Engines and the SVA.

[chuntington101]

i have heard mixed things about the year that an egine must be to pass the SVA, perticualy emmisions. the Ultima guys say that you must use an engine pre 1974, but then how do Ceterham and the like get away with using new units (K-series, Zetec, etc, etc)?

i have also heard of 1994 being another date concerning emmisions, what is that about?

if this has already bin talked about then please just put me in the right direction.

thanks Chris.

[anonymous-user]

My understanding (may well be completely off the ball) is that pre 1974 block - visual smoke test, pre 1994 (or something) higher emmissions test (no cat required), anything else up to brand suffers more stringent emissions tests and will need a cat to get through SVA (and MOT).

[JonRB]

I seem to recall that from 1992 onwards all new cars sold in the UK had to be fitted with a cat or cats, and that different emission values apply to cat and pre-cat cars.

Perhaps that is the milestone you're thinking of, rather than 1994?

>> Edited by JonRB on Friday 4th February 13:28

[zetec_s6]

I think it's June 1995 that the engine has to be before for the lower emissions test, 3.5% CO, as opposed to 0.5% for anything after that date, hence the CAT being required. Mine was April 1995 and went through the 3.5% test.

[Tony427]

If you can prove the date of engine manufacture then the car is tested to the emissions levels pertaining to that engine at its date of birth. Hence pre cat engines dont need cats but engines from modern cars do. The Ultima guys are obviously scared of getting their yank torque monsters through the emissions given the radical cams and large overlap some of them run..

Its nothing to get worried over as a modern engine with a cat and running to manufacturers specs will easily pass the emissions test, and once tested you can cut out the cats as after 3 years without MOT following the SVA pass all following MOT's will only test for visual smoke at start up, the car being an amatuer built vehicle.

Cheers,

Tony

Tony

[anonymous-user]

Tony427 said:

and once tested you can cut out the cats as after 3 years without MOT following the SVA pass all following MOT's will only test for visual smoke at start up, the car being an amatuer built vehicle.

Not sure about this. I know that someone on Team GTM just failed an MOT because they didn't have a cat fitted to their Spyder. You may be able to find a sympathetic MOT tester, but if they ever finally get their act together and computerise the test centres it'll be impossible to bend the rules and if you pass SVA needing a cat, you'll need a cat for MOTs.

[Paul Drawmer]

I think that the GTM Spyder that failed MOT was not tested as an 'amateur built'. Therefore it had full emissions test.

[Avocet]

The "amateur-built" dispensation was withdrawn from the MOT scheme last year. Strangely enough, VOSA didn't make much of an announcement about this!

Now when you go for an MOT in your kit car, you will need to do emissions bsed on the age of the number plate. For cars with "Q" plates, that's just the "visible smoke" test. If the car has had a "personalised" plate on it, this could work in your favour. Unfortunately, kits that were SVAd after about 2000, will probably have the emissions data coded on to their V5s. All cars currently being SVAd have this data somewhere on their documentation. When the test stations finally get computerised, the tester will do the emissions test on VIN number (which, I imagine will upset a lot of people!)

As far as the original question goes, yes, it goes on the date of the engine for SVA. I think 1995 is the cut-off date for cats. I know it was earlier for mass-produced cars but it was technically possible for them to "enter into service" up to July 1995 (I think) without cats as a dispensation for major manufacturers to register their stocks of vehicles that were sat in fields since before cats were mandatory. VOSA decided (in their kindness!) to allow this as the date for cats on SVA cars.

[soddy]

Pre 1992 .. no cats .. tests to standard non cat emissions.
Post 1992 - Pre 1995 . . if the original vehicle was fitted with cats then it is cat testable.
Post 1995 .. must be cat compliant.

I am pretty sure that the 1974 date is the visible smoke test ... buy the tester a pair of shades and you are well away!

[Paul Drawmer]

Avocet said:

The "amateur-built" dispensation was withdrawn from the MOT scheme last year. Strangely enough, VOSA didn't make much of an announcement about this! ........

Thanks for the info - as you can tell, I didn't know that! I thought that when I completed my V55 to register my car, I was escaping all sorts of testing by putting n/a in all the emissions questions.

[gdr]

I have 18 months to go before 1st Ultima MOT due, but this is a concern - how does the MOT tester know which emissions standards to apply, give my car was registered new in 2003 but has 1973 engine and got through SVA on visible smoke only. My new V5 is all blanks in the emissions sections, does that mean no tests to apply??? Checked V5 for wife's Honda and it too has nothing entered in this section but I suspect it needs to be fully emissions tested. Any recent MOT experiences for newish cars with old engines??

[Avocet]

The DVLA seriously need to get their act in order! When you SVA the car, the Minister's Approval certificate has the emission data coded on it. The box marked "class code" typically has a few letters separated by a number (usually 0). The first tells what category it was SVAd as. "A" is for "Amateur built", "D" is for "disabled", "V" is for "Very Low Volume vehicle" and so on. The "0" is a separation character and the last letter is the emissions test it had to do. It's a year or so since I last looked but at the time,

"· A – Visual test only;
· B – Emission limit 4.5% CO, HC 1200ppm;
· C – Emission limit 3.5%, CO, HC 1200ppm;
· D – Emission limit 0.5% CO, Fast idle 0.3% CO, 200ppm HC; Lambda 0.97 – 1.03;
· E – Emissions limit as per DOT current “In Service Emissions Standards” book;
· F – Emissions limit Diesel 2.5m-1;
· G – Emissions limit Turbo Diesel 3.0m-1."

I doubt these will have changed. The DVLA SHOULD have taken this code and transferred it to their computer and it, in turn, should have printed out your emissions requirements on your V5. I haven't a clue what's happened in your case but I know it's not isolated!

I'm pretty certain the tester will go on the age of the number plate at present (unless you can provide him with "documentary evidence" of the engine's age). I'd certainly hang on to the copy of your Minister's Approval Certificate for that purpose!

I'm also told the DVLA microfilm all the bits of correspondence to do with any car on their computer so they WILL have a copy of the original SVA certificate in Swansea somewhere. I think you can order a copy of everything they hold on your car through the "Fee paying enquiries" section. It's not expensive, less than a tenner I think.

Once the MOT stations get computerised, it should go on the VIN number. As long as you haven't changed your engine, I'm sure there will be a way to prove its 1973 emissions!

[Tony427]

Avocet said:

The "amateur-built" dispensation was withdrawn from the MOT scheme last year. Strangely enough, VOSA didn't make much of an announcement about this! Now when you go for an MOT in your kit car, you will need to do emissions bsed on the age of the number plate. For cars with "Q" plates, that's just the "visible smoke" test. If the car has had a "personalised" plate on it, this could work in your favour. Unfortunately, kits that were SVAd after about 2000, will probably have the emissions data coded on to their V5s. All cars currently being SVAd have this data somewhere on their documentation. When the test stations finally get computerised, the tester will do the emissions test on VIN number (which, I imagine will upset a lot of people!)

Aha, the MOT station who did my pre SVA test ( now no longer required BTW but a good final check anyway) had to be persuaded to do an emissions test, obviously the new rule hadnt been introduced June 04.

As I've got an age related 1979 plate I'm still OK without Cats, its when the computerisation comes in I may get a surprise........although given the govt success with introducing large scale IT projects (DHSS, CSA, NHS etc)we should be safe for a few years !



Cheers,

Tony ( Now proud owner of two Lexus V8's going into a brace of Cobras)

[chuntington101]

thanks to you all for the responce. its realy helped me (and some others) understand what seems a stupidly complex subject!

thanks again Chris.

[Paul Drawmer]

Avocet said:

<snip>The box marked "class code" typically has a few letters separated by a number (usually 0). The first tells what category it was SVAd as. "A" is for "Amateur built", "D" is for "disabled", "V" is for "Very Low Volume vehicle" and so on. The "0" is a separation character and the last letter is the emissions test it had to do. It's a year or so since I last looked but at the time, "· A – Visual test only; · B – Emission limit 4.5% CO, HC 1200ppm; · C – Emission limit 3.5%, CO, HC 1200ppm; · D – Emission limit 0.5% CO, Fast idle 0.3% CO, 200ppm HC; Lambda 0.97 – 1.03; · E – Emissions limit as per DOT current “In Service Emissions Standards” book; · F – Emissions limit Diesel 2.5m-1; · G – Emissions limit Turbo Diesel 3.0m-1." I doubt these will have changed. The DVLA SHOULD have taken this code and transferred it to their computer and it, in turn, should have printed out your emissions requirements on your V5. <snip>

Ah all is now clear...
I've looked at my copy of the approval cert. and sure enough, the class code is A0D.

The actual emmissions result boxes are "n/a"

So; when get my V5, it will be interesting to see what's on there.

Thanks for the explanation.

[gdr]

New V5C for my BMW arrived today - and yet another with no emissions data on it. Looks like DVLA just not bothering or unable to fill in.
I checked my copy of the Ultima's type approval cert and it is indeed coded A-O-A, so I will wave this at them come MOT time. Doubt if I could meet 2003 emissions regulations!!