Bike powered cars

[sintler]

Hi
I am trying to get some info on bike engined cars. I am thinking of getting a Tiger,or Westfield with a Hyabusa engine.I like the idea of the light weight concept and the sequential gearbox. My question is,how are they to live with? I would intend doing track days and driving the thing on the road. What is reliability like? Can I rack up the miles or will I be looking at rebuilds etc. Any hints ortipson buying?
Thanks in advance.

[teecee]

Go here for advice and experiences http://locostbuilders.co.uk/

[Mikey G]

If you want something a little user friendly for more daily use get a car engined version. My Locoblade is a little too light and fragile in my opinion to be used daily and a little uncomfortable with regards to revs (7000rpm @ 70mph) Great for the odd day out in the lanes!
With regards to mileage a well looked after bike engine will last a long time but bear in mind they tend to need servicing a lot more regularly than car engines. Also the different environment with regards to mounting and cooling the engine may effect its life if not done properly.

Locostbuilders is a good resource with plenty of advise there.

[pdw709]

As long as your not planning on using it for a daily commute, then a BEC is fine.
Can be a bit tiresome on long stretches of fast straight road, as the high RPM can be a bit tedious, however I tend to make a point of seeking out the country lanes anyway :-)

Phil

[Jubal]

Get yourself out in both and compare. I wanted a track car first and foremost so went BEC but it's a blast out on the road too. There are tons for sale up and down the country so pick and choose. Also, don't believe anyone who tells you an LSD isn't needed. They have obviously never driven the car in anger.

[sintler]

Thanks for the replies so far. I have never been into bikes so have no experience of their engines. There is a comment on regular servicing to prolong the engine life. I have been into rotary engines for the last few years so have some experience of fragile engines. How often should the bike engines and boxes be serviced and how many miles will they last? Which bike engine is the one of choice?
Thanks

[busa_rush]

sintler said:

Thanks for the replies so far. I have never been into bikes so have no experience of their engines. There is a comment on regular servicing to prolong the engine life. I have been into rotary engines for the last few years so have some experience of fragile engines. How often should the bike engines and boxes be serviced and how many miles will they last? Which bike engine is the one of choice? Thanks

Suzuki Hayabusa, or to give it its proper name GSX1300R (1300cc, 175bhp) is the engine of choice. Other people use the Kawasaki ZX12 (1200cc, 170 bhp), Yamaha R1 (1K cc, 140bhp) or the Honda Fireblade (950cc, 130bhp).

Servicing is the same as for any engine, these are just high reving 4 cyl engines. Maybe more sensitive to oil and proper warm up/cool down than a boggo car engine but we're not morons so that's not a difficult task. Hayabusa engines are on the whole much stronger - this extends to the gearbox too. R1/Blade are much cheaper but they are more prone to breaking.

All engines will do 50,000 miles - depends how you drive them but in stock tune there's no reason why a good bike engine won't give you 3 or 4 years of good service or 20,000 miles. Just make sure you buy a good one in the first place, try reputable people like the Kit Car Workshop and avoid bike breakers unless you know them.


>> Edited by busa_rush on Sunday 12th February 09:37

[dern]

Mikey G said:

If you want something a little user friendly for more daily use get a car engined version. My Locoblade is a little too light and fragile in my opinion to be used daily and a little uncomfortable with regards to revs (7000rpm @ 70mph) Great for the odd day out in the lanes!

Generally speaking the type of cars bike engines go in (7s etc) aren't highly geared anyway so even with a car engine it won't be relaxing. My v8 is spinning away at higher speed that it would have done in the range rover for any given road speed.

You just have to do what us bike riders do and wear ear plugs.

Regards,

Mark

[Mikey G]

dern said:

Mikey G said: If you want something a little user friendly for more daily use get a car engined version. My Locoblade is a little too light and fragile in my opinion to be used daily and a little uncomfortable with regards to revs (7000rpm @ 70mph) Great for the odd day out in the lanes! Generally speaking the type of cars bike engines go in (7s etc) aren't highly geared anyway so even with a car engine it won't be relaxing. My v8 is spinning away at higher speed that it would have done in the range rover for any given road speed. You just have to do what us bike riders do and wear ear plugs. Regards, Mark

I have a bike also

Anyway i dont think any seven is relaxing but the difference in revs when you consider most bike engines rev double what a car engine does it is something to think about if you are going to use the car for more than just trackdays.
Its not thats its a bad sound far from it, but over a period of time the noise gets tedious if your out for a gentle run.
I doubt the Honda Fireblade itself has the revs quite as high as it is in the car! 6th gear limiter at 12krpm is clocking just over 120mph.

[busa_rush]

If you are going to worry about noise when cruising at 7K rpm and think that might be too loud for you then you ought to buy a light brown Rover 214 and a nice tartan rug

[sintler]

Hi
I have been driving around in a single turbo Rx7 for the last 4 years. That struggles to make the db limits at a track. I don't intend to use the car as a daily driver and would mostly drive on the b roads for fun anyway. I doub't noise would be an issue although I am sure the bike will be louder than the Rx7 due to higher rpm's.
My biggest concerns were reliability. With the rotary engine, one detonation and the engine is gone. Not so bad now I understand the engine and tuning, its reliable, but its highly strung putting out around 500bhp, but is cheap (~£1000) to rebuild if it lets go. I was worried the bike engines would be similar, but be costing 2-3 times as much to fix. I don't know that much about them.
Thanks

[andygtt]

saying the busa is the engine of choice is streaching it a bit.... it is the most powerful and so the 'Ultimate' bike engine, however its also the most expensive and costs a minimum of £4k to put in a car reliably (£2.5k for engine £1.5k for dry sump).

This is why the Fireblade is much more popular as its cheaper to buy and wont need expensive upgrades to dry sump like the busa so comes in at about £1k.

However the R1 seems to be taking over as the most poular engine now as it costs same as blade engine and also doesn't need a dry sump.. the older R1's produce 140bhp however the newer ones produce 150bhp.


However there is one last think to consider...... the Busa engine can be turbocharged to silly power!

[sintler]

Besides here on this site, are there any other good places to look to buy a built car?
Thanks

[Antony Moxey]

To be honest, I think you're bogging yourself down a little in the finer details. Regular servicing will look after whatever eventually opt for, whether it be a bike engine or a more 'conventional' one such as a Zetec for instance.

And don't worry about high revs and nonesense like that. In a Seven there's no two ways about it - when you plant it, it's loud, uncomfortable and it shakes your fillings out. My Six with a Zetec revs to 7.2k, and I regularly hit the limiter when out hooning, but that's part of the fun. Also remember that generally these aren't your everyday drives, so don't worry about it racking up the miles either.

I'd suggest just fitting whatever floats your boat, becuase if you fit what's 'practical' and good for maintenance, you'll soon be looking to replace it when you get bored with 'comfort', especially when all your mates are whizing past when you take on a track..

[dern]

sintler said:

My biggest concerns were reliability. With the rotary engine, one detonation and the engine is gone. Not so bad now I understand the engine and tuning, its reliable, but its highly strung putting out around 500bhp, but is cheap (~£1000) to rebuild if it lets go. I was worried the bike engines would be similar, but be costing 2-3 times as much to fix. I don't know that much about them.

My current bike (a blade) has 25k on it and hasn't been pampered. I'm expecting it to last until at least 100k miles with regular servicing. You can argue that you're pulling more weight but you're also gearing down massively which goes some way to compensating. The gearboxes are often the weak point. If you went for a blade or an R1 engine then you can buy a new (2nd hand) engine/gearbox for £1k. Hayabusa engines are obviously much more expensive... you could get a couple of R1 engines for the same cost as a hayabusa engine.

Mark

[Jubal]

sintler said:

Besides here on this site, are there any other good places to look to buy a built car? Thanks

You've already been pointed at locostbuilders where cars come up from time to time. Ebay is good too and don't forget the magazines. There aren't hundreds about though so you have to be patient.

Buying ready built is a good option but there's always a compromise. Once you have decided which manufacturer's kit you want you should go have a look at a couple so you can work out what you like and don't like. I did that and still missed a few things (doh!) but it would've been worse without shopping around. Have fun.

[jaker]

try www.stuart-taylor.co.uk/

They have a good reputation and more race trophies than most.

[busa_rush]

andygtt said:

saying the busa is the engine of choice is streaching it a bit.... it is the most powerful and so the 'Ultimate' bike engine, however its also the most expensive and costs a minimum of £4k to put in a car reliably (£2.5k for engine £1.5k for dry sump). This is why the Fireblade is much more popular as its cheaper to buy and wont need expensive upgrades to dry sump like the busa so comes in at about £1k. However the R1 seems to be taking over as the most poular engine now as it costs same as blade engine and also doesn't need a dry sump.. the older R1's produce 140bhp however the newer ones produce 150bhp. However there is one last think to consider...... the Busa engine can be turbocharged to silly power!

I've lost count of the number of blade/R1 owners I know of who have said "only busas need dry sumping" just before they buy another engine to fit to their now oil and conrod covered engine bay

[andygtt]

just as well I've got me spare already sitting in the garage

[Jon Ison]

R1's, Blades both popular both very rarely go bang, Busa very rarely go bang too but I think the investment in the engine £££££'s is one reason people dry sump them, ZX12 every bit as good as the busa when both in std trim but I've seen a couple pop, then too other end, Blackbird, good strong motor pretty much guaranteed too go pop without some sort of protection in a BEC, be it accusump / dry sump.

By rarely go bang i mean no more frequent than a car engine would when thrashed all day day in day out.