Kit Car question(s)
Discussion
After accidentally bumping into the millionth re-run of Top Gear (on Dave obviously), I noticed something very exciting - the Lancia Stratos kit car. I've done some googling and it turns out that the kit car can be bought for around £11 grand pre tax - while not cheap, certainly cheaper than buying the original!
Anyhow, I'm wondering how hard is it exactly to build a kit car yourself, having no previous experience and pretty basic car knowledge.
Does the kit come with everything you need and instructions on how to put the darn thing together?
For reference, the kit car I'm talking about can be found here http://www.hawkcars.co.uk/hf3000/index.html
Thanks for any help
Anyhow, I'm wondering how hard is it exactly to build a kit car yourself, having no previous experience and pretty basic car knowledge.
Does the kit come with everything you need and instructions on how to put the darn thing together?
For reference, the kit car I'm talking about can be found here http://www.hawkcars.co.uk/hf3000/index.html
Thanks for any help
I had an in depth chat with Gerry (Hawk)ridge a couple of years back, and realistically unless you have £30k nowdays you will not be able to do a Hawk justice. And if you are not going to do it justice, then you may as well build one of the others like the Lister Bell, still a great car but does not require as many obscure, rare, unobtainable parts to complete. £11k gets you a starter kit, plus VAT of course!! Proper wheels and tyres will cost you £2 - £3K alone....
But for me the Hawk 3000 is the Daddy, end of. It just costs way more than £11k. Don'tr believe all the crap which emerges from Clarksons mouth.
But for me the Hawk 3000 is the Daddy, end of. It just costs way more than £11k. Don'tr believe all the crap which emerges from Clarksons mouth.
We've got several Stratos replica owners on this forum who will doubtless be along shortly to give more detailed answers, but in brief:
If you want to get close to an actual build cost:
Lest you think that's all too negative, though, the good news is that a well finished and well maintained example will hold its value very well, and would probably recoup a high percentage of what you spent on it, when you come to sell. There's a thread somewhere on this forum about Stratos' for sale, but prices in the mid-£20'sK bracket seem to be fairly typical for good examples.
AnotherFUser said:
I'm wondering how hard is it exactly to build a kit car yourself, having no previous experience and pretty basic car knowledge.
The Stratos is not known as one of the easier kits to build. It would be a very brave (or very naive) choice of first build, if your knowledge of mechanicals and fibreglass bodywork is minimal.AnotherFUser said:
Does the kit come with everything you need and instructions on how to put the darn thing together?
No, not even slightly. The 'comprehensive' kit price is simply a pre-prepared fairy story for wannabe kit builders to show their wives/girlfriends to convince them that it's quite affordable, really, and much more sensible than throwing money away down the pub/golf course/gym. If you want to get close to an actual build cost:
- First, you need to add the cost of the additional components and whatever options you wish to choose from the manufacturer's price list here (not forgetting to include VAT).
- Then you need to add all the donor items listed in print too small to read, here. (ETA: my mistake; there is a readable PDF download here and here)
- Then you need to add the cost of refurbishing these donor parts, where necessary.
- Then you need to add the price of all the essential items that the manufacturer forgot to list anywhere. Since the donor items list is too small to read, it's difficult to be exhaustive about this, but it could run from relatively minor stuff like hard brake lines and hoses, coolant pipes/hoses, p-clips, etc., to items that will cost you several hundred pounds (tyres are a favourite for omission from manufacturers price lists, for example). (ETA: yes, they have omitted everything I mentioned... how depressingly predictable.
)
- Then you've got to budget for tools and sundries, unless you already have a fully stocked and equipped workshop.
- Then you need to budget for a professional paint job (fibreglass takes a lot of prep and is expensive to do to a high standard; budget £3.5K upwards).
- Then you need to budget for the mandatory IVA test, necessary to make the car road legal (£450 at the moment, I believe).
Lest you think that's all too negative, though, the good news is that a well finished and well maintained example will hold its value very well, and would probably recoup a high percentage of what you spent on it, when you come to sell. There's a thread somewhere on this forum about Stratos' for sale, but prices in the mid-£20'sK bracket seem to be fairly typical for good examples.
Edited by TheLastPost on Friday 8th February 19:51
Whoa! Thanks for explaining!
Jeez, yeah probably not a good idea to start with something as complex as this...
What sort of kit car would you recommend from a beginner?
EDIT:
Preferably something that includes all the parts necessary and doesn't require seemingly random components.
EDIT2:
The reason why I was looking at this particular kit car is because the Stratos simply looks amazing.
Jeez, yeah probably not a good idea to start with something as complex as this...
What sort of kit car would you recommend from a beginner?
EDIT:
Preferably something that includes all the parts necessary and doesn't require seemingly random components.
Edited by AnotherFUser on Friday 8th February 19:42
EDIT2:
The reason why I was looking at this particular kit car is because the Stratos simply looks amazing.
Edited by AnotherFUser on Friday 8th February 19:44
AnotherFUser said:
What sort of kit car would you recommend from a beginner?
A real beginner?A Caterham Seven: the big boy's airfix kit. Not cheap, compared to other 'Seven' type cars, but idiot proofed over 50+ years of continual development. Everything is supplied in a series of big boxes and a mentally subnormal (albeit well trained) chimp can put one together.
Or buy a completed kit car and learn by maintaining it (and also benefit from someone else having taken the financial loss).
Remember too a typical existing kit car is an infinate blank canvas, there is always something to could / can / need to do sometimes for just the hell of it. It's yours and unique. Do with it what you want. Thats what I do, I could show you 3 different pics of my Phoenix and apart from the rollhoop you would swear it was 3 different cars entirely.
What I am trying to say is, that if you are a total beginner consider getting yourself to the massive Stoneleigh show in May and find a car type you like. Speak to some owners and consider buying a used one. You can learn the basics of kit car ownership, modifying and rebuilding in your own time and for a lot lower cost. And the bonus is you get a car to drive immediately and build / rebuild as your confidence and skills evolve.
What I am trying to say is, that if you are a total beginner consider getting yourself to the massive Stoneleigh show in May and find a car type you like. Speak to some owners and consider buying a used one. You can learn the basics of kit car ownership, modifying and rebuilding in your own time and for a lot lower cost. And the bonus is you get a car to drive immediately and build / rebuild as your confidence and skills evolve.
Im building my first kit car its been fun but would i build another one no. Im building a exocet possible the cheapest kit to build i put a budget of about 4-4.5k finished and about 8 months to build im up to 5k and still the iva to go and other bits and be going into 1 year since i bought the donor.
It takes a lot of time, money and patience to build one and the iva is a mind feild. Get a built one drive ot for the summer then take of the road and do all the things you want to do less hassle and cheaper to.
It takes a lot of time, money and patience to build one and the iva is a mind feild. Get a built one drive ot for the summer then take of the road and do all the things you want to do less hassle and cheaper to.
The Lister Bell kit is a very much easier build than any previous Strat copies. The bodywork fits, out of the box, and the gel oat finishes are easily good enough to do you for the first few,years of the cars life. LB can do you a multi-colour gel coat finish if you like. Mechanically too, it's a very much easier prospect than hunting down long-obsolete parts and has the best geometry and engineering of any of them to date by far.
I built a CAE Corse S some years back and that was an epic excercise for a host of reasons. If I was in the market now, for me at least, it would absolutely be a Lister Bell kit. I have no connection with LB by the way, other than knowing Craig a wee bit on a personal basis from my previous involvement with the 'scene'. He once said some very nice things about the car I built. High praise indeed from a man with his skills and experience.
My own personal view on the whole replica/tribute thing is that I want my car to look like the original on which it is based, not to attempt to be a perfect replica. I also want it to incorporate as many modern ideas and improvements as is reasonable. I won't criticise others for wanting to try and achieve a perfect copy, I just don't share that goal. I have always been uncomfortable with putting original badges etc on replicas, but I'm odd, I know. My cars never had Cobra, or Powered by Ford, or Lancia, or Stratos badges on when I owned them. I did put some original features on them though, as they looked right. Things like door handles, catches etc. this is the ultimate YMMV area though, and for me, why we build kit cars - it's YOUR car. I refuse to get dragged into arguments on this topic!
Still a complex kit compared to some, and not an ideal start into the kit world perhaps, unless you are of a particularly methodical and thorough bent.
As an example, a friend of mine undertook as his first ever build a Shelsley T2. IMO that's about as brave as taking on a Hawk. Prior to this, all he had ever done on cars was the odd service item. Remarkable what an intelligent and thorough bloke can achieve.
Agree with the budgets though, kit may 'only' be £11k, but unless you budget at the very least £25k you are going to really struggle.
ETA feel I should add, this post is aimed at the OPs wish to build a Strat copy, rather than any kit. Hope it made some sense!
I built a CAE Corse S some years back and that was an epic excercise for a host of reasons. If I was in the market now, for me at least, it would absolutely be a Lister Bell kit. I have no connection with LB by the way, other than knowing Craig a wee bit on a personal basis from my previous involvement with the 'scene'. He once said some very nice things about the car I built. High praise indeed from a man with his skills and experience.
My own personal view on the whole replica/tribute thing is that I want my car to look like the original on which it is based, not to attempt to be a perfect replica. I also want it to incorporate as many modern ideas and improvements as is reasonable. I won't criticise others for wanting to try and achieve a perfect copy, I just don't share that goal. I have always been uncomfortable with putting original badges etc on replicas, but I'm odd, I know. My cars never had Cobra, or Powered by Ford, or Lancia, or Stratos badges on when I owned them. I did put some original features on them though, as they looked right. Things like door handles, catches etc. this is the ultimate YMMV area though, and for me, why we build kit cars - it's YOUR car. I refuse to get dragged into arguments on this topic!
Still a complex kit compared to some, and not an ideal start into the kit world perhaps, unless you are of a particularly methodical and thorough bent.
As an example, a friend of mine undertook as his first ever build a Shelsley T2. IMO that's about as brave as taking on a Hawk. Prior to this, all he had ever done on cars was the odd service item. Remarkable what an intelligent and thorough bloke can achieve.
Agree with the budgets though, kit may 'only' be £11k, but unless you budget at the very least £25k you are going to really struggle.
ETA feel I should add, this post is aimed at the OPs wish to build a Strat copy, rather than any kit. Hope it made some sense!
Edited by CorseChris on Sunday 10th February 19:33
If I were in your shoes, I would buy something already built and learn from there and find out what works for you.
Before I bought my ready built kit I was pretty clueless, yet after my highs and lows I would be more and confident on taking on a build now. I learned so much over two years and now pretty much hands on with the car.
Before I bought my ready built kit I was pretty clueless, yet after my highs and lows I would be more and confident on taking on a build now. I learned so much over two years and now pretty much hands on with the car.
First 2 things to do
Join a club
Go to loads of kit car shows
I would also join kit specific forum for your kit choice and Locostbuilders forum
I built an old monocoque Robin Hood
Took a while but now feel I could tackle something like a Stratos or my prefered a GT40
All the fear goes after the first build, only the funds remain as a consern
Join a club
Go to loads of kit car shows
I would also join kit specific forum for your kit choice and Locostbuilders forum
I built an old monocoque Robin Hood
Took a while but now feel I could tackle something like a Stratos or my prefered a GT40
All the fear goes after the first build, only the funds remain as a consern
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