Not so much a kit car as a massively modified van

[shadebug]

Right, I need a feasability study if you will. First off I am not the most motoring savvy person on the planet though I am trying to pay attention and learn as I go along.

I recently found out that the insurance ona bedford rascal is less than that of the volvo 940 I'm driving now (I'm 19 by the way) so I had a thought that I might be able to realise my dream of doing stupid things with a bedford rascal.

Now, the plan was always based around taking one bedford rascal, removing the engine and transmission, fiotting the engine from a suitable 1 litre triumph motorbike and a suitable transmission, maybe some new suspension and better tyres and then figure out any aesthetics after that. The idea is not necessarily to get a stupidly fast car but to get a car that can actually pull its own weight (as much of a fan of 0 to 30 in 12 seconds as I am I wouldn't appreciate it on long journeys, I live in Essex and study in Aberystwyth so I still need some grunt)

I think that's about it really. I was hoping I could keep it with a stick shift so I'm assuming I'd need some sort of custom gearbox (I know these things usually go for the sequential shifting but I'd like to avoid that if possible)

So, as people that know about these sorts of things, anybody got any ideas? I haven't bought anything yet so everything is very much still being planned, I don't want to start 'til I'm sure that it's possible.

>> Edited by shadebug on Thursday 26th May 11:54

[cazzer]

but if you fit the motorbike engine then the insurance wont be the same will it?
Unless you don't declare it.
Then you aint insured.
So why not just buy something fast in the first place and not insure it?

obviously not advocating doing that, just using hyperbole to make a point

[shadebug]

1) that'd be no fun
2) As I understand it the insurance will actually go down after modifications if I do enough of them as it gets reclassified as a kit car, though I'm not entirely sure, I'll be phoning round insurance companies to figure that out. For the moment I'm really just after the mechanics of it.

[shadebug]

No, now shut up and pretend you like it

[Spartan_andy]

you could always build a kit car thats already in production. Crazy thought i know but you may find the insurance on that is cheaper than the donor vehicle and it will prbably be on the road before the rascal project

[Incorrigible]

Am I the only one who has "Dreamytime escorts" in their head

Anything is possible, but splitting a bike engine and box isn't going to be easy. How are you going to fab everything up ? engine mounts, exhaust, whatever you're going to use to connect the engine and gearbox, prop etc

If I was you, I'd first decide on a short list of available engine/box combinations, then get insurance quotes to check that it could work

Questions like, how do I fit a triumph engine and box onto xyz drive train will be much easier to answer

[SPRITERACER]

Speaking as someone who has rolled a Bedford Rascal (and a Daihatsu 850 cab van!) at a reasonably low speed, i would suggest putting the bike engine in a "Locost" chassis and use the Rascals brakes, rear axle, instruments etc in that, it will probably be easier, quicker, more fun and harder to tip over on a roundabout!!

[shadebug]

The whole point of the project is to use the incredibly useless body that is the bedford rascal, otherwise I'd just be making a kitcar

I'll definitely start looking into some of this though. Can anybody point me in a direction where i can find out wha kind of drive and the such would fit onto the triumph engine?

[GreenV8S]

shadebug said:

As I understand it the insurance will actually go down after modifications if I do enough of them

Ho ho ho, that's an interesting theory! Doing it for the fun of it is a perfectly good reason, but if you think it makes financial sense I think you're kidding yourself.

[Incorrigible]

shadebug said:

Can anybody point me in a direction where i can find out wha kind of drive and the such would fit onto the triumph engine?

Bike engines and grear boxes are in one lump, you'd need to figure out how to build a new crank case or modify the existing one

As I said before, if you're going to use a bike engine I'd definately use the gearbox that comes with it

As for other drive trains take your pick, any newish small car should be sufficient

[shadebug]

GreenV8S said:

Ho ho ho, that's an interesting theory! Doing it for the fun of it is a perfectly good reason, but if you think it makes financial sense I think you're kidding yourself.

It makes MORE financial sense than what I first assumed. As I say, I research these things first.

[JonRB]

My parents own the Suzuki version of teh Bedford Rascal for tip runs, moving stuff, etc. Having borrowed it numerous times over the years I wouldn't dream of driving ones as my main vehicle no matter how modified it was.
These things will change lane on a motorway with the merest hint of a breeze, including being overtaken by lorries.

Your feet are mere inches from the front of the vehicle, so absolutely no front impact protection.

And has been already pointed out, they roll easily.

I overbraked it on a downhill road into a roundabout once (the Basingstoke ringroad with the roundabout that you can take to head down to Alton, for the locals) and I thought it was going to do a forward somersault. Now that was scary.

Sounds like a suitably barking project to me, but I'd rather put a bike engine in a Smart than a Rascal.

[shadebug]

Yeah, but then you can't call it an 'omage to the ailing british car industry.

So are we suggesting some lower suspension to try and minimise that roll?

[SPRITERACER]

I don't think lowering the suspension will help as the basic shape is very narrow and the wheelbase is reletively long, with a very VERY high centre of gravity, the vans were much more stable when fully loaded with bags of compost, concrete or many drunken mates asleep in the back! If you could widen the footprint that might help a little, but basically the best thig you can do is paint it silly colours and enjoy the thing as it it, mine was christened "The Toaster Van" by my mates when i had it and when it was on its last legs I painted it in McLaren Marlboro colours, put a cardboard wing on the back and......rolled it!

Much Fun! dangerous! but i was young!

[shadebug]

Yeah, I'm hoping to have some fun with the seating so that should get some of the weight down... would an actual wing/spoiler help keep it down? I'm hoping to put one on for th fun of it at some point but if it'd help safety wise I'd go for that. I'm gfuessing it wouldn't as it's likely at low speeds that I'm expecting it to tip.

I'm thinking I'll need decent acceleration so I can come out of extremely slow corners and make up for just how slow I need to be going.

Is there any easy way to go about widening the wheelbase, I was expecting to put fatter tyres on it anyway, but if there's anything else.

Can you get a roll cage for a bedford rascal?

[SPRITERACER]

I really think your base vehicle is a problem, the Rascal is basically a very flimsy tin box, it was probably overpowered in its original form, let alone with a bike engine in it. A better option is to go for a bigger Bedford van, like a CF, or a Ford Transit, Mk 1 or 2. these can take a Rover V-8, can have proper brakes fitted, decent seats, buckets in the front and ex airliner seats in the middle etc etc.

The Rascal will end up costing so much to convert that you could have had a realy decent car and pay for the insurance on top for the same money, IMHO.

[The DJ 27]

I have seen a guy who put a ZX-10R engine in the back of a Bedford Rascal. Can't remember where, or how he did it like. Have a search on Google or something

[Avocet]

I could be wrong here but I think the characteristics of the bike engine will be all wrong for this project. The first thing I'd do is try to find out how heavy a Rascal is without its engine - then add the weight of the bike engine. Have a look at the weights of typical bike-engined 7s and compare those with the likely weight of your project. I accept that you can overcome some of this with suitable gear ratios but if you're planning on using it for long runs between your two places of residence, you might regret too low a set of gears! On the other hand, if you ever try to carry any weight in it - even a few mates, you might trash the clutch with just a couple of hill starts.

[minimax]

shadebug said:

Yeah, but then you can't call it an 'omage to the ailing british car industry. So are we suggesting some lower suspension to try and minimise that roll?

now that's what you call dogged determination

[big@l]

Shadebug,

Sounds a damned fine scheme to me! If you e-mail <[e-mail]> he MAY be able to help you out. I'm pretty sure he's in touch with someone who's doing a similar thing.

Alternatively, go to ppcmag.co.uk, log onto the new forum and pose the question. Its a brand new forum (yesterday in fact) but there are some seriously deranged people who can't help but build lots of weird and wonderful stuff.

Hope thats of help.

Regards,

Al.