500kg's is when the magic starts happening...?
Discussion
It's all about power to weight ratios.
I've got vehicles well under 500kg and also a bit above too.
Personally I'd say that the max power to weight ratio that's handleable without a computer taking over is around the 400bhp per tonne range.
I've had as much fun with low powered lightweight cars as I've had with heavier far more powerful ones. And indeed can confirm this Friday just gone much fun was had at Abingdon with everything from Hillman Imps through to Porsches and M3s on the circuit there. It all depends on what you call magic really, for me it was seeing an Imp on 3 wheels catching up again after passing him on the straights as we went through the chicanes. Brilliant! :-)
I've got vehicles well under 500kg and also a bit above too.
Personally I'd say that the max power to weight ratio that's handleable without a computer taking over is around the 400bhp per tonne range.
I've had as much fun with low powered lightweight cars as I've had with heavier far more powerful ones. And indeed can confirm this Friday just gone much fun was had at Abingdon with everything from Hillman Imps through to Porsches and M3s on the circuit there. It all depends on what you call magic really, for me it was seeing an Imp on 3 wheels catching up again after passing him on the straights as we went through the chicanes. Brilliant! :-)
qdos said:
Personally I'd say that the max power to weight ratio that's handleable without a computer taking over is around the 400bhp per tonne range.
Not sure I agree with that statement. It has more to do with the way the power is presented....My Phoenix has 340BHP in 620Kg nd is perfectly drivable but it has a Rotrex Supercharger and not a Turbo which makes all the difference.It's not just power to weight, it's the sheer joy of low weight for it's own sake: the virtuous circle that things can be made lighter because loads are lower and so forth and the whole 'single-minded' driving experience benefits. No ARBs, more compliant spring/ride rates, tiny central/low-mounted engine/gearbox mass and so on.
Since the OP is specifically asking about BECs - yes, I'd agree. If you want the full fun a bike engine offers, seems silly to save 50KG on the engine choice only to saddle the lot with another a minimum 100KG+ of ballast. Put another way, at 600Kg and above (ballpark) there's questionable benefit in picking a bike engine over the right car engine - which can be made to make more power, or a broader spread lower down the rev range making it very tractable on-raod, which the heavier gearbox will accept long term and so on.
My Fury R1 is 427kG fully fuelled at last geo (422 on the SVA) and an utter delight in terms of wieldiness. My best upgrade in three years of owner ship over last Sept - April has been to swap back to a motorbike battery removing an excess 9kg there - and dropping 25Kg off me. I'd love to say it's 500Kgs for the car with me in it, but we're within 1.3%
Anyway that exercise amounts to half an adult passenger, and if I add it back as temporary ballast it's noticable
On teh power front - well there are faster cars out there but I don't remotely care - that's not entirely what such things are about.
Since the OP is specifically asking about BECs - yes, I'd agree. If you want the full fun a bike engine offers, seems silly to save 50KG on the engine choice only to saddle the lot with another a minimum 100KG+ of ballast. Put another way, at 600Kg and above (ballpark) there's questionable benefit in picking a bike engine over the right car engine - which can be made to make more power, or a broader spread lower down the rev range making it very tractable on-raod, which the heavier gearbox will accept long term and so on.
My Fury R1 is 427kG fully fuelled at last geo (422 on the SVA) and an utter delight in terms of wieldiness. My best upgrade in three years of owner ship over last Sept - April has been to swap back to a motorbike battery removing an excess 9kg there - and dropping 25Kg off me. I'd love to say it's 500Kgs for the car with me in it, but we're within 1.3%
Anyway that exercise amounts to half an adult passenger, and if I add it back as temporary ballast it's noticable
On teh power front - well there are faster cars out there but I don't remotely care - that's not entirely what such things are about.
It's not purely BEC's - it's just the chap who said that had a BEC, that's all.
He told me he had owned an Elise S1, but it wasn't until he got 'down to 500' (with his R1 BEC) that the magic started...
I too have owned an S1 and a BEC (ZX10R) weighing 523Kg's, but in another recent thread saw a comment about the Seven design's aerodynamics being the biggest factor in deceleration, so this thread is somewhat half way to confirm something I became unsure about
However, I am looking to get back into a kit car and like the look of the Fury, but its weight, albeit only in the 600+kg area for a car engined one, is slightly concerning me
He told me he had owned an Elise S1, but it wasn't until he got 'down to 500' (with his R1 BEC) that the magic started...
I too have owned an S1 and a BEC (ZX10R) weighing 523Kg's, but in another recent thread saw a comment about the Seven design's aerodynamics being the biggest factor in deceleration, so this thread is somewhat half way to confirm something I became unsure about
However, I am looking to get back into a kit car and like the look of the Fury, but its weight, albeit only in the 600+kg area for a car engined one, is slightly concerning me
rdodger said:
What car is that? More pics?
It's an Autotune Gemini - at least that's how it started; see www.farcester.comTim.C said:
It's an Autotune Gemini - at least that's how it started; see www.farcester.com
Ah of course! Have I seen some build pics on Locost?rdodger said:
Just had a look at your build. It looks fantastic, great attention to detail. It will be a shame to race it.
That's very kind - thank you. I have to say that there have been several occasions where I've said "Ah, it's only a racecar" - the bodywork mould lines are a good example. Otherwise I'd never finish it.I'm giving serious thought to IVA. I've considered it with hose runs, brake lines etc.
Not as light as some others on here but here's mine.
It's a factory built lightweight version, panels very thin and front end kevlar (very high tech in 1985 when it was made). Originally owned by John Eales (Rover engine builder) who used it as a sprint car for it's first 10 years before it was road registered.
Currently sporting a 5.0v8 and recently weighed in at 820kgs,
Martyn....
P.S. I do find it amusing when mainstream manufacturers announce a lightweight version of their car and you read through all their advertising and can't find the overall weight listed.
Restoration story on www.marcosmantula.com
It's a factory built lightweight version, panels very thin and front end kevlar (very high tech in 1985 when it was made). Originally owned by John Eales (Rover engine builder) who used it as a sprint car for it's first 10 years before it was road registered.
Currently sporting a 5.0v8 and recently weighed in at 820kgs,
Martyn....
P.S. I do find it amusing when mainstream manufacturers announce a lightweight version of their car and you read through all their advertising and can't find the overall weight listed.
Restoration story on www.marcosmantula.com
Edited by Martyn-123 on Thursday 27th June 18:53
Tim.C said:
That's very kind - thank you. I have to say that there have been several occasions where I've said "Ah, it's only a racecar" - the bodywork mould lines are a good example. Otherwise I'd never finish it.
I'm giving serious thought to IVA. I've considered it with hose runs, brake lines etc.
I know what you mean. I have just completed my build. IVA on Monday. I started out building it for trackdays mainly but always with the intention of IVA. After I got the chassis and ally panels powder coated it all changed and I drove myself mad getting things "just so". Painting things only I will ever see, getting brake pipe clips I liked the look of. Who ever new you could spend days choosing the right kind of machine screw head for fixing panels and trim?I'm giving serious thought to IVA. I've considered it with hose runs, brake lines etc.
I think I have gone mad!
An Autotune Gemini aaaaah that was my first kit car, I built it in the 90,s using a Dolomite sprint lump so no lightweight but I loved the car till I had an accident in it that was my fault.
At that time there was an Gemini being raced successfully with a Rover 3.5 V8 and owner driver was a Bill Batty I recall and what a strange coincidence my daughter invited me down to Brands a couple of weeks ago to take me round in her class winning Boxster and what a surprise to see Mr Batty,s Gemini there now owned by a couple of older guys who just use it for fun. I had been taken for a few laps round Castle Combe in the late 90,s in it and can vouch for its wicked turn of speed.
Your car will no doubt be brilliant fun.
At that time there was an Gemini being raced successfully with a Rover 3.5 V8 and owner driver was a Bill Batty I recall and what a strange coincidence my daughter invited me down to Brands a couple of weeks ago to take me round in her class winning Boxster and what a surprise to see Mr Batty,s Gemini there now owned by a couple of older guys who just use it for fun. I had been taken for a few laps round Castle Combe in the late 90,s in it and can vouch for its wicked turn of speed.
Your car will no doubt be brilliant fun.
We're a bit O/T here but what the hell.
Richard, Anthony and Carolyn @ Autotune have been quite good at giving me an idea of the Gemini's competition history so I know all about Bill's V8 and Clive's V6 cars -
Quite a lot of my chassis is made from 18swg rather than 16swg so less than 500kgs is definately 'on'. How close it gets to the 440kgs that would get me to minimum weight remains to be seen.
Richard, Anthony and Carolyn @ Autotune have been quite good at giving me an idea of the Gemini's competition history so I know all about Bill's V8 and Clive's V6 cars -
Quite a lot of my chassis is made from 18swg rather than 16swg so less than 500kgs is definately 'on'. How close it gets to the 440kgs that would get me to minimum weight remains to be seen.
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