Engine question
Discussion
Couple of quick questions about engines. Have I got the sizes right for these engines for kit cars (Westy or other 7 style car)?
-Xflow=1.7
-Zetec=1.8
-Pinto=2.0
-Ford Duratech=2.0
-Vauxhall 16V=2.0
-Rover V8=3.5, 3.9
-CVH=1.6
And which of these is the most insurance friendly/lowest bhp? Am I right in thinking the CVH and then the Xflow?
-Xflow=1.7
-Zetec=1.8
-Pinto=2.0
-Ford Duratech=2.0
-Vauxhall 16V=2.0
-Rover V8=3.5, 3.9
-CVH=1.6
And which of these is the most insurance friendly/lowest bhp? Am I right in thinking the CVH and then the Xflow?
busa_rush said:
You forgot the best engines !! 
Hayabusa 1299cc, R1 998cc, Blade 893cc to 954cc IIRC, GSXR1000 999cc
Yeh, but I'm looking for engines that I could possibly get insured on at the age of 17, and apparently insurers aren't too cheap on bike engines. Of course what I've been told may be totally wrong so I am ready to be corrected.
Mikey G said:
Zetec available in 1.6 and 2 litre form.
Pinto also has a 1.6 version.
Crossflow/CVH probably most insurance friendly
The Crossflow is also available in 1.1 and 1.3 litre form. The 1.1 would obviously be cheapest to insure, but pretty gutless. You are probably best off sticking to standard engines if insurance cost is critical - modifications such as big bores, twin carbs etc. will bump the cost up.
Sam_68 said:
The Crossflow is also available in 1.1 and 1.3 litre form. The 1.1 would obviously be cheapest to insure, but pretty gutless. You are probably best off sticking to standard engines if insurance cost is critical - modifications such as big bores, twin carbs etc. will bump the cost up.
Yeh, I thought the 1.1 would be pretty useless. Has anyone had experience of the 1.3? Does it still have a decent soundtrack?
Unmodified, none of the crossflows are anything special by modern standards - even the 1.6 'GT' spec. is ony 84 bhp.
Tuned, though, they can be real screamers...depends whether you can afford the insurance on modified engines.
Something like a Zetec SE is a much nicer, more powerful engine in standard foirm, but is more expensive to buyand install in a RWD Seven-type car
Tuned, though, they can be real screamers...depends whether you can afford the insurance on modified engines.
Something like a Zetec SE is a much nicer, more powerful engine in standard foirm, but is more expensive to buyand install in a RWD Seven-type car
Sam_68 said:
Unmodified, none of the crossflows are anything special by modern standards - even the 1.6 'GT' spec. is ony 84 bhp.
I know this will sound odd, but I'm quite happy at the news that the 1.6 crossflow has low bhp
Are they easy to get and install into a kit car?
And one final question, if I got an engine that need a bit of a clean up or high milage engine how much would it cost assuming it was just a rebuild and refurb of a few parts (nothing major!)?
m1spw said:
You forgot the best engines !!
Hayabusa 1299cc, R1 998cc, Blade 893cc to 954cc IIRC, GSXR1000 999cc
Yeh, but I'm looking for engines that I could possibly get insured on at the age of 17, and apparently insurers aren't too cheap on bike engines. Of course what I've been told may be totally wrong so I am ready to be corrected.
Some insurers have caught on to the bike engines, others still treat them in size, my insurance company know mine is a 919cc Honda Blade engine but all that concerns them is thats its 919cc.
m1spw said:
Unmodified, none of the crossflows are anything special by modern standards - even the 1.6 'GT' spec. is ony 84 bhp.
I know this will sound odd, but I'm quite happy at the news that the 1.6 crossflow has low bhp
Are they easy to get and install into a kit car?
And one final question, if I got an engine that need a bit of a clean up or high milage engine how much would it cost assuming it was just a rebuild and refurb of a few parts (nothing major!)?
The traditional source for Crossflow engines and inline gearboxes was the Escort MKII. Getting a bit thin on the ground, now, but not impossible to find. You also have the option of hooking the engine from a later, Front Wheel Drive Ford (eg. early Fiesta) up to a Sierra 5-speed box, since Ford had a high level of standardisaton on things like bellhousing bolt patterns, so it's possiible to mix-and-match quite easily.
The Crossflow is a very simple engine, so I'd suggest you get a book and rebuild it yourself - cost of parts and machining shouldn't come to more than £200-£300 at most, probably a lot less if there isn't much wear.
m1spw said:Too small imo
-Rover V8=3.5, 3.9
I'd phone up someone like sureterm and explain your situation and ask them what engine they'd be able to insure for the best premium. You may be surprised how cheap these thing are to insure. My old crossflow car cost me about 120 quid and my 4.6l v8 costs 200. Your age is against you and they may refuse to insure you but often they are significantly cheaper to insure than a normal car.
You can get 1.3 crossflows which will be pretty nippy. I don't know what the supply of these engines is like though as they use them in the locost race series.
1600 xflows are often built as 1700 engines using the 711 block and so on. My old westfield ran on one of these and it put out about 130bhp on twin 40 webers.
CVH engines are, I imagine, pretty easy to get hold of but I don't have any experience of them. There seems to be a bit of a debate as to whether they are any good or offer much tuning potential so it's worth doing some research.
2.0 Pintos are very popular as they often come with the same donor for most of the running gear and come with a gearbox out of the sierra.
16v engines such as the duratec, zetec and vx are all sought after but I imagine they'd be a lot more to buy and insure.
V8s are expensive to buy and relatively expensive to insure.
Buy at this time of year though and you'll sell at a profit come summer (albeit possibly a small one).
Mark
westyman said:
Toyota 4AGe/ 1.6 16 valve is also a good engine to consider. Shouldn't be dear to insure plus is very upgradeable/tunable as age/available funds increase. Nice light, modern, twin cam unit.
But in my experience very expensive to insure for a 17 year old.
The insurers I've spoken to are only worried about engine capacity NOT tuning. Although they are wise to bike engines....
Go 1100 Crossflow. It's easiest.
ferg said:
But in my experience very expensive to insure for a 17 year old.
The insurers I've spoken to are only worried about engine capacity NOT tuning. Although they are wise to bike engines....
Go 1100 Crossflow. It's easiest.
Yeh, but I'll be paying around £2,000+ to insure a production car, so personally I would much prefer to pay £1,500 to insure a 1.6 engined Westfield than paying £2,000 1.2 Corsa...
Now if only I can persuade my mum to let me have a kit car...
Ferg is absolutely right.
When my Seven was first registered it ran an 1100 with a DGV weber.
It sounded great was very smooth and performed about as well as a Golf GTI Mk2. Provided you don't want to go drag racing it was great fun. At you age I would suggest it is an ideal way to get some experience, power in light cars with in experienced drivers can be very dangerous (insurance is expensive for the young for a reason!) The insurance for the 1100 was about £80.
1100 crosflows can also be picked up for next to nothing.
Even now I only run a 1360 crossflow (90 thou overbore)with Big valve head, fast road cam etc. That is more than enough for 0-60 in around 6.5-7 seconds and aound 105 top end. On paper quite dull but it will beat a Griff 500 aound Curborough and match a good Elise or Chimera around Llandow.
Just remember weight is your enemy as much as power is your friend. Build it light and go fast cheaply.
When my Seven was first registered it ran an 1100 with a DGV weber.
It sounded great was very smooth and performed about as well as a Golf GTI Mk2. Provided you don't want to go drag racing it was great fun. At you age I would suggest it is an ideal way to get some experience, power in light cars with in experienced drivers can be very dangerous (insurance is expensive for the young for a reason!) The insurance for the 1100 was about £80.
1100 crosflows can also be picked up for next to nothing.
Even now I only run a 1360 crossflow (90 thou overbore)with Big valve head, fast road cam etc. That is more than enough for 0-60 in around 6.5-7 seconds and aound 105 top end. On paper quite dull but it will beat a Griff 500 aound Curborough and match a good Elise or Chimera around Llandow.
Just remember weight is your enemy as much as power is your friend. Build it light and go fast cheaply.
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