kit car registration / chassis number help needed
Discussion
i am hoping someone can give me a bit of advice as i am currently considering purchasing a replica GT40 kit car (built in 2001) which is registered as a 1969 car. it uses a log book from a 1969 Ford Capri, however the engine size, and car colour has been changed to match the kit car. the Kit car has the chassis number from the Ford Capri. Is this normal practice and will it cause me any problems with insurance, MOT etc. The kit doesnt use a donor car and there is nothing on the car that could be described as a ford capri...any advice would be gratefully recieved.
Scary dilema!
The car (as has been said in earlier posts) SHOULD have been SVA'd (which it was) and SHOULD have been given a different registration. At best, it would have been a different registration of the same "age" as the 1969 donor. At worst, it would have been given a "Q" plate. The problem I think you may now have if you approach the DVLA for a retrospective registration change, is that they might not believe what parts came from the donor and what parts were "new" or "reconditioned" or second hand from something other than the donor. Failure to convince them that at least TWO major components came from the donor will result in the car being given a "Q" plate.
I'm not saying this will definitey be the case but it is an outcome you will have to be prepared for in your negotiations.
The car (as has been said in earlier posts) SHOULD have been SVA'd (which it was) and SHOULD have been given a different registration. At best, it would have been a different registration of the same "age" as the 1969 donor. At worst, it would have been given a "Q" plate. The problem I think you may now have if you approach the DVLA for a retrospective registration change, is that they might not believe what parts came from the donor and what parts were "new" or "reconditioned" or second hand from something other than the donor. Failure to convince them that at least TWO major components came from the donor will result in the car being given a "Q" plate.
I'm not saying this will definitey be the case but it is an outcome you will have to be prepared for in your negotiations.
Yes but the kit doesn't use a donor, a 1969 Capri or otherwise.
As I understand it, if it had been built from all new components (with 1 or 2 refurbed to as new condition?) it would have been assigned a new registration.
To get an age related plate it would have to use a number of parts from a single donor. Each part is worth a number of points, I think its pretty hard to get enough points for an age related plate unless you're using the engine + gearbox from a single car.
Otherwise you end up with a 'Q' reg.
In all cases the V5 you receive should have the correct make and model for the car and there is no legitimate reason for the V5 being incorrect on a car of that age.
I guess the logbook you've seen doesn't really belong to that car at all, its just an attempt to confuse the system and let him use a '69 reg on the car when it should really be on a Q plate.
If they've still got the MAC certificate (SVA pass) then I assume you can register it now, but I don't know. If they don't, you'll have to SVA it again. I suppose they could have registered it properly already too and have 2 V5s for the same chassis number. One with a Q plate and the correct make and model, and the Capri one you've seen. All seems very suspect though.
As I understand it, if it had been built from all new components (with 1 or 2 refurbed to as new condition?) it would have been assigned a new registration.
To get an age related plate it would have to use a number of parts from a single donor. Each part is worth a number of points, I think its pretty hard to get enough points for an age related plate unless you're using the engine + gearbox from a single car.
Otherwise you end up with a 'Q' reg.
In all cases the V5 you receive should have the correct make and model for the car and there is no legitimate reason for the V5 being incorrect on a car of that age.
I guess the logbook you've seen doesn't really belong to that car at all, its just an attempt to confuse the system and let him use a '69 reg on the car when it should really be on a Q plate.
If they've still got the MAC certificate (SVA pass) then I assume you can register it now, but I don't know. If they don't, you'll have to SVA it again. I suppose they could have registered it properly already too and have 2 V5s for the same chassis number. One with a Q plate and the correct make and model, and the Capri one you've seen. All seems very suspect though.
They don't use the "points" system any more for an age-related plate. They only use the points system for "radically altered vehicles" (and that's not what this is). To get an age related plate you just need "2 major components" from the donor. The list of "major components" is the same as it was in the days when they still used the "points" system but now each major component has equal value. The only (legal) way you can keep the actual same registration that the donor had was if you use the donor's "original unmodified" chassis or monocoque - which any GT40 worthy of the title wouldn't have been able to do!
one of my main concerns about the registration documents was the thought that if the car got stolen could the insurance company insist that they were only going to pay out for the car that was on the registration documents? i.e the 1969 capri. Would it be worth coming clean and (depending on the fact that the original SVA approval was still at hand) hoping that the DVLA dont insist on another SVA test and trying to get an age related plate for when the test took place? i am thinking that they may insist on back payment of all the exempt tax as well though.
'fraid I don't know much about how insurers work - I guess they might but presumably you'd have told them it wasn't the donor when you took the policy out!
DVLA might want back-tax, never come across it before.
I'd guess that they wouldn't really want you to do another SVA if they believed the certificate was genuine but they might well give you a "Q" plate.
DVLA might want back-tax, never come across it before.
I'd guess that they wouldn't really want you to do another SVA if they believed the certificate was genuine but they might well give you a "Q" plate.
If you have now decided not to buy based on the dubious documentation (a decision I agree with) you can now approach your local office with the hypothetical question of how this registration anomaly can be corrected. You don't need to tell them the registration and stitch the guy up just that you are thinking of buying but have doubts.
Each office interpret the rules differently and have different attitudes so you may get lucky and find someone willing to help either yourself, if you buy or the existing owner put the paperwork in order. At the end of the day that’s all it is, paperwork.
Steve
Each office interpret the rules differently and have different attitudes so you may get lucky and find someone willing to help either yourself, if you buy or the existing owner put the paperwork in order. At the end of the day that’s all it is, paperwork.
Steve
I realise most of you will have been over this one, but I've been living in a bubble for years. I have a Dax Tojeiro built 1990 using a 68 Jag. Bought it in 98 with Jag on V5 and never thought to look into changing V5 to Dax info. Now understand there was some kind of 'amnesty' pre-98 which could have remedied this. Is my only option to put it retrospectively (ouch)through SVA or is there any way at all round this?
Bristler said:
I realise most of you will have been over this one, but I've been living in a bubble for years. I have a Dax Tojeiro built 1990 using a 68 Jag. Bought it in 98 with Jag on V5 and never thought to look into changing V5 to Dax info. Now understand there was some kind of 'amnesty' pre-98 which could have remedied this. Is my only option to put it retrospectively (ouch)through SVA or is there any way at all round this?
I think the DVLA were still giving people in your situation the chance to simply update the V5 until recently and might still be. Assuming the car has been previously registered and taxed that is.
Best thing is to contact your local DVLA office and check with them.
No, I'm afriad not. The amnesty ended a couple of years ago. Various industry bodies (STATUS and the like) have been pestering the DVLA to come up with something else and they have recently anounced a scheme (but it's not very good!)
If the kit was built more than 10 years ago AND you've got documentary evidence (i.e. receipts from the time, letters to DVLA etc) AND you've got one or more old MOT certificates describing it as a Dax, they will re-allocate another age-related plate and you won't need to go through SVA.
Unfortunately, thats a bit like companies that say they will only give credit to persons over the age of 85 if accompanied by both parents!
If you can't prove when the kit was first put on the road (to their satisfaction, you will probably get re-registered with a "Q" and you might have to do SVA again.
If the kit was built more than 10 years ago AND you've got documentary evidence (i.e. receipts from the time, letters to DVLA etc) AND you've got one or more old MOT certificates describing it as a Dax, they will re-allocate another age-related plate and you won't need to go through SVA.
Unfortunately, thats a bit like companies that say they will only give credit to persons over the age of 85 if accompanied by both parents!
If you can't prove when the kit was first put on the road (to their satisfaction, you will probably get re-registered with a "Q" and you might have to do SVA again.
I do have all of the documentation relating to the car. I have all MOTs from the build year(1991)with 45 miles on the clock and one of the MOTs does say Dax Cobra, the rest Jaguar; only one year's MOT missing where I had it off the road for a year in 2003-4. It was built by RJB in Wolverhampton (not there now) and I have a (dated) spec fax from them to the first owner who I bought it from in '99. I have photocopies of all V5 incarnations with first owner and my name on it. I even have the sales literature from RJB which featured my car as their 'photographed' vehicle. A chap from the Cobra Club said I might be able to argue the case that I simply didn't know (stupid but true) the gravity of not getting the V5 changed and have used and taxed the car ever since. Worth a try you think?
I have made 'hypothetical' enquiries with regard to changing the V5 to Dax without going through SVA etc with the DVLA. Their email response was thus:
'To have your registration document/certificate amended please highlight the error on the document and return, with a covering letter and copies of any supporting evidence, to the following address.
Consideration will then be given to your request.'
What to do? Assume, this is just a stock reply to relieve me of the V5; once they have it, I'm doomed if they say no, or should I just be done with it and send it in with a full and honest explanantion of the circumstances (have all MOTs, Proof of 1991 build year, didn't know about the amnesty blah blah etc etc) and hope they decide in my favour. I guess I'd have no choice but to do a retrospective SVA if they knock me back particularly if I wanted the sell it in future so perhaps I'm just putting off the inevitable....
'To have your registration document/certificate amended please highlight the error on the document and return, with a covering letter and copies of any supporting evidence, to the following address.
Consideration will then be given to your request.'
What to do? Assume, this is just a stock reply to relieve me of the V5; once they have it, I'm doomed if they say no, or should I just be done with it and send it in with a full and honest explanantion of the circumstances (have all MOTs, Proof of 1991 build year, didn't know about the amnesty blah blah etc etc) and hope they decide in my favour. I guess I'd have no choice but to do a retrospective SVA if they knock me back particularly if I wanted the sell it in future so perhaps I'm just putting off the inevitable....
Do the MOTs describe it as a Dax or as the donor?
If the former, you could be OK.
The car is over 10 years old, you have MOTs correctly describing it, so all that remains is to convince the DVLA of the age of the car and where the donor parts came from. If you can do this you're home and dry. If you can't, you might end up on "Q" plate but they can't make you do an SVA on a car over 10 years old.
If the former, you could be OK.
The car is over 10 years old, you have MOTs correctly describing it, so all that remains is to convince the DVLA of the age of the car and where the donor parts came from. If you can do this you're home and dry. If you can't, you might end up on "Q" plate but they can't make you do an SVA on a car over 10 years old.
Only one of the MOTs (97-98) says Dax Cobra, the others say Jaguar. I have a fax from RJB in Wolverhampton who built the car to the first owner (a friend)from March 1991 detailing engine spec etc., also a sales brochure (for RJB) featuring my car as the photographed vehicle. I could even get a sworn statement from the first owner to say he bought it freshly built in 1991 (if thats admissable?!?). Depends what they regard as 'evidence'?
>> Edited by bristler on Sunday 11th September 23:31
>> Edited by bristler on Sunday 11th September 23:31
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