vehicle recognishion on V5
Discussion
Modified vehicle and kit-car correct VR5 details ?
Over the last few weeks I have been researching the current situation and itseems that we are in a hell of a mess with this EU directive instigated catastrophy. No one appears to have the correct answers from the DVLA administration or the examining inspectors, all sorts of conflicting opinions and lack of co-operation between the various departments leading to losses in time, money and inconveniece to the consumer ie- [you & me], It appears that this chao's has been going on for well over 12 months without much attention from the authorities to ease or rectify the situation so if this continues the specialist vehicle, kit-car , concept and limited edition variations are going to disappear off the UK market forever , more jobs lost ,more firms closed down and more tradesmen wasted!,Thank you a lot EU !!.
At present it would appear everyone is only interested in getting their own project approved and on the road without taking the wider view and accessing the collateral damage that is being surreptitiously introduced into existance with this operation. The latest news indicates that the DVLA have circulated a memorandom to all MOT stations in refence to INF26 ( recognition of vehicles) stating that all vehicles not appearing as described in VR 5 must be refused test, MOT cert and refered to DVLA for investigation.
Has anyone realized the repercussions of that notice?
Man drives in for an MOT, Good morning, Sir I need your VR5 ! Hell whats that for a car ? never seen or heard of this one , .NOW THE FUN STARTS.
Photo :- Offer some suggestions as to what you think the original vehicle was?
Over the last few weeks I have been researching the current situation and itseems that we are in a hell of a mess with this EU directive instigated catastrophy. No one appears to have the correct answers from the DVLA administration or the examining inspectors, all sorts of conflicting opinions and lack of co-operation between the various departments leading to losses in time, money and inconveniece to the consumer ie- [you & me], It appears that this chao's has been going on for well over 12 months without much attention from the authorities to ease or rectify the situation so if this continues the specialist vehicle, kit-car , concept and limited edition variations are going to disappear off the UK market forever , more jobs lost ,more firms closed down and more tradesmen wasted!,Thank you a lot EU !!.
At present it would appear everyone is only interested in getting their own project approved and on the road without taking the wider view and accessing the collateral damage that is being surreptitiously introduced into existance with this operation. The latest news indicates that the DVLA have circulated a memorandom to all MOT stations in refence to INF26 ( recognition of vehicles) stating that all vehicles not appearing as described in VR 5 must be refused test, MOT cert and refered to DVLA for investigation.
Has anyone realized the repercussions of that notice?
Man drives in for an MOT, Good morning, Sir I need your VR5 ! Hell whats that for a car ? never seen or heard of this one , .NOW THE FUN STARTS.
Photo :- Offer some suggestions as to what you think the original vehicle was?
I recognise this problem. One issue is that the MOT man may not (probably won't) know the kit car, and may get carried away into putting what he thinks on the MOT certificate/into the computer. I've had this issue with my (correctly registered Quantum).
Fortunately the MOT guy trust me to be honest with him, but on 2 occasions he was ready to put 'Ford Kit Car' into his computer - I showed him the V5, and insisted that it was entered as 'Quantum' and he achieved it - but what would have happened if someone else had carried out the MOT who didn't trust me? Invalid MOT and not my fault? A Minefield.
Fortunately the MOT guy trust me to be honest with him, but on 2 occasions he was ready to put 'Ford Kit Car' into his computer - I showed him the V5, and insisted that it was entered as 'Quantum' and he achieved it - but what would have happened if someone else had carried out the MOT who didn't trust me? Invalid MOT and not my fault? A Minefield.
There have been a number of threads on here recently about this subject, but rather than being an issue with the mot operative not recognising a particularly obscure make/model on the v5 they have been more about the car being presented with a v5 still carying the donor car make/model. The main cause of this is likely to be with lax or unclear rules and regs in the 70s's and 80's. For example some one present a dutton meleos (7ish type vehicle) with a v5/mot system decription of a ford escort. The car is obviously not a ford escort and therefore does not represent what the registration document says it is and hence is illegal.
Typically a quick inspection by the local dvla would have the v5 ammended, however with the loss of local dvla agents/offices and the reduced ability to talk to a real person, the ability to navigate the system has become more difficult.
So, in response to your post, this has always been the case, the v5 must describe the car it represents, even if this is generic as "ford escort sports special". There was a moratorium a while back iirc on getting cars properly registered so if you are cosidering buying a kit car that is not as described on the v5 then expect a world of pain with then dvla. However, if it is correctly registered on the v5 the there should be no issues at mot time, but as an insurance I would print off a manufacturers brochure/build manual or similar and take it with you as proof the car is as describedon the v5.
So imo, this is already in place, should be no problem if the v5 describes the car correctly and certainly does not sound the death knoll of uk kit cars as suggested, sorry to disagree with your post but this is how I see it.
Typically a quick inspection by the local dvla would have the v5 ammended, however with the loss of local dvla agents/offices and the reduced ability to talk to a real person, the ability to navigate the system has become more difficult.
So, in response to your post, this has always been the case, the v5 must describe the car it represents, even if this is generic as "ford escort sports special". There was a moratorium a while back iirc on getting cars properly registered so if you are cosidering buying a kit car that is not as described on the v5 then expect a world of pain with then dvla. However, if it is correctly registered on the v5 the there should be no issues at mot time, but as an insurance I would print off a manufacturers brochure/build manual or similar and take it with you as proof the car is as describedon the v5.
So imo, this is already in place, should be no problem if the v5 describes the car correctly and certainly does not sound the death knoll of uk kit cars as suggested, sorry to disagree with your post but this is how I see it.
Reply to Fastpedeller:-What do think would have happened if my tester had entered
a none registered [out of business] manufacturer from the 70's (GP Products) or model listing ie :- MADISON .
Reply to Furyblade -lee:- Thanks for pissing on my parade, just shows that a little knowledge is dangerous or ignorence is bliss ? after building over 20varieties of this model I cannot confer with your childish outburst .
Good morning just dropped in for an MOT on my 475NART- America. Are you joking ,get your ass down to the DVLA
a none registered [out of business] manufacturer from the 70's (GP Products) or model listing ie :- MADISON .
Reply to Furyblade -lee:- Thanks for pissing on my parade, just shows that a little knowledge is dangerous or ignorence is bliss ? after building over 20varieties of this model I cannot confer with your childish outburst .
Good morning just dropped in for an MOT on my 475NART- America. Are you joking ,get your ass down to the DVLA
rolymo said:
Reply to Fastpedeller:-What do think would have happened if my tester had entered
a none registered [out of business] manufacturer from the 70's (GP Products) or model listing ie :- MADISON .
Reply to Furyblade -lee:- Thanks for pissing on my parade, just shows that a little knowledge is dangerous or ignorence is bliss ? after building over 20varieties of this model I cannot confer with your childish outburst .
Good morning just dropped in for an MOT on my 475NART- America. Are you joking ,get your ass down to the DVLA
The vehicle make/model should be exactly as shown on the V5 - if it isn't then it should be referred to DVLA.a none registered [out of business] manufacturer from the 70's (GP Products) or model listing ie :- MADISON .
Reply to Furyblade -lee:- Thanks for pissing on my parade, just shows that a little knowledge is dangerous or ignorence is bliss ? after building over 20varieties of this model I cannot confer with your childish outburst .
Good morning just dropped in for an MOT on my 475NART- America. Are you joking ,get your ass down to the DVLA
If this doesn't compute (but the vehicle is correctly registered) then the problem lies with DVLA, if the vehicle isn't correctly registered then the problem lies with the owner.
The issue I was pointing out with my Quantum is that everything is in order, but the MOT man had no knowledge of what a quantum looked like, was making up his own title for the car, and for all he knew it could have been a Dutton. In Fact if I'd told him it was a Dutton based on a Ford Fiesta I think that would have been entered on the MOT.
There's no easy answer to this as the MOT testers have insufficient knowledge and DVLA are largely incompetent.
All the vehicles you've shown are body conversions and not subject to IVA so why shouldn't you get them properly registered - what's the big deal? The only people to who should be worried are those conversions that go past the IVA line through structural changes such as MR2 Lambos or even the humble Beach Buggy when it's short wheel base. Those won't be happy bunnies if they have to go to DVLA for inspection...
I'm pretty sure any MOT person would know a Beetle floor pan when they stuck that GP up on the ramps!
The flipside is, potentially, kit car values will rise for those properly registered (maybe not the Madison!)
I'm pretty sure any MOT person would know a Beetle floor pan when they stuck that GP up on the ramps!
The flipside is, potentially, kit car values will rise for those properly registered (maybe not the Madison!)
VEHICLE INDENTIFICATION FOR VR5
Reply to Smash :- You are probably half right with the bodykits but the other two are a bit of a headache. the Spyder comes under the same catagory as a beach buggy with a shortened chassis pan. In order to construct this kit it is necessary to remove 10 inches from the pan to achieve the correct wheelbase, however there is a factory approved instruction pamphlet illustrating the correct procedure in the VW archives at Wolfsburg, Braunschweig FRG which makes this operation ( type approved ) by the TUV so I actually got an IVA from the German [Teknischer Ueberwachung] after a great deal of trouble and expense.It was very complicated, cost an arm and a leg and as the EU gets more integrated harmonizing the regulations between the various 27 member counties I suspect those sort of problems are going to end up on our shores sooner or later by way of an EU Directive, so think seriously about staying in the union.
On the Madison the VR5 shows Ford Special ( built 1957) but the car has purpose built chassis to take Cortina Mk 3 running gear (pinto engine) so questions are already forming. although the car has been perfectly legal for the last 30 odd years ,is it now ? I realize that without a major refresh this car will never obtain an IVF pass.
If anyone is interested I can print an explanation of the various problems that had to be overcome to obtain a pass certificate on the Spyder , But a warning, the list is rather long and complicated
Photo :- Here is an interesting case , I wasted a fortune trying to get this on thro inspection and ended up driving it all the time on trade-plates
Reply to Smash :- You are probably half right with the bodykits but the other two are a bit of a headache. the Spyder comes under the same catagory as a beach buggy with a shortened chassis pan. In order to construct this kit it is necessary to remove 10 inches from the pan to achieve the correct wheelbase, however there is a factory approved instruction pamphlet illustrating the correct procedure in the VW archives at Wolfsburg, Braunschweig FRG which makes this operation ( type approved ) by the TUV so I actually got an IVA from the German [Teknischer Ueberwachung] after a great deal of trouble and expense.It was very complicated, cost an arm and a leg and as the EU gets more integrated harmonizing the regulations between the various 27 member counties I suspect those sort of problems are going to end up on our shores sooner or later by way of an EU Directive, so think seriously about staying in the union.
On the Madison the VR5 shows Ford Special ( built 1957) but the car has purpose built chassis to take Cortina Mk 3 running gear (pinto engine) so questions are already forming. although the car has been perfectly legal for the last 30 odd years ,is it now ? I realize that without a major refresh this car will never obtain an IVF pass.
If anyone is interested I can print an explanation of the various problems that had to be overcome to obtain a pass certificate on the Spyder , But a warning, the list is rather long and complicated
Photo :- Here is an interesting case , I wasted a fortune trying to get this on thro inspection and ended up driving it all the time on trade-plates
Lotus-Sunbeam TUV test in Frankfurt FRG,
This illustrates the difference between their (TUV) system and ours (MOT) also the difference in mind set between the European testers and your local bloke (tester).
I went for test with my extremely low mileage, mint condition: - Talbot Sunbeam Lotus series 2 which the previous owner had upgraded with fast road reprofiled camshafts, stage 2 reworked cyl-head and rejetted Weber DCOE 40 carbs.
The car did not pass the test, the tester entered the details into the computer which replied: - access denied vehicle not recognised, enter federal type number (normally entered in the brief /V5)
Tester entered relevant details amended into the computer which replied: - access denied vehicle not recognised, not on federal data base, refer to manufacturer for federal certificate.
Tester, “Sorry cannot test without access to data-base, suggest you contact Talbot.
Main-dealer response: - “Oh never heard of that model, don’t have a reference number for it, this is out of our area of operation, it is better if you contact Talbot HQ direct (here is the address) and I hope you speak French, (muttered about passing the buck, bloody foreigners and good luck with this, you will need it from our experience
When in a tight corner the indomitable English stiff- upper lip takes over and yes after a great deal of effort I did achieve a pass certificate. Was it worth the hassle? .Most definitely the Sunbeam- Lotus is right at the top of my list of ultimate “fun-cars” from a fast drivers prospective.
This illustrates the difference between their (TUV) system and ours (MOT) also the difference in mind set between the European testers and your local bloke (tester).
I went for test with my extremely low mileage, mint condition: - Talbot Sunbeam Lotus series 2 which the previous owner had upgraded with fast road reprofiled camshafts, stage 2 reworked cyl-head and rejetted Weber DCOE 40 carbs.
The car did not pass the test, the tester entered the details into the computer which replied: - access denied vehicle not recognised, enter federal type number (normally entered in the brief /V5)
Tester entered relevant details amended into the computer which replied: - access denied vehicle not recognised, not on federal data base, refer to manufacturer for federal certificate.
Tester, “Sorry cannot test without access to data-base, suggest you contact Talbot.
Main-dealer response: - “Oh never heard of that model, don’t have a reference number for it, this is out of our area of operation, it is better if you contact Talbot HQ direct (here is the address) and I hope you speak French, (muttered about passing the buck, bloody foreigners and good luck with this, you will need it from our experience
When in a tight corner the indomitable English stiff- upper lip takes over and yes after a great deal of effort I did achieve a pass certificate. Was it worth the hassle? .Most definitely the Sunbeam- Lotus is right at the top of my list of ultimate “fun-cars” from a fast drivers prospective.
Doofus said:
If you build a rebody kit car (ie. one that doesn't need an IVA test) will it continue to be registered as whatever the donor was, or do/can you get it re-named somehow?
took a bit of a battle and nearly 4 months but I managed to get the vitara
registered correctly (reading the above posts very pleased I pursued now)
Rich K said:
Doofus said:
If you build a rebody kit car (ie. one that doesn't need an IVA test) will it continue to be registered as whatever the donor was, or do/can you get it re-named somehow?
took a bit of a battle and nearly 4 months but I managed to get the vitararegistered correctly (reading the above posts very pleased I pursued now)
Sammio / Ribble Spyder´s are typical Body Conversions using a un-modified triumph chassis and running gear.
no IVA required, but a short test before MOT if the car applies to this regulation (no-iva)
correctly done the "new" V5c will be issued with the old reg-date, the original triumph chassis number but the make will be altered to triumph-sammio , ribble-triumph, triumph special sammio or similar.
no IVA required, but a short test before MOT if the car applies to this regulation (no-iva)
correctly done the "new" V5c will be issued with the old reg-date, the original triumph chassis number but the make will be altered to triumph-sammio , ribble-triumph, triumph special sammio or similar.
Rich K said:
took a bit of a battle and nearly 4 months but I managed to get the vitara
registered correctly (reading the above posts very pleased I pursued now)
just took the car for its MOT registered correctly (reading the above posts very pleased I pursued now)
it is on the computer as a Landrover / Jeep
tester said "it clearly isn't what it based on?"
So ... it was tested and certified on the new MOT as a Suzuki Vitara.
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