
Any other questions just ask. Photos, measurements etc no problem. Happy to chat if you want my number too. Just pm me.
Here he is...
Cadwell grabbing a little air...
At home...
My s1 seats are a bit big for me, the guy who built it was a bit keener on the pies, but once I'm harnessed in its very comfy and secure. My seats slide and I don't have mine all the way back btw.
Any other questions just ask. Photos, measurements etc no problem. Happy to chat if you want my number too. Just pm me.
Here he is...
Cadwell grabbing a little air...
At home...
Edited by _Leg_ on Saturday 24th November 07:50
P2ccolo said:
It's amazing to hear that the tyres and brakes will last so long even when used for track days :-) Can't wait to find one now.
Thanks again
Thats all down to the low weight.Thanks again
When a car is 1/2 the weight, it takes half the force to stop and turn. I'm running (like most BEC's) small unvented discs; You just don't generate enough heat to require more... and even more weight saved. The low weight and CoG means less body roll so the wear is spread across the tyre more evenly and so you don't scrub the shoulders as much as in a tin-top... and you can run 13" wheels so more weight saved.
The down side is that adding a passenger does reduce the power/weight ratio by quite a bit... but I've yet to have a passenger who thought mine was slow. This vid is with a 15st-ish passenger... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSURuxGoaX0
Personally if your looking for track day fun in a kit then I also would recommend BEC, built the one below (also finding a bit of air) 12 years ago, stands me around £6k plus my time.
Running costs ? Its on its 2nd engine, gearbox went on first one after 7 years of abuse other than that just general maintenance, have spent far more on track day and sprint fee's than running the car.
At 6'2 your gonna fit in an indy ok.
Running costs ? Its on its 2nd engine, gearbox went on first one after 7 years of abuse other than that just general maintenance, have spent far more on track day and sprint fee's than running the car.
At 6'2 your gonna fit in an indy ok.
rdodger said:
This one, if you can afford it.If I did not have a part built one in my garage I would be tempted. You would need to check on the need for a dry sump on this engine though, I am using an R1 engine which are fine with just a baffle plate.
It should be wide enough in the seat, though you may find your shoulder overhangs the side of the car like mine. Height wise, do not forget this is a kit car, just change the pedal and steering position to suit you. The floorpan from rear to front bulkhead is 131cm, width at hip position is about 40cm.
Hi guys, Still looking for a kit car, really after an MK Indy with full cage, but came across this stuart taylor kit car on ebay today which looks really nice, but is it any good?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/stuart-taylor-motorsport...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/stuart-taylor-motorsport...
P2ccolo said:
Hi guys, Still looking for a kit car, really after an MK Indy with full cage, but came across this stuart taylor kit car on ebay today which looks really nice, but is it any good?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/stuart-taylor-motorsport...
I can't beleive he keeps it in the lounge! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/stuart-taylor-motorsport...
So are these stuart taylors any good? Was trying to do some research on the engine, seems it might be a bit slow? Perhaps someone can enlighten me with the facts about the Honda Pan European engine? The owner recons this cars 0-60 is under 4 seconds (does this sound realistic). If there a bit slow, how much would I be looking at (ball park) to replace the engine plus all parts and labour for say an R1 engine or something a bit tastier, I would want a pretty quick setup for track.
Edited by P2ccolo on Thursday 6th December 16:35
As no one else will stick there head up above the parapet I will.
Stuart taylor cars are generally fine, depends upon the build of course but built well there a perfectly useable car, engine ? Wrong one fitted IMHO a engine swap will involve more than just the cost of the engine, prop maybe, exhaust, wiring, fueling..... It goes on.
It's a buyers market especially at this time of year, wait for the right one, there's plenty out there, don't jump in only to regret it later.
Stuart taylor cars are generally fine, depends upon the build of course but built well there a perfectly useable car, engine ? Wrong one fitted IMHO a engine swap will involve more than just the cost of the engine, prop maybe, exhaust, wiring, fueling..... It goes on.
It's a buyers market especially at this time of year, wait for the right one, there's plenty out there, don't jump in only to regret it later.
thanks for the reply! Really appreciated. So would you recommend conituing to hold out for an MK Indy, MNR or Mac1 that already has the sort of spec I have. Are the stuart taylor locosts generally not as good as the three Ive mentioned? I have decided that I have absolute max budget of £7k, but would want a decent spec BEC, track ready, fully caged, ideally with reverse gear, maybe paddle shifters (thou not sure) and that looks very nice (this is why I was so drawn to the Stuart taylor on ebay).. It's so hard waiting! I am checking the classifieds daily, I guess im just being impatient!
Stuart Taylor was once the chassis of choice I believe for locost racing so there not to be sniffed at, the others you mentioned, it's can of worms time it is 100% down to build quality IMHO rather than the badge at this level, hang in there one will come along.
Don't discount a genuine "locost" there are some very very good well built ones out there that will run rings around a poorly built manufacturers kit, yes there are some dogs, I've seen plenty of badged cars I wouldn't step in to though also.
Don't be put off by no full cage for instance, you can add one to a well built car at not to silly money, you could end up with a full strip and rebuild on your hands by buying one because the full cage fitted swung it.
Buyer is king, you will find the right car.
Don't discount a genuine "locost" there are some very very good well built ones out there that will run rings around a poorly built manufacturers kit, yes there are some dogs, I've seen plenty of badged cars I wouldn't step in to though also.
Don't be put off by no full cage for instance, you can add one to a well built car at not to silly money, you could end up with a full strip and rebuild on your hands by buying one because the full cage fitted swung it.
Buyer is king, you will find the right car.
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