Does a build without IVA interest you more?
Discussion
Now I've successfully put my first car through IVA, Although it wont be finished to the way I want for a while.
It had me thinking....would I do it again?
Now I know I was building something different and maybe in some senses making it more difficult but with so many regulations too meet I feel lucky to of got it passed so easily. So it makes me think if I were to ever do a future project id probably be more interested in a build where IVA was not required. not to be more sloppy but to be able to build some parts to how I want straight away rather then waste money and time.
It had me thinking....would I do it again?
Now I know I was building something different and maybe in some senses making it more difficult but with so many regulations too meet I feel lucky to of got it passed so easily. So it makes me think if I were to ever do a future project id probably be more interested in a build where IVA was not required. not to be more sloppy but to be able to build some parts to how I want straight away rather then waste money and time.
I had similar thoughts a few months ago. I have previously built a Fisher Fury under the old sva rules and passed with a retest (followed by a change from injection to bike post sva). Earlier in the year I was looking at starting another kit, short list was a Mev Replicar or possibly some sort of Seven, but once I added up the cost plus hassle of IVA I quickly came to the conclusion that doing a restomod on a classic was a lot easier, I would also end up with a car worth a similar amount to what I put into it and would have no engine restriction just an mot to pass. So I am now in the middle of a 105e anglia build. I guess if I had really thought about it I should have gone for a pre 1960 model as this does not even need an mot, just finish it and drive.
So, a non iva kit would have interested me, but not a straight panel swap, but that restricts it to separate chassis donors which there are not many about.
So, a non iva kit would have interested me, but not a straight panel swap, but that restricts it to separate chassis donors which there are not many about.
The pre 1960 route is a good one but can be more expensive.
If your plan is to produce a high speed (with race car handling) road car then forget the pre 1960 route. They were ladder frame rather than space frame.
One piece of advice if you go this route.
Make sure the car has a V5.
If it doesn't, you may find you will need to pass SVA with something that will really struggle.
How do I know?
I have looked into this for a project I am working on.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Pre 1973 gives you a lot of scope providing you can pass an MOT.
I want to do something a little different so pre 1960 it is and I don't want a speed monster. Just a monster!
Paul
If your plan is to produce a high speed (with race car handling) road car then forget the pre 1960 route. They were ladder frame rather than space frame.
One piece of advice if you go this route.
Make sure the car has a V5.
If it doesn't, you may find you will need to pass SVA with something that will really struggle.
How do I know?
I have looked into this for a project I am working on.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Pre 1973 gives you a lot of scope providing you can pass an MOT.
I want to do something a little different so pre 1960 it is and I don't want a speed monster. Just a monster!
Paul
Storer, cool project.
As for pre 1960, you can just about get a ford anglia 100e or a mk2 zephyr/zodiac that are more modern monocoque type designs, admitedly welded to a ladder chassis structure under neath, a bit of a half way house.
Would love to do a 100e with a cerbera ajp8 flat plane v8 in it running an irs rear (jag or cerbera end chopped off?). Maybe once I have finished and enjoyed the angle box.
For info, my 1968 anglia 105e (actually a 123e as it is a super) will be running a puma 1.7 zetec se on bike tbs and a type 9, my alternative was a st170 on bike carbs but thought the puma engine suited the character of the car better, think of it as a modern twink. Just illustrates these projects are much more flexible than a kit, shame but true in the current iva climate.
As for pre 1960, you can just about get a ford anglia 100e or a mk2 zephyr/zodiac that are more modern monocoque type designs, admitedly welded to a ladder chassis structure under neath, a bit of a half way house.
Would love to do a 100e with a cerbera ajp8 flat plane v8 in it running an irs rear (jag or cerbera end chopped off?). Maybe once I have finished and enjoyed the angle box.
For info, my 1968 anglia 105e (actually a 123e as it is a super) will be running a puma 1.7 zetec se on bike tbs and a type 9, my alternative was a st170 on bike carbs but thought the puma engine suited the character of the car better, think of it as a modern twink. Just illustrates these projects are much more flexible than a kit, shame but true in the current iva climate.
Kits are great if you have limited skills/knowledge, facilities or equipment.
Most builders would be unable to start from scratch with the type of build you and I are now undertaking unless they have the relevant experience and some serious equipment.
I plan to use 12 BMW M3 throttle bodies on my Meteor engine. It will also have an ECU to sort spark and injector firing. A mixture of old and new school to improve reliability and the driving experience.
Paul
Most builders would be unable to start from scratch with the type of build you and I are now undertaking unless they have the relevant experience and some serious equipment.
I plan to use 12 BMW M3 throttle bodies on my Meteor engine. It will also have an ECU to sort spark and injector firing. A mixture of old and new school to improve reliability and the driving experience.
Paul
Storer, must admit I cheated a little, I managed to find a rolling shell that was already modified (large tunnel, four link kit, turreted rear, escort cross member, bulkhead recessed) and had a bare metal respray, whats more it looks like it has had no welding done. So I am basically building it like a kit but with a fairbit of refurb/update on the rolling stock.
Your build is in a different league to me!
My build blog is here if you are interested www.anglia1968.weebly.com
Your build is in a different league to me!
My build blog is here if you are interested www.anglia1968.weebly.com
With the modifications you mention to the monocoque then IVA would be required. If it has not been tested under SVA or IVA then it is still liable for it even if you bought it that way.
Having said that, it is quite unlikely VOSA will ever know. If you make it too extreme from the outside then you will increase the risk of getting pulled.
Steve
Having said that, it is quite unlikely VOSA will ever know. If you make it too extreme from the outside then you will increase the risk of getting pulled.
Steve
I guess that building a kit car and resto-modding an older car are two different things. I'd love a TVR Vixen, RWD Escort but they are now out of my budget.
I'd also love to build my car from scratch but I wouldn't be able to design a chassis, design and make bodywork etc so it's useful to go with something with a proven record where most of the work has been done. I have the mechanical skills and tools but I know my limitations.
I've also considered getting a pre registered car and restoring it how I want. The issue with that is that yes you don't need to have it tested but you may use more time and money tearing it apart, restoring well used components (that may not be available), repairing and painting fibreglass etc compared to a new kit.
I'd also love to build my car from scratch but I wouldn't be able to design a chassis, design and make bodywork etc so it's useful to go with something with a proven record where most of the work has been done. I have the mechanical skills and tools but I know my limitations.
I've also considered getting a pre registered car and restoring it how I want. The issue with that is that yes you don't need to have it tested but you may use more time and money tearing it apart, restoring well used components (that may not be available), repairing and painting fibreglass etc compared to a new kit.
For me, the short answer would be no, not really.
A lot is made of IVA but I really think people make a little too much of it. It isn't really that much more onerous than SVA was and with any well developed kit that is available on the market today it should be fairly straightforward to get an IVA pass.
OK, it's expensive, but I would just budget for it, personally.
Without doubt, a kit restoration / rebuild would almost certainly make more sense financially but sometimes that's not the point - wouldn't be for me, anyway.
I don't see much appeal anything based on a Herald nor most bodykits, so, if I do ever undertake another kit build, I'll probably factor in the cost for an IVA.
A lot is made of IVA but I really think people make a little too much of it. It isn't really that much more onerous than SVA was and with any well developed kit that is available on the market today it should be fairly straightforward to get an IVA pass.
OK, it's expensive, but I would just budget for it, personally.
Without doubt, a kit restoration / rebuild would almost certainly make more sense financially but sometimes that's not the point - wouldn't be for me, anyway.
I don't see much appeal anything based on a Herald nor most bodykits, so, if I do ever undertake another kit build, I'll probably factor in the cost for an IVA.
I have never built a kit car from scratch. I did start an Ultima GTR but sold it at rolling chassis stage.
I have, however, rebuilt an Ultima GTR where I stripped it down to a bare chassis, modified it and then rebuilt it with some of my own modifications. No IVA required, just an MOT. It is now my "medication" when I have a 'need for speed'. It will do it's third trip to Le Mans in 2015.
The trouble with a kit is you are building someone else's car design and you often come up against their design shortcomings (IMO).
I am no expert or engineer but I know what I like and what I think looks right. I also like to "have a go". It also keeps the grey cells active, a bonus as the years advance.
Paul
I have, however, rebuilt an Ultima GTR where I stripped it down to a bare chassis, modified it and then rebuilt it with some of my own modifications. No IVA required, just an MOT. It is now my "medication" when I have a 'need for speed'. It will do it's third trip to Le Mans in 2015.
The trouble with a kit is you are building someone else's car design and you often come up against their design shortcomings (IMO).
I am no expert or engineer but I know what I like and what I think looks right. I also like to "have a go". It also keeps the grey cells active, a bonus as the years advance.
Paul
Not at all. The only concern with IVA for me is that it's slowly going to prevent any sort of engine tuning, as the supply of old engines dries up and it becomes impossible to pass emissions regs if you do anything to new ones. Though to be fair, that's not IVA specific.
The mechanical parts of it aren't really a big deal IMO.
The mechanical parts of it aren't really a big deal IMO.
Hi James, As you've proved with your project a VERY nice car can be the end result.
I'd prefer to spend a little extra (rather than go for a non-IVA vehicle. As a percentage of the total the IVA cost is small if the builder replaces parts which really should be replaced/repaired if a good job is to be done. I shudder when I see a new bodyshell in GRP which will last for years, enclosing filthy, oil leaking parts!
I can, however, see the appeal of a simple body kit build if it is low cost and uses a more recent platform - hence the popularity of the Tribute vehicles.
p.s. where do your bonnet latches come from? I've looked and can't find.
I'd prefer to spend a little extra (rather than go for a non-IVA vehicle. As a percentage of the total the IVA cost is small if the builder replaces parts which really should be replaced/repaired if a good job is to be done. I shudder when I see a new bodyshell in GRP which will last for years, enclosing filthy, oil leaking parts!
I can, however, see the appeal of a simple body kit build if it is low cost and uses a more recent platform - hence the popularity of the Tribute vehicles.
p.s. where do your bonnet latches come from? I've looked and can't find.
I don't think I would build another kit. Ive built a exocet even though its good value the main reason for it and using the mx5 mechanicals its a good kit but not perfect in design some bits could do with be redsigned.
I did get to the stage with getting it iva'd but money stopped me at the time and so did the project and it stood for almost a year before I got back on to. After doing a few tracks days in my mx5 and hard thinking about how much use I would get on the road not much iva didn't make sense, so its now a track day car only.
I did get to the stage with getting it iva'd but money stopped me at the time and so did the project and it stood for almost a year before I got back on to. After doing a few tracks days in my mx5 and hard thinking about how much use I would get on the road not much iva didn't make sense, so its now a track day car only.
Fastpedeller said:
where do your bonnet latches come from? I've looked and can't find.
Called Quik latch mini, I got them from this guy on ebay. His store seems to have prices mucked up. Im sure if you email him he will correct them, he kept me informed as I had to wait on stock.http://stores.ebay.co.uk/DGMotorsports-Store/QUIK-...
Ignoring the money for me the reason I don't think I could do it again was the compromise on things and designing / building to meet the requirements not to how I wanted but I guess if I had seen what people had done before it may of helped.
Storer said:
The pre 1960 route is a good one but can be more expensive.
If your plan is to produce a high speed (with race car handling) road car then forget the pre 1960 route. They were ladder frame rather than space frame.
First some spaceframes and monocoques predate 1960. A Lotus Eleven and Morris Minor respectively for example but there are more than you'd think. Some companies made mass produced monocoques a couple of decades before then. The Ford Zephyr and Prefect models were, IIRC, monocoque.If your plan is to produce a high speed (with race car handling) road car then forget the pre 1960 route. They were ladder frame rather than space frame.
Secondly the design of a chassis is far more important than the type. The claim that any ladder frame must be floppy is rarely supported by figures and when it is it is often something like a comparison between Austin Seven chassis and early Chapman racecar chassis, hardly fair! Will the chassis stiffness truly be a limiting factor, given that it is probably supporting an outdated form of suspension anyway? If it is then "C" section rails can be boxed in, it may be possible to fit an X brace or to reinforce an existing one.
For this thread the reality is that hardly any donors from that era exist so it is a non starter unless you are making a traditional "special".
cymtriks said:
....If it is then "C" section rails can be boxed in, it may be possible to fit an X brace or to reinforce an existing one.........
This is undoubtedly the way to strengthen a ‘C’ section chassis and the cross brace would improve it further. However it is still a 'Modification' to the chassis so will again put you in IVA territory.Steve
what type of car can you built without IVA?:
the donor needs to have an independant chassis, so the built will be a non-iva body-change, only.
which car from the 60ies and/or seventies has an independent,sturdy and light chassis AND is available for reasonable money AND has a good rear suspension layout?
i dont know any!!
sure, you can always built it to re-body spec. than modify it later, after registration....but thats double work and i expect that in the near future laws will get again stricter in terms of modifying such cars or even historic cars (like an anglia with 5-link, zetec-power, and other "modern", non-contemporary components / modifications)
the donor needs to have an independant chassis, so the built will be a non-iva body-change, only.
which car from the 60ies and/or seventies has an independent,sturdy and light chassis AND is available for reasonable money AND has a good rear suspension layout?
i dont know any!!
sure, you can always built it to re-body spec. than modify it later, after registration....but thats double work and i expect that in the near future laws will get again stricter in terms of modifying such cars or even historic cars (like an anglia with 5-link, zetec-power, and other "modern", non-contemporary components / modifications)
Edited by LLantrisant on Monday 29th December 17:49
MG CHRIS said:
I don't think I would build another kit. Ive built a exocet even though its good value the main reason for it and using the mx5 mechanicals its a good kit but not perfect in design some bits could do with be redsigned.
I did get to the stage with getting it iva'd but money stopped me at the time and so did the project and it stood for almost a year before I got back on to. After doing a few tracks days in my mx5 and hard thinking about how much use I would get on the road not much iva didn't make sense, so its now a track day car only.
I guess the reality here is that, when looking at the budget end of the kit scene, IVA at £500ish, plus a day off, plus the (almost) inevitable retest and additional time off, it is a significant percentage of the total build cost.I did get to the stage with getting it iva'd but money stopped me at the time and so did the project and it stood for almost a year before I got back on to. After doing a few tracks days in my mx5 and hard thinking about how much use I would get on the road not much iva didn't make sense, so its now a track day car only.
I hope you enjoy your car Chris!
If I do ever take on another kit build, I would be budgeting over £10k, so would include the cost of IVA in my budget.
Frankthered said:
MG CHRIS said:
I don't think I would build another kit. Ive built a exocet even though its good value the main reason for it and using the mx5 mechanicals its a good kit but not perfect in design some bits could do with be redsigned.
I did get to the stage with getting it iva'd but money stopped me at the time and so did the project and it stood for almost a year before I got back on to. After doing a few tracks days in my mx5 and hard thinking about how much use I would get on the road not much iva didn't make sense, so its now a track day car only.
I guess the reality here is that, when looking at the budget end of the kit scene, IVA at £500ish, plus a day off, plus the (almost) inevitable retest and additional time off, it is a significant percentage of the total build cost.I did get to the stage with getting it iva'd but money stopped me at the time and so did the project and it stood for almost a year before I got back on to. After doing a few tracks days in my mx5 and hard thinking about how much use I would get on the road not much iva didn't make sense, so its now a track day car only.
I hope you enjoy your car Chris!
If I do ever take on another kit build, I would be budgeting over £10k, so would include the cost of IVA in my budget.
IVA has radically improved the general standards that kit cars are achieving OTR. However the downside IMO is that there are in consequence noticeaby less cars being built and less interest in kit cars. I will build more kit cars because I have done so for more than 50 years. But I am fearful of the kit car market generally. It seems to me the downside of this change may well significantly reduce the builds undertaken. I hope I am wrong but that is my reading of the KC scene.
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