Student Kit Car Project Research - Your Help Needed!
Discussion
Hi Everyone,
I'm working in a team at Huddersfield University on the Transport Design course on a Kit Car design project.
The project is for a car that compliments the Toniq R ( http://www.toniqr.co.uk ) which was also designed by students at Huddersfield University.
We are currently undertaking research into the Kit Car market and Kit Car owners and were wondering if anyone has a spare minute or two, they could help us out by answering a few questions that would really aid our research and enable us to design something that could possibly revolutionise the Kit Car Market!
Questions:
1. Why did you choose:
a)Your Kit Car? or
b) Your Production Car?
2. In your opinion where are the shortcomings in the current Kit Car market?
3. If a Kit Car was more like a production sports car do you believe it would sell well?
4. When you were considering your car what other competitors did you consider and why didn't you choose them?
5. a) Would you consider a Kit Car if it was a similar standard to your current production car.
b)Why did you consider a Kit Car over a production vehicle?
6a) Your Age?
b)Your Gender?
c)Your Proffession?
Please email me your answers or leave them on the thread!
Thanks for helping!
John.
I'm working in a team at Huddersfield University on the Transport Design course on a Kit Car design project.
The project is for a car that compliments the Toniq R ( http://www.toniqr.co.uk ) which was also designed by students at Huddersfield University.
We are currently undertaking research into the Kit Car market and Kit Car owners and were wondering if anyone has a spare minute or two, they could help us out by answering a few questions that would really aid our research and enable us to design something that could possibly revolutionise the Kit Car Market!
Questions:
1. Why did you choose:
a)Your Kit Car? or
b) Your Production Car?
2. In your opinion where are the shortcomings in the current Kit Car market?
3. If a Kit Car was more like a production sports car do you believe it would sell well?
4. When you were considering your car what other competitors did you consider and why didn't you choose them?
5. a) Would you consider a Kit Car if it was a similar standard to your current production car.
b)Why did you consider a Kit Car over a production vehicle?
6a) Your Age?
b)Your Gender?
c)Your Proffession?
Please email me your answers or leave them on the thread!
Thanks for helping!
John.
Johnny_Hudds said:
1. Why did you choose:
a)Your Kit Car? or
b) Your Production Car?
a) My kit car is a Sylva, chosen because performance & handling could not be matched by a production car at the same price.
b) I have two production cars - one is a company car, which provides sensible everyday transport, the other is a TVR Grifith, which provides me with a performance car comfortable enough for longer distances and taking girlfriends in.
Johnny_Hudds said:
2. In your opinion where are the shortcomings in the current Kit Car market?
Not enough quality original design. Too many companies concentrate on 'Seven' lookalikes or replicas of some sort.
Cost of the better cars has also got a bit silly...difficult to justify building a GTM Libra, Ultima or a Phantom GTR, good as they are, when for less money you can go out and buy a TVR, Lotus. Porsche or Noble second hand, ready to turn the key and go.
Johnny_Hudds said:
3. If a Kit Car was more like a production sports car do you believe it would sell well?
No. See above - I don't think it could compete on cost whilst also being comparable in terms of refinement and practicality. Modern production sports cars are too well developed for one-man-in-a-shed to stand much chance of matchiung them (I'm thinking more Mazda MX5--Honda S2000--Porsche Boxter large-scale production stuff than Lotus Elise, Noble or TVR here, though). A major problem would be the economics of glassfibre/spaceframe body/chassis construction rather than mass-produced pressed steel unitary construction.
Johnny_Hudds said:
4. When you were considering your car what other competitors did you consider and why didn't you choose them?
Considered most of the comparable lightweight kitcars at the time. Chose the Sylva because of it's race winning heritage and well thought-out chassis design.
Johnny_Hudds said:
5. a) Would you consider a Kit Car if it was a similar standard to your current production car.
Hmmm...you mean comfortable, practical, but with unexceptional performance and handling?
Let me think.... Johnny_Hudds said:
b)Why did you consider a Kit Car over a production vehicle?
See 1(a)
Johnny_Hudds said:
6a) Your Age?
37, but have had a continuous string of kitcars since I was 21
Johnny_Hudds said:
b)Your Gender?
Male, allegedly
Johnny_Hudds said:
c)Your Profession?
Design small brick boxes, cynically marketed as 'homes' for people who don't know any better! ;D
>> Edited by Sam_68 on Monday 26th September 15:46
Johnny_Hudds said:
1. Why did you choose:
a)Your Kit Car? or
b) Your Production Car?
2. In your opinion where are the shortcomings in the current Kit Car market?
3. If a Kit Car was more like a production sports car do you believe it would sell well?
4. When you were considering your car what other competitors did you consider and why didn't you choose them?
5. a) Would you consider a Kit Car if it was a similar standard to your current production car.
b)Why did you consider a Kit Car over a production vehicle?
6a) Your Age?
b)Your Gender?
c)Your Proffession?
1) I chose my production car as a daily use family car. The Focus is probably the best car in its sector and I can't really think of much wrong with it apart from the fact that it's lacking in sparkle. Put it this way; I named my Skoda Rapid (Edward) and my Ford KA (Peter) and was fond of them but the Focus is just "The Car" even though it's very good. I don't own a kit car but I'd like to make my own car one day.
2)Four points:
i)Far too few are styled well. The Phantom and Libra are good examples of kit car styling but most are either copies of something else or just plain ugly.
ii)The chassis are rubbish on most kits. I do FEA for a living and most kit car spaceframes are actually less stiff than a simple X braced ladder frame of the same weight. Caterhams and Libras are exceptions. See my file kitcaranalysisv2.doc in the files section of locost7.info or search the locostbuilders.co.uk site
iii)Stop making claims that any old bits wil fit. A colleague of mine was assured that Sierra bits would fit. His Sierra bits didn't! Apparently only certain models had ever been tried so how come he was told that anything would fit? You still read descriptions of kits stating that any V8, or whatever, will fit but how many engines have ever been tried? Stop making these claims.
iv)Doors. Make the adjustment easier. instead of gropping around under the dash trying to fit in shims under the hinge simply bolt the hinges onto the chassis. Mount a door frame, also forming side impact bars, on these hinges. Mount the door on the frame and put the adjustment on these fixings. This method would be waaaay easier. Just sit on the seat and adjust three fixing points, say at the front top, rear top and mid bottom of the door. When finished fix the interior trim into place. Sorted.
3) Good idea. But you don't stand a chance to compete with, say, Ford, as a two or three man band operating out of a friends garage. I assume that this question refers to fit and finish? One effective way to close the gap is to use more of a production car as Quantum did on their Escort based coupe and convertable. Another way is to go for the minimalist route like Caterham or, on a production car, the Elise.
4) I suppose this means why didn't I buy someone elses design instead of starting to think about doing my own. See above, section2.
5a) See section 3
5b) I think most kit builders want an individual car and many like the idea of making one themselves. It's a bit like Lego, only grown up! A few builders seem to go for the performance which, pound for pound, is better in many kits. In some parts of the market. BECs and Caterhams for example, this issue dominates.
6 37, Male, Engineer
If you really want to plug a gaping hole in the market design a 4 seater. I can only think of the Quantum. How about a modern version of the Lotus Elan +2 ? Where is the kit car answer to the Audi TT, Honda Integra Coupe, Alpine V6, Porsche 924/928 etc? Some of us have more than one passenger!
Another hole is in the slot under the Ultima / Cobra kits. A V6 Boxster sized car, I can only think of the Phantom.
1 Chose my Banham BAT because it was one of the few original designs out there that did not try and look like something else. It would also be semi practical and could be left locked in a car park. My everyday car is a Honda civic VTI estate, quite fast but visually very boring, 2 kids necessitates this though.
2 Too many seven and Cobra replicas not enough original designs. The body conversion market is very under exploited, ie. using a stock chassis and putting a body over the top as in the Banham, Avante and that new MX5 kit (forgot name).
3. There is certainly a market for a car in a box , although these are generally quite expensive. The fit and finish is extremely variable I don't think a home builder can ever get to the standard of fit and finsh such as on a production car, although I used to own a Scimitar and that is the finish I am looking to achieve as it too was a hand built car.
4.Looked at the Robin hood seven but decided against as not practical enough. Prefered body conversions but Banham was the only one doing this at that time.
5.I have accepted that the kit car will not be up to the standard as a production vehicle and am prepared to live with it. It is the price you pay for totally original design and saying i built it.
6.Male 35, Mechanical Engineer, ex student of Huddersfield University (Mechcanical Engineering Design) - say hello to Dave Tancock.
2 Too many seven and Cobra replicas not enough original designs. The body conversion market is very under exploited, ie. using a stock chassis and putting a body over the top as in the Banham, Avante and that new MX5 kit (forgot name).
3. There is certainly a market for a car in a box , although these are generally quite expensive. The fit and finish is extremely variable I don't think a home builder can ever get to the standard of fit and finsh such as on a production car, although I used to own a Scimitar and that is the finish I am looking to achieve as it too was a hand built car.
4.Looked at the Robin hood seven but decided against as not practical enough. Prefered body conversions but Banham was the only one doing this at that time.
5.I have accepted that the kit car will not be up to the standard as a production vehicle and am prepared to live with it. It is the price you pay for totally original design and saying i built it.
6.Male 35, Mechanical Engineer, ex student of Huddersfield University (Mechcanical Engineering Design) - say hello to Dave Tancock.
In this Uni project we have to use a donor windscreen. Dose anyone know what sort of windscreen is most commonly used for a 2-seater coupe kit car? Also, as this will need side windows and a rear windscreen, are these usually sourced from a donor car or are they made specifically for the car? Bearing in mind that a turnkey kit might be sold between £20k - £30k.
It is of course a lot cheaper to use a stock windscreen than a bespoke one. My kit uses the one from the metro but it would depend on the design you can use anything that will fit. There are specialist companies that will make a windscreen for you but this requires tooling. There was and item intotalkitcar news about a glass company that had a cancelled order , and the tooling was already made.
For the side windows getting flat glass cut to size is quite cheap , however most modern glass is curved and has to be appropriatly marked. Again using a standard window is the best bet . Think about changing the angles of the standard window when using the glass to give an effect different from standard car. My car uses the original donor metro glass but angles the top edge downard at the rear to give a more raked back appearance.
For the side windows getting flat glass cut to size is quite cheap , however most modern glass is curved and has to be appropriatly marked. Again using a standard window is the best bet . Think about changing the angles of the standard window when using the glass to give an effect different from standard car. My car uses the original donor metro glass but angles the top edge downard at the rear to give a more raked back appearance.
jambon101 said:
Thank you for your responses guys,
We are now, thanks to yourselves and other repsonses we are recieving, building up a fairly good view of where our market is and also who they are.
Please keep sending us your replies.
Jam.
Where you told that you had to design something like the Toniq?
If you just want a fun car for yourselves then fine but if you want to make a successfull kit for general sale I'd reconsider. Just look at the cars in your front street, or the next street! How many seats do they have? The real market for 2 seaters was always small and in the kit car scene it is more than saturated.
Why do you think hardly any kit car companies make big money? There are too few customers chasing too many kits! This is the real issue that your market research needs to address, not the details of people who buy a small number of very similar products in a saturated market, but the details of how to take a product to the vast untaped markets.
As stated above, the big hole in the kit car market is 2+2 / 4 seater. Take a look at the following list for inspiration:
Porsche 928, 924, 911
Alpine GTA, turbo
TVR Cerbera
Audi TT
Triumph Stag
Aston DB7, DB4 Zagato
Maserati Coupe
I'd start with an Elan +2, scale it up by about 5% all round, change the pop up lights to fixed ones and you have a fair starting point for your project.
1a: fastest and best handling thing I could afford to buy, run and insure
b: cheap and practical
2:lots of people trying to copy the look of cars, not many new designs
3: NO, most people use kitcars as a second car, they sacrafice some of the comfort to have a fun car for driving properly and enjoying it for being simple. I don't want a kitcar to be comfy, although I do think a roof would be nice sometimes
4: price, the most fun I could have for the money I had available, I looked at most of the different 7 replicas and a few strikers
5a: probably not, I don't want sound deadening, I want to go as fast as I can, perhaps a decent hard top roof but was still as much of a stripped out racer as possible (think exige and not mx5)
b: best handling and most fun for the money
6a: 17
6b: male
6c: student
b: cheap and practical
2:lots of people trying to copy the look of cars, not many new designs
3: NO, most people use kitcars as a second car, they sacrafice some of the comfort to have a fun car for driving properly and enjoying it for being simple. I don't want a kitcar to be comfy, although I do think a roof would be nice sometimes
4: price, the most fun I could have for the money I had available, I looked at most of the different 7 replicas and a few strikers
5a: probably not, I don't want sound deadening, I want to go as fast as I can, perhaps a decent hard top roof but was still as much of a stripped out racer as possible (think exige and not mx5)
b: best handling and most fun for the money
6a: 17
6b: male
6c: student
cymtriks said:
jambon101 said:
Thank you for your responses guys,
We are now, thanks to yourselves and other repsonses we are recieving, building up a fairly good view of where our market is and also who they are.
Please keep sending us your replies.
Jam.
Where you told that you had to design something like the Toniq?
If you just want a fun car for yourselves then fine but if you want to make a successfull kit for general sale I'd reconsider. Just look at the cars in your front street, or the next street! How many seats do they have? The real market for 2 seaters was always small and in the kit car scene it is more than saturated.
Why do you think hardly any kit car companies make big money? There are too few customers chasing too many kits! This is the real issue that your market research needs to address, not the details of people who buy a small number of very similar products in a saturated market, but the details of how to take a product to the vast untaped markets.
As stated above, the big hole in the kit car market is 2+2 / 4 seater. Take a look at the following list for inspiration:
Porsche 928, 924, 911
Alpine GTA, turbo
TVR Cerbera
Audi TT
Triumph Stag
Aston DB7, DB4 Zagato
Maserati Coupe
I'd start with an Elan +2, scale it up by about 5% all round, change the pop up lights to fixed ones and you have a fair starting point for your project.
The brief, which was written by one of the Toniq R's designers, was to design a car that would 'compliment' the R on the production line, so it doesn't have to be like the original Toniq.
Thanks to everyone who left messages on here or emailed me its a great help!
Please keep them coming! Cheers
John.
>> Edited by Johnny_Hudds on Friday 30th September 12:23
Hi there,
Thank you again for your help, keep any comments that you feel would be useful to us coming.
The project is currently in its opening stages, we are all currently researching the kitcar market and using this information to spot holes/opputunities for us to design something truly special!
Over the next fortnight we will be each producing our own concepts for what we think the market needs, then one from each group of three students will get chosen which the group will then work on for about a month. Once the design is pretty much there on paper we will then produce 1/4 scale clay models (which will evolve futher throughout the modeling stage) and then finally computer aided visualisations and presentation work (there will be 6 designs in total) these will be finished just after christmas.
The reason that the project is in association with Toniq is that the Toniq R was a student project 4 years ago and also one of the co-founders of the company is a guest lecturer at the university. I can imagine that the vehicle we are designing will owe very little to the Toniq R, the brief stipulates that it should maintain the brands purist attitude and 'essense' which we can interpret in any way we want.
The brief does however state that the vehicle must have a hardtop (removable or fixed), full screen (which is from a production model with the wiper gear), 2 seater and road legal (so compliant with sva testing i guess). The vehicle designs will not be another Toniq r or another anything for that matter. Something fresh from the countries best young minds
I promise that once the project get rolling that i will sort out some pics and further details of my groups work, the others have been looking at this forum but i will tell them to also post some info when the time comes. Maybe we will exhibit them at the next big kit car show? (stonleigh? could be good)
Laters.
Jambon.
Thank you again for your help, keep any comments that you feel would be useful to us coming.
The project is currently in its opening stages, we are all currently researching the kitcar market and using this information to spot holes/opputunities for us to design something truly special!
Over the next fortnight we will be each producing our own concepts for what we think the market needs, then one from each group of three students will get chosen which the group will then work on for about a month. Once the design is pretty much there on paper we will then produce 1/4 scale clay models (which will evolve futher throughout the modeling stage) and then finally computer aided visualisations and presentation work (there will be 6 designs in total) these will be finished just after christmas.
The reason that the project is in association with Toniq is that the Toniq R was a student project 4 years ago and also one of the co-founders of the company is a guest lecturer at the university. I can imagine that the vehicle we are designing will owe very little to the Toniq R, the brief stipulates that it should maintain the brands purist attitude and 'essense' which we can interpret in any way we want.
The brief does however state that the vehicle must have a hardtop (removable or fixed), full screen (which is from a production model with the wiper gear), 2 seater and road legal (so compliant with sva testing i guess). The vehicle designs will not be another Toniq r or another anything for that matter. Something fresh from the countries best young minds
I promise that once the project get rolling that i will sort out some pics and further details of my groups work, the others have been looking at this forum but i will tell them to also post some info when the time comes. Maybe we will exhibit them at the next big kit car show? (stonleigh? could be good)
Laters.
Jambon.
1. Why did you choose:
a)Your Kit Car? or
b) Your Production Car?
Drive a GTM Libra as my everyday car, wanted a sports car without high servicing and insurance costs and also something a bit different. I also wanted low depreciation but GTM prices are getting so low I haven't met that criteria!
2. In your opinion where are the shortcomings in the current Kit Car market?
Stock levels for standard build parts. Seen as niche items that not many people use as their main transport so classed as expensive toys.
3. If a Kit Car was more like a production sports car do you believe it would sell well?
No, would be way too expensive, the only viable option for that is rebodies.
4. When you were considering your car what other competitors did you consider and why didn't you choose them?
Phantom Vortex - too wide for my garage and too slow for the price
Attack - 'options' too expensive and roof only temporary use.
5. a) Would you consider a Kit Car if it was a similar standard to your current production car.
Can't see this ever happening apart from with back to basics cars using OEM parts.
b)Why did you consider a Kit Car over a production vehicle?
see 1a
6a) Your Age? 29
b)Your Gender? Male
c)Your Proffession? Automotive Mechanical Design Engineer
a)Your Kit Car? or
b) Your Production Car?
Drive a GTM Libra as my everyday car, wanted a sports car without high servicing and insurance costs and also something a bit different. I also wanted low depreciation but GTM prices are getting so low I haven't met that criteria!
2. In your opinion where are the shortcomings in the current Kit Car market?
Stock levels for standard build parts. Seen as niche items that not many people use as their main transport so classed as expensive toys.
3. If a Kit Car was more like a production sports car do you believe it would sell well?
No, would be way too expensive, the only viable option for that is rebodies.
4. When you were considering your car what other competitors did you consider and why didn't you choose them?
Phantom Vortex - too wide for my garage and too slow for the price
Attack - 'options' too expensive and roof only temporary use.
5. a) Would you consider a Kit Car if it was a similar standard to your current production car.
Can't see this ever happening apart from with back to basics cars using OEM parts.
b)Why did you consider a Kit Car over a production vehicle?
see 1a
6a) Your Age? 29
b)Your Gender? Male
c)Your Proffession? Automotive Mechanical Design Engineer
Hello there Ricola,
Thank you for responding, you are exactly the kind of kitcar owner that my group are interested in hearing from.
We intend to design a small hardtop sportscar similar to the GTM libra that could be used everyday without having neccessarily having to compromise.
The scope for producing a kitcar that isn't viewed as an second car/ expensive trackday toy is there and vastly under utilised by kitcar manufacturers. If you think about it modern TVR's are nothing more than expensive kit cars so why doesn't anyone in the industry produce something with the same wow factor but at a reduced price?
The only real competitor that we identified in the price bracket that we are focusing upon is the GTM Libra, the Phantom isn't special enough and too expensive (£45000 for a factory car with mx-3 lights!! how can this be when the kits cost around £13000??) and the K1 attack is also a bit to expensive to class as a real competitor plus the lack of a hardtop kind of elimates it aswell.
Four seaters are an interesting oppurtunity to make a kitcar that is truly different. Does anyone know if the SVA legislation changes much for different sized vehicle. 4 seats would definately throw up some interesting challenges. To produce a valid, modern four seater in the price bracket that we intend to sell our kit car at (hypothetically) the kit would have to be a rebody, which is getting more difficult as modern cars get more complex.
I think the the market for a small two seater still have plenty of sales in it, the car just has to be right. Tigra's, MGF's (RIP), mx-5's still sell by the bucket load. If we can produce a kitcar that can go head to head with these cars but with a slightly different ace (back to the mini-tvr point) up its sleeve then theres no reason for it not to succeed.
Thoughts.
J.
>> Edited by jambon101 on Thursday 29th September 14:20
>> Edited by jambon101 on Thursday 29th September 15:34
Thank you for responding, you are exactly the kind of kitcar owner that my group are interested in hearing from.
We intend to design a small hardtop sportscar similar to the GTM libra that could be used everyday without having neccessarily having to compromise.
The scope for producing a kitcar that isn't viewed as an second car/ expensive trackday toy is there and vastly under utilised by kitcar manufacturers. If you think about it modern TVR's are nothing more than expensive kit cars so why doesn't anyone in the industry produce something with the same wow factor but at a reduced price?
The only real competitor that we identified in the price bracket that we are focusing upon is the GTM Libra, the Phantom isn't special enough and too expensive (£45000 for a factory car with mx-3 lights!! how can this be when the kits cost around £13000??) and the K1 attack is also a bit to expensive to class as a real competitor plus the lack of a hardtop kind of elimates it aswell.
Four seaters are an interesting oppurtunity to make a kitcar that is truly different. Does anyone know if the SVA legislation changes much for different sized vehicle. 4 seats would definately throw up some interesting challenges. To produce a valid, modern four seater in the price bracket that we intend to sell our kit car at (hypothetically) the kit would have to be a rebody, which is getting more difficult as modern cars get more complex.
I think the the market for a small two seater still have plenty of sales in it, the car just has to be right. Tigra's, MGF's (RIP), mx-5's still sell by the bucket load. If we can produce a kitcar that can go head to head with these cars but with a slightly different ace (back to the mini-tvr point) up its sleeve then theres no reason for it not to succeed.
Thoughts.
J.
>> Edited by jambon101 on Thursday 29th September 14:20
>> Edited by jambon101 on Thursday 29th September 15:34
1. Why did you choose:
a)Your Kit Car?
Fisher Fury - kept an open mind really, wanted something that lots of other people had built (since I'm not an engineer, don't have a lot of experience and not that many tools) and that was tried and tested. Other than that, it just had to go like stink and be reasonably nice to look at.
b) Your Production Car?
Honda S2000 - it's a company car, will be gone in a year or so, hence the Fury to replace it as a trackday/sunny day toy. Will also have to get something 'sensible' so I like the idea of a kit that would fulfil both roles, however it would have to be reliable enough that I can get up on a cold December morning and drive from Wilts to Manchester in the pissing rain and arrive ready to meet clients (ie. not with a big wet patch on my thigh) for it to be considered practical. A tall order indeed.
2. In your opinion where are the shortcomings in the current Kit Car market?
I think the assumption that many of us have more experience than we do for one thing. Thankk god for the web is all I can say, I'd have never attempted a Fury with the frankly shocking build manual they supply if there hadn't been a ready supply of build diaries online and communities such as locostbuilders.com
3. If a Kit Car was more like a production sports car do you believe it would sell well?
No, they have to be different to compete. There is no way a kit will have any of the kudos (Ultima and to an extent Caterham excepted) of the major manufacturers. They also cannot hope to have the build quality and quality control mechanisms in place of the majors so to try and compete on that ground is folly. A kit should offer something the majors can't, either in terms of price or performance.
4. When you were considering your car what other competitors did you consider and why didn't you choose them?
I considered anything within my price range (about £10k for the kit including donor). Having raced a Locost before I was reluctant to go down the Seven route, and a Fury kit with many of the donor parts came up in the PH classifieds so I bought it.
5. a) Would you consider a Kit Car if it was a similar standard to your current production car.
Bit of an ambiguous question really, I don't see how a kit could come up to Honda's standards of quality and reliability. But then I wouldn't expect a car I'd put together in my garage to come up to the standard of a mass-produced Japanese sportscar, so I'd be looking for similar or better performance at a cheaper price.
b)Why did you consider a Kit Car over a production vehicle?
I could build what I wanted to drive, very light with a stonking V8 in it - a mini TVR I suppose.
6a) Your Age? 35
b)Your Gender? male
c)Your Proffession? IT Consultant
a)Your Kit Car?
Fisher Fury - kept an open mind really, wanted something that lots of other people had built (since I'm not an engineer, don't have a lot of experience and not that many tools) and that was tried and tested. Other than that, it just had to go like stink and be reasonably nice to look at.
b) Your Production Car?
Honda S2000 - it's a company car, will be gone in a year or so, hence the Fury to replace it as a trackday/sunny day toy. Will also have to get something 'sensible' so I like the idea of a kit that would fulfil both roles, however it would have to be reliable enough that I can get up on a cold December morning and drive from Wilts to Manchester in the pissing rain and arrive ready to meet clients (ie. not with a big wet patch on my thigh) for it to be considered practical. A tall order indeed.
2. In your opinion where are the shortcomings in the current Kit Car market?
I think the assumption that many of us have more experience than we do for one thing. Thankk god for the web is all I can say, I'd have never attempted a Fury with the frankly shocking build manual they supply if there hadn't been a ready supply of build diaries online and communities such as locostbuilders.com
3. If a Kit Car was more like a production sports car do you believe it would sell well?
No, they have to be different to compete. There is no way a kit will have any of the kudos (Ultima and to an extent Caterham excepted) of the major manufacturers. They also cannot hope to have the build quality and quality control mechanisms in place of the majors so to try and compete on that ground is folly. A kit should offer something the majors can't, either in terms of price or performance.
4. When you were considering your car what other competitors did you consider and why didn't you choose them?
I considered anything within my price range (about £10k for the kit including donor). Having raced a Locost before I was reluctant to go down the Seven route, and a Fury kit with many of the donor parts came up in the PH classifieds so I bought it.
5. a) Would you consider a Kit Car if it was a similar standard to your current production car.
Bit of an ambiguous question really, I don't see how a kit could come up to Honda's standards of quality and reliability. But then I wouldn't expect a car I'd put together in my garage to come up to the standard of a mass-produced Japanese sportscar, so I'd be looking for similar or better performance at a cheaper price.
b)Why did you consider a Kit Car over a production vehicle?
I could build what I wanted to drive, very light with a stonking V8 in it - a mini TVR I suppose.
6a) Your Age? 35
b)Your Gender? male
c)Your Proffession? IT Consultant
Guys,
Your market research is not really going in the right direction.
Let me explain.
What you are finding out is the profile of existing customers. These few customers are chasing too many kits, most of which follow a very formulaic type, i.e. a little red two seater sportscar. Few companies are making much money in this market as the laws of supply and demand are working against them.
What you need to do is go beyond this level of research and find out about the potential customers.
The potential customers may be very similar to the existing customers. They may want a very similar product. It would be wrong however to assume that this is automatically the case.
I would seriously suggest that the biggest hole in the market is for a 4 seater or 2+2.
Take a look at:-
Jaguar type R coupe concept car
Mazda RX8
TVR Cerbera
...or any of the cars I mentioned in my previous post.
Of course if you just want to make a car to suit yourself then none of this matters and I suspect that most kit cars start out this way!
Take a look at the thread about kit car design. My own ideas for a mid engined car are on there along with plenty of other peoples ideas.
Also remember that most kit car chassis are actually very poor. Take a look at my analysis kitcaranalysisv2.doc on lowcost7.info which gives an FEA analysis of the locost chassis and how to double it while reducing the number of tubes and saving weight.
Let me know your thoughts on the above!
Your market research is not really going in the right direction.
Let me explain.
What you are finding out is the profile of existing customers. These few customers are chasing too many kits, most of which follow a very formulaic type, i.e. a little red two seater sportscar. Few companies are making much money in this market as the laws of supply and demand are working against them.
What you need to do is go beyond this level of research and find out about the potential customers.
The potential customers may be very similar to the existing customers. They may want a very similar product. It would be wrong however to assume that this is automatically the case.
I would seriously suggest that the biggest hole in the market is for a 4 seater or 2+2.
Take a look at:-
Jaguar type R coupe concept car
Mazda RX8
TVR Cerbera
...or any of the cars I mentioned in my previous post.
Of course if you just want to make a car to suit yourself then none of this matters and I suspect that most kit cars start out this way!
Take a look at the thread about kit car design. My own ideas for a mid engined car are on there along with plenty of other peoples ideas.
Also remember that most kit car chassis are actually very poor. Take a look at my analysis kitcaranalysisv2.doc on lowcost7.info which gives an FEA analysis of the locost chassis and how to double it while reducing the number of tubes and saving weight.
Let me know your thoughts on the above!
I believe that both Cymtricks, and the students, have found two different and still unfilled new niches in the kitcar market.
The plus2 option has been brought up in the past on other kit design threads, and I think it is a potential niche market, with young family/couples with kids that would like to own a more unique car.
Pilgrim is building the speedster +2, Quantum and of late Vindicator.... are all going for this new niche, and I'm sure others are thinking about it.
I also think there is a big niche in the market, left by cars like the old GTM Coupe, a single donor car, in this case Mini, but with a mid-engine layout.
The GTM Libra is a beautiful car, but it is pretty expensive, so if you could recreate a new GTM COUPE at half the price of a Libra you would be on to a winner.
I'm working on it myself, a difficult task, but with some creative thinking it should be achievable.
Will be following your projects and , wish you guys good luck with your kitcar designs.
Italo
The plus2 option has been brought up in the past on other kit design threads, and I think it is a potential niche market, with young family/couples with kids that would like to own a more unique car.
Pilgrim is building the speedster +2, Quantum and of late Vindicator.... are all going for this new niche, and I'm sure others are thinking about it.
I also think there is a big niche in the market, left by cars like the old GTM Coupe, a single donor car, in this case Mini, but with a mid-engine layout.
The GTM Libra is a beautiful car, but it is pretty expensive, so if you could recreate a new GTM COUPE at half the price of a Libra you would be on to a winner.
I'm working on it myself, a difficult task, but with some creative thinking it should be achievable.
Will be following your projects and , wish you guys good luck with your kitcar designs.
Italo
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