IVA major components
Discussion
Hi,
Can anyone help me with the 2 major components principle when doing an IVA on a kit conversion (356 replica in this case).
The rules state..."If a new monocoque bodyshell or chassis from a specialistkit manufacturer (or an altered chassis or body shell from an existing vehicle) is used with two original majorcomponents from the donor vehicle, a replacement registration number will be issued based on the age of the donor vehicle."
I am sourcing a donor, but want to pick the right one that gives me the best chance of securing an age related plate rather than Q plate, this is pure vanity I know, but I need to have the ability to transfer to a personalised plate and run black plates.
My challenge is that I want to use an IRS rear end which is only available on later 1302/1303 beetles, these models have a mac strut front end so when converting the front frame head to a ball joint I would lose the ability to claim steering, suspension or axles as my major component. Leaving me with only engine and gearbox to play with.
The chances are that the gearbox is original or at least impossible to know that it wasn't but the likely hood is that the engine has been replaced over the years. If the engine is the stock size and the engine number matches the V5, is that OK or are they likely to want some cross checking with engine numbers and VW records to prove its the original engine.
Also if I did get the IVA with the engine and box as my 2 major components and then subsequently the engine blew up on me and I replaced it could I get hauled in when I notify the DVLA of the engine number change as I would no longer comply.
I could look at fitting an IRS rear end to a ball joint car, but I suspect I would lose gearbox, axles and suspension components that way round too. Leaving me only steering and engine as the 2 major components (and fitting dropped spindles may well lose the steering points)
Ideally I would use a 68 semi auto beetle as a donor as they have both ball joint front end and IRS rear, but unfortunately they are a bit like hens teeth!
Any advice?
Can anyone help me with the 2 major components principle when doing an IVA on a kit conversion (356 replica in this case).
The rules state..."If a new monocoque bodyshell or chassis from a specialistkit manufacturer (or an altered chassis or body shell from an existing vehicle) is used with two original majorcomponents from the donor vehicle, a replacement registration number will be issued based on the age of the donor vehicle."
I am sourcing a donor, but want to pick the right one that gives me the best chance of securing an age related plate rather than Q plate, this is pure vanity I know, but I need to have the ability to transfer to a personalised plate and run black plates.
My challenge is that I want to use an IRS rear end which is only available on later 1302/1303 beetles, these models have a mac strut front end so when converting the front frame head to a ball joint I would lose the ability to claim steering, suspension or axles as my major component. Leaving me with only engine and gearbox to play with.
The chances are that the gearbox is original or at least impossible to know that it wasn't but the likely hood is that the engine has been replaced over the years. If the engine is the stock size and the engine number matches the V5, is that OK or are they likely to want some cross checking with engine numbers and VW records to prove its the original engine.
Also if I did get the IVA with the engine and box as my 2 major components and then subsequently the engine blew up on me and I replaced it could I get hauled in when I notify the DVLA of the engine number change as I would no longer comply.
I could look at fitting an IRS rear end to a ball joint car, but I suspect I would lose gearbox, axles and suspension components that way round too. Leaving me only steering and engine as the 2 major components (and fitting dropped spindles may well lose the steering points)
Ideally I would use a 68 semi auto beetle as a donor as they have both ball joint front end and IRS rear, but unfortunately they are a bit like hens teeth!
Any advice?
thescamper said:
Not convinced that even if they issue an age related plate you can replace it with a personal plate.
Good point, I know the Q plates are non transferable, I have also previously been issued with pre reg plates (importing a 50's car) which states on the V5 its non transferable, but I have not heard whether the age related plate they issue you with is non transferable if its prefix/suffix type.Don't really see the reason why they issue you with another plate with the same age on anyway, seems like admin gone mad.
richardab1967 said:
thescamper said:
Not convinced that even if they issue an age related plate you can replace it with a personal plate.
Good point, I know the Q plates are non transferable, I have also previously been issued with pre reg plates (importing a 50's car) which states on the V5 its non transferable, but I have not heard whether the age related plate they issue you with is non transferable if its prefix/suffix type.Don't really see the reason why they issue you with another plate with the same age on anyway, seems like admin gone mad.
If you get a Q, you are stuck with it.
Does your 356 project even need IVA? How modified is the Beetle floorpan? If it does need IVA and you are determined to get an age related plate, I would be tempted to build it from a single donor, get it through IVA and then change whichever end you need to. With parts that have been replaced on the donor, they count as original as long as you can prove that they were fitted to the donor - so take lots of pictures and make sure that the engine number matches what is on the V5.
Are the DVLA inspectors likely to know the suspensions in intimate detail?
Your donor could have had it'd suspension changed by someone prior to yourself?
Only speculation of course!
I pretty sure you can only display black/silver plates if the vehicle was built before Jan 1973 (Someone correct me if I'm wrong), and if you put it through IVA they will give it a 2013 first registration date. Strictly speaking it is the BUILD date that counts, but what would that be? I think if plod pulled a kit car with black/silver plates and 2013 first registration date it would be unlikely you would win in court.
Your donor could have had it'd suspension changed by someone prior to yourself?
Only speculation of course!
I pretty sure you can only display black/silver plates if the vehicle was built before Jan 1973 (Someone correct me if I'm wrong), and if you put it through IVA they will give it a 2013 first registration date. Strictly speaking it is the BUILD date that counts, but what would that be? I think if plod pulled a kit car with black/silver plates and 2013 first registration date it would be unlikely you would win in court.
Are the DVLA inspectors likely to know the suspensions in intimate detail?
Your donor could have had it'd suspension changed by someone prior to yourself?
Only speculation of course!
I pretty sure you can only display black/silver plates if the vehicle was built before Jan 1973 (Someone correct me if I'm wrong), and if you put it through IVA they will give it a 2013 first registration date. Strictly speaking it is the BUILD date that counts, but what would that be? I think if plod pulled a kit car with black/silver plates and 2013 first registration date it would be unlikely you would win in court.
Your donor could have had it'd suspension changed by someone prior to yourself?
Only speculation of course!
I pretty sure you can only display black/silver plates if the vehicle was built before Jan 1973 (Someone correct me if I'm wrong), and if you put it through IVA they will give it a 2013 first registration date. Strictly speaking it is the BUILD date that counts, but what would that be? I think if plod pulled a kit car with black/silver plates and 2013 first registration date it would be unlikely you would win in court.
The VOSA testers who perform IVA are very clued up, DVLA less so
VOSA what to make sure its safe
DVLA want to be sure its what you say it is
You can get an age related with very few Componants we describe front hubs as one axle, steering as the column and or steering rack, back axle could just be Diff shafts and hubs and you don't need all of them, engine and box count for most of the points
I don't think an age related will be an issue
VOSA what to make sure its safe
DVLA want to be sure its what you say it is
You can get an age related with very few Componants we describe front hubs as one axle, steering as the column and or steering rack, back axle could just be Diff shafts and hubs and you don't need all of them, engine and box count for most of the points
I don't think an age related will be an issue
Frankthered said:
Does your 356 project even need IVA? How modified is the Beetle floorpan? If it does need IVA and you are determined to get an age related plate, I would be tempted to build it from a single donor, get it through IVA and then change whichever end you need to. With parts that have been replaced on the donor, they count as original as long as you can prove that they were fitted to the donor - so take lots of pictures and make sure that the engine number matches what is on the V5.
Definitely needs an iva, the chassis is shortened. Interesting so I could fit a newer engine to the donor before I even start, take pics, change number on v5 with dvla, then 2 yrs later when I do iva I can call that the original engine? Sounds too easy!
Fastpedeller said:
Are the DVLA inspectors likely to know the suspensions in intimate detail?
Your donor could have had it'd suspension changed by someone prior to yourself?
Only speculation of course!
I pretty sure you can only display black/silver plates if the vehicle was built before Jan 1973 (Someone correct me if I'm wrong), and if you put it through IVA they will give it a 2013 first registration date. Strictly speaking it is the BUILD date that counts, but what would that be? I think if plod pulled a kit car with black/silver plates and 2013 first registration date it would be unlikely you would win in court.
The double jointed IRS is quite a different looking thing to the old swing axles. I think the vosa guys are more knowledgable than your average mot station. Your donor could have had it'd suspension changed by someone prior to yourself?
Only speculation of course!
I pretty sure you can only display black/silver plates if the vehicle was built before Jan 1973 (Someone correct me if I'm wrong), and if you put it through IVA they will give it a 2013 first registration date. Strictly speaking it is the BUILD date that counts, but what would that be? I think if plod pulled a kit car with black/silver plates and 2013 first registration date it would be unlikely you would win in court.
Yes the donor would be pre 73, and I had thought there might be some confusion between build date and date of reg. I think that's a risk I'd be willing to take. After all a 50's looking Porsche with pre reg black plates is not going to jump out to the police as abnormal.
Edited by richardab1967 on Friday 13th September 09:00
PaulKemp said:
The VOSA testers who perform IVA are very clued up, DVLA less so
VOSA what to make sure its safe
DVLA want to be sure its what you say it is
You can get an age related with very few Componants we describe front hubs as one axle, steering as the column and or steering rack, back axle could just be Diff shafts and hubs and you don't need all of them, engine and box count for most of the points
I don't think an age related will be an issue
Thanks for that. VOSA what to make sure its safe
DVLA want to be sure its what you say it is
You can get an age related with very few Componants we describe front hubs as one axle, steering as the column and or steering rack, back axle could just be Diff shafts and hubs and you don't need all of them, engine and box count for most of the points
I don't think an age related will be an issue
I have wondered about this as definitions of what is, say, an axle on one car is different on another. Beetle swing axles are very much part of the gearbox unit, they are also integral to the rear suspension. Sounds like you have to make your case with vosa when doing iva, I assume this all done on application forms. Anyway if I can use a replacement engine and call it original then with the gearbox I have the 2 major components
Edited by richardab1967 on Friday 13th September 09:06
Not asure if it is still the case but when I built my Fury (registered 2005 and under SVA rules) I had the main parts and the V5 from a B reg Sierra (use the steering column, front uprights and brakes, rear hubs/diff and modded drive shafts), the Sierra had been stripped and the shell disposed of (but car not scrapped on V5) before I got it. Prior to the build starting I bought a Zetec engine, sent off the V5 to register the Zetec number and so could count that as part of the original donor car. That way I got a B reg age related plate no problem. The trick is to make sure the V5 engine number matches the engine in the kit.
As has previously said and as far as I know - VOSA inspect for safety (i.e. don't care what parts you use so long as they meet IVA spec), DVLA ensure the log book matches the car description and engine/chassis number and assign a New/Age related/Q plate based on the info provided.
As has previously said and as far as I know - VOSA inspect for safety (i.e. don't care what parts you use so long as they meet IVA spec), DVLA ensure the log book matches the car description and engine/chassis number and assign a New/Age related/Q plate based on the info provided.
ugg10 said:
Not asure if it is still the case but when I built my Fury (registered 2005 and under SVA rules) I had the main parts and the V5 from a B reg Sierra (use the steering column, front uprights and brakes, rear hubs/diff and modded drive shafts), the Sierra had been stripped and the shell disposed of (but car not scrapped on V5) before I got it. Prior to the build starting I bought a Zetec engine, sent off the V5 to register the Zetec number and so could count that as part of the original donor car. That way I got a B reg age related plate no problem. The trick is to make sure the V5 engine number matches the engine in the kit.
As has previously said and as far as I know - VOSA inspect for safety (i.e. don't care what parts you use so long as they meet IVA spec), DVLA ensure the log book matches the car description and engine/chassis number and assign a New/Age related/Q plate based on the info provided.
I think you will find DVLA will no longer accept an engine change to the donor unless you have evidence it has been in there for some years.As has previously said and as far as I know - VOSA inspect for safety (i.e. don't care what parts you use so long as they meet IVA spec), DVLA ensure the log book matches the car description and engine/chassis number and assign a New/Age related/Q plate based on the info provided.
Steve
ugg10 said:
They have tightened up their act a bit then, but it may also have been the fact that I changed the V5 when I got the kit and it took me 5 years to build !!
Quite likely how you got through. However I was told they are now expecting to see the car taxed and MOT'd during the period after the engine change has been notified. The counter argument is that they are so incompetent they probably would not notice.Steve
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