Vauxhall red top history
Discussion
Folks
Im after a bit of history on the vauxhall red top, 2.0 16v dohc. As you can see from my other post im looking at a dax which has one in. What i want to really know is how good they are especilly as the one im looking at is tuned to 240bhp! Is this a good thing for a astra engine! Are they just a G.M version of the rover K Series?
Thanks for your help
Austin.
Im after a bit of history on the vauxhall red top, 2.0 16v dohc. As you can see from my other post im looking at a dax which has one in. What i want to really know is how good they are especilly as the one im looking at is tuned to 240bhp! Is this a good thing for a astra engine! Are they just a G.M version of the rover K Series?
Thanks for your help
Austin.
As said, a very strong, very tuneable engine that produces impressive power and torque even in stock form. Not really comparable to a K series, it has a much more conventional construction whith a better head design (The K-series is realy limited by the size of the valves you can fit). It also dosn't have the head gasket eating reputation of the K! It is of course much heavier than a K series, being a cast iron block.
The only real weakness up to around 200bhp are the big end bolts that should be uprated to ARP parts, much above this and a steel bottom should be considered to give some semblance of reliability.
The early engines had a head that was cast by Cosworth, and bore the "Coscast" logo under one of the exhaust ports. These heads are favoured over the later ones cast by GM, partly as they are supposed to flow a little better, but mainly as they don't suffer from porosity which many of the GM ones tended to.
The only real weakness up to around 200bhp are the big end bolts that should be uprated to ARP parts, much above this and a steel bottom should be considered to give some semblance of reliability.
The early engines had a head that was cast by Cosworth, and bore the "Coscast" logo under one of the exhaust ports. These heads are favoured over the later ones cast by GM, partly as they are supposed to flow a little better, but mainly as they don't suffer from porosity which many of the GM ones tended to.
The c20xe is i must say an extremely reliable and tunebale engine. I had one im my corsa for near on 2 years.
The coscast head is one to look for, but its not a massive worry if you cant find one.
Another problem is the head going porous, but most engines that are floating about now have been modified to stop this. The engine was originally from the astra gte 16v called a 20xe back in the 80's, and when it was put into calibra's, cavaliers, and the mk3 astra in the early 90's it became the c20xe.
The 20xe is quoted at 156 bhp, and the c20xe at 148bhp.
To acheive that 240 bhp will cost money but not a huge amount. SBD design are probably the best place to go if your a beginner and read there website and customer car scenarios.
42mm Jenvey/Qed bodies, something along the lines of emerald fully mapable engine management, some crazy cams, lots of head work, porting flowing etc, probably bore out to 2.1 16v, omega slipper pistons, uprated rods etc, 803 dark green injectors, uprated fuel pump for them, vernier pulleys for setting up, solid lifters, valve caps, valves, valve guides and so on
the 250bhp has been reached many a time but as i said it isnt cheap!
For the sbd 250 kit is £5000+VAT
but i think it could be done cheaper doing all the work yourself, or contact me as i know someone that rebuilds these engines daily for not a massive amount of ££
So budget for £6000 maximum i would say, thats for the whole setup, engine as well, rebuilt and the all runing and you shouldnt be too far off!
But i think for about £4500 it could be acheived
Hope that helps you
Brad
The coscast head is one to look for, but its not a massive worry if you cant find one.
Another problem is the head going porous, but most engines that are floating about now have been modified to stop this. The engine was originally from the astra gte 16v called a 20xe back in the 80's, and when it was put into calibra's, cavaliers, and the mk3 astra in the early 90's it became the c20xe.
The 20xe is quoted at 156 bhp, and the c20xe at 148bhp.
To acheive that 240 bhp will cost money but not a huge amount. SBD design are probably the best place to go if your a beginner and read there website and customer car scenarios.
42mm Jenvey/Qed bodies, something along the lines of emerald fully mapable engine management, some crazy cams, lots of head work, porting flowing etc, probably bore out to 2.1 16v, omega slipper pistons, uprated rods etc, 803 dark green injectors, uprated fuel pump for them, vernier pulleys for setting up, solid lifters, valve caps, valves, valve guides and so on
the 250bhp has been reached many a time but as i said it isnt cheap!
For the sbd 250 kit is £5000+VAT
but i think it could be done cheaper doing all the work yourself, or contact me as i know someone that rebuilds these engines daily for not a massive amount of ££
So budget for £6000 maximum i would say, thats for the whole setup, engine as well, rebuilt and the all runing and you shouldnt be too far off!
But i think for about £4500 it could be acheived
Hope that helps you
Brad
Does the owner have any rolling road plots or preferably dyno plots to authenticate the 240bhp figure? A genuine 240 bhp at the flywheel requires a fair level of investment and there are some aftermarket tuning kits that claim an ouput that they are unlikely to ever reach!
240bhp is a fair bit from an "Astra engine" but remember this was the basis of Vauxhall's championship winning BTCC engine in the Cavalier. There is a 2.2 XE fitted to a Caterham that has somewhere around 320bhp but this is a ridiculous spec Swindon unit (Swindon did the touring car engines) and cost more than a fully built Caterham CSR for just the engine!
240bhp is a fair bit from an "Astra engine" but remember this was the basis of Vauxhall's championship winning BTCC engine in the Cavalier. There is a 2.2 XE fitted to a Caterham that has somewhere around 320bhp but this is a ridiculous spec Swindon unit (Swindon did the touring car engines) and cost more than a fully built Caterham CSR for just the engine!
yep 300 is possible but it costs money. there was caterham which had a touring spec XE put in. i think it was known as the superlight 600 or something, proper one off beast. great engine the XE can be taken to any level you wish really the question is how deep are your pockets, if the 240 engine was built on a good budget then theres no reason why it shouldnt be bad.
>> Edited by ccharlie6 on Friday 20th January 18:59
>> Edited by ccharlie6 on Friday 20th January 18:59
savo1901 said:
hi av not log had my corsa red top i blew the head n gaskit i bought a new cocost head with new gaskit all done now but my temperature keeps goin up an down an water pipes keep goin hard i blead all the air b4 all this so no air blocks. can eny1 think wots up
wtf ?In English please ?
savo1901 said:
hi av not log had my corsa red top i blew the head n gaskit i bought a new cocost head with new gaskit all done now but my temperature keeps goin up an down an water pipes keep goin hard i blead all the air b4 all this so no air blocks. can eny1 think wots up
I love text talk!!!not
240bhp is a serious XE, take it with a pinch of salt unless there are printouts to prove it. Or reciepts for the internals ect. National Hot Rods run about 225 bhp from their XE's , and they cost about £6,000 in parts (my mate is? / was? British Champion). But they take hours and hours of abuse because they are built properly, hence the cost. Companies sell the engines for over £10K to the big boys fully built. Just make sure that if it does somehow run 240, it has the internal / management bits to cope.
BTW the Caterham version with the Swindon Touring Car spec XE was the JPE (Johnathan Palmer Evolution) version of the mid 90's. That was basically the lump from John Cleland's BTTC Chavalier, and most were painted acid yellow. A total weapon, but not a quick as the lesser powered R500 due to the weight of the iron block i recall.
BTW the Caterham version with the Swindon Touring Car spec XE was the JPE (Johnathan Palmer Evolution) version of the mid 90's. That was basically the lump from John Cleland's BTTC Chavalier, and most were painted acid yellow. A total weapon, but not a quick as the lesser powered R500 due to the weight of the iron block i recall.
The XE with Coscast head is a superb and very reliable engine.
I run a 240bhp normally aspirated example in my Sylva Fury (weighs about 600kgs).
It has a stock bottom end, with uprated rod bolts. Also has a dry sump.
It runs QED Cams, MBE Engine Management, 2x 45DCOEs, and tailor made exhaust manifold. SBD Airbox and big flowing air filter.
I've campaigned in the UK Street Racer drag championship a few years ago, with a best time of 12.1 seconds using a 3.89:1 diff. On circuits, I remember during practice at Pembrey I was out with a bunch of Formula Renaults and other slicks and wings single seaters and the Sylva was quicker down the straights (although not in the corners!).
It now has a close ratio Caterham 6 speed which really is beautiful behind the XE, each gear seemingly giving the same shove in the back as the last. These engines are very torquey, I can't remember what mine made but it's over 200 lb ft. Makes them great on the street when it just pulls from any revs in any gear. Ran mine since 1996 as a street car and race car, never had any problems, even when I stuck nitrous on it. Thoroughly recommended.
I run a 240bhp normally aspirated example in my Sylva Fury (weighs about 600kgs).
It has a stock bottom end, with uprated rod bolts. Also has a dry sump.
It runs QED Cams, MBE Engine Management, 2x 45DCOEs, and tailor made exhaust manifold. SBD Airbox and big flowing air filter.
I've campaigned in the UK Street Racer drag championship a few years ago, with a best time of 12.1 seconds using a 3.89:1 diff. On circuits, I remember during practice at Pembrey I was out with a bunch of Formula Renaults and other slicks and wings single seaters and the Sylva was quicker down the straights (although not in the corners!).
It now has a close ratio Caterham 6 speed which really is beautiful behind the XE, each gear seemingly giving the same shove in the back as the last. These engines are very torquey, I can't remember what mine made but it's over 200 lb ft. Makes them great on the street when it just pulls from any revs in any gear. Ran mine since 1996 as a street car and race car, never had any problems, even when I stuck nitrous on it. Thoroughly recommended.
Edited by JenkinsComp on Tuesday 16th September 12:25
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