Discussion
Hi all,
I'm just wondering how good a Libra is as a longish distance car? I need a second car that I can drive up and down to Aberdeen (about 80 miles each way) by dual carriageway or over some fabulous hill roads, it needs to be fun but refined enough not to make me go deaf/mad at >70 mph. The car would have to cope with being left outside in Aberdeen for 3 days to 4 weeks while I am offshore without refusing to start or being full of water when I return. I am considering a few cars including Lotus Esprit, 3.0lV6 Alfa spider, TVR Chim/V8S/ Griffith. I love the looks and individuality of the Libra and wonder how it would compare?
I'm just wondering how good a Libra is as a longish distance car? I need a second car that I can drive up and down to Aberdeen (about 80 miles each way) by dual carriageway or over some fabulous hill roads, it needs to be fun but refined enough not to make me go deaf/mad at >70 mph. The car would have to cope with being left outside in Aberdeen for 3 days to 4 weeks while I am offshore without refusing to start or being full of water when I return. I am considering a few cars including Lotus Esprit, 3.0lV6 Alfa spider, TVR Chim/V8S/ Griffith. I love the looks and individuality of the Libra and wonder how it would compare?
Edited by pooh on Saturday 1st July 09:34
mine runs at 70mph and above happily. There is a bit wind noise, but it is a much more pleasant environment that my Citroen ZX for that sort of journey. With the windows closed it's almost boring to be in - it needs a radio...
All Libras have a tendency to have a bit wandering at higher speeds, this is resolved by adding a splitter to the front (I'm currently making one out of plywood).
The car is perfectly waterproof, although on mine the window has a tendency not to make good contact with the seal when you close the window with the door closed.
MPG will be fantastic for you - I get around 40mpg easily toodling to work and back and more than than when travelling on motorways.
The engines are just Rover K-Series so will be as reliable as any MGF / Rover Metro etc.
All Libras have a tendency to have a bit wandering at higher speeds, this is resolved by adding a splitter to the front (I'm currently making one out of plywood).
The car is perfectly waterproof, although on mine the window has a tendency not to make good contact with the seal when you close the window with the door closed.
MPG will be fantastic for you - I get around 40mpg easily toodling to work and back and more than than when travelling on motorways.
The engines are just Rover K-Series so will be as reliable as any MGF / Rover Metro etc.
Edited by docevi1 on Saturday 1st July 09:36
I've not owned a Libra, but I've spent time driving one and have had a couple of Elises, which are very similar in terms of practicality. I've also owned a Griffith and have had experience of Esprits.
My advice would be to go for the Libra.
It should be more reliable than the Griffith or the Esprit (neither of which will take at all kindly to sitting for a couple of weeks while you are out on the rigs), will cost you half as much in fuel and insurance, and will be just as much fun (much more fun than the Alfa).
It certainly won't be as comfortable or relaxed as the others on your list for long motorway trips (I'm thinking more Leeds/Manchester to Aberdeen, though!), but it will be perfectly acceptable, never the less. Over an 80 mile distance on mixed roads, it will be just fine...with Elises I find that around the 100 mile mark is where I want to stop for a break, and my experience of the Libra is that they are very similar indeed.
My advice would be to go for the Libra.
It should be more reliable than the Griffith or the Esprit (neither of which will take at all kindly to sitting for a couple of weeks while you are out on the rigs), will cost you half as much in fuel and insurance, and will be just as much fun (much more fun than the Alfa).
It certainly won't be as comfortable or relaxed as the others on your list for long motorway trips (I'm thinking more Leeds/Manchester to Aberdeen, though!), but it will be perfectly acceptable, never the less. Over an 80 mile distance on mixed roads, it will be just fine...with Elises I find that around the 100 mile mark is where I want to stop for a break, and my experience of the Libra is that they are very similar indeed.
see here:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=277296&f=65&h=0
I did over 300 miles in the morning.
Tomorrow a.m. I'm going to Usk and back - that'll be 200 miles, just 'cause I like driving it.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=277296&f=65&h=0
I did over 300 miles in the morning.
Tomorrow a.m. I'm going to Usk and back - that'll be 200 miles, just 'cause I like driving it.
pooh said:
Ferg, we seem to have a similar taste in cars, I have had 5 minis, a gtm coupe, I have a JTD Multipla and it looks likely that I will end up with a Libra at some point.
5 Mini's eh??
In my case that would be......
3 x 850 Pick-Up
1 x 1275GT
1 x 1293/1380/1400 engined LHD, but converted ex-Belgian Saloon!!
GTM
Series II Land-Rover
No Alfas.
Currently Multipla, Paxo, Libra, Transit, boy has Luego Velocity, 6R4 recently sold off.
Regarding minis
I had
A purple 850, my first car, inherited from my Granny
A black 1275 gt, what a superb car.
and 3 1000s one after another when I was a student (I kept killing the engines)
A red 1380 GTM about 90 hp, fantastic fun, when it was working.
Other cars
A black 1500 Alfa Sprint (Alfa Sud based)with bright green carpets, huge fun.
A 1.7 boxer engined Alfa 145,I wasn't too keen but my wife loved it.
A 1.7 Alfa Sprint ( 33 based), faster but not as good as the 1.5.
A 2.5 V6 wide body Alfa 155, still by far the best handling front wheel drive car I have ever driven, I loved it and would probably still have it if, it wasn't for children.
Jtd Multipla 86k miles and still going strong, IMHO still the best people carrier you can buy.
Fiat Barchetta, looks superb and is fun to drive but I'm starting to fancy a change.
Edited to add, maybe you shold try an Alfa.
I had
A purple 850, my first car, inherited from my Granny
A black 1275 gt, what a superb car.
and 3 1000s one after another when I was a student (I kept killing the engines)
A red 1380 GTM about 90 hp, fantastic fun, when it was working.
Other cars
A black 1500 Alfa Sprint (Alfa Sud based)with bright green carpets, huge fun.
A 1.7 boxer engined Alfa 145,I wasn't too keen but my wife loved it.
A 1.7 Alfa Sprint ( 33 based), faster but not as good as the 1.5.
A 2.5 V6 wide body Alfa 155, still by far the best handling front wheel drive car I have ever driven, I loved it and would probably still have it if, it wasn't for children.
Jtd Multipla 86k miles and still going strong, IMHO still the best people carrier you can buy.
Fiat Barchetta, looks superb and is fun to drive but I'm starting to fancy a change.
Edited to add, maybe you shold try an Alfa.
Edited by pooh on Saturday 1st July 20:14
My father-in-law had a V6 164 to tow his racecar.... it was a toss up each journey which electric window would work. My mother-in-law moved the passenger seat forward so she could put something in the rear footwell and it refused to go back for 2 months.......
Didn't half go well though!!!
Didn't half go well though!!!
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!
There's people with Spyders and some Libras who'll think I put you up to that comment, Pooh.
As far as I am aware you can still order a Libra with a proper Libra front on it. Certainly they are still available for replacements and so I would assume they must be available to new buyers with taste......
Obviously the Spyder front is available on Libras for those with an interest in hairdressing.
There's people with Spyders and some Libras who'll think I put you up to that comment, Pooh.
As far as I am aware you can still order a Libra with a proper Libra front on it. Certainly they are still available for replacements and so I would assume they must be available to new buyers with taste......
Obviously the Spyder front is available on Libras for those with an interest in hairdressing.
No problem. 'Tis the source of much piss-takery over at www.teamGTM.com
Which is, incidentally, where you should be going armed with £20 if you are serious about wanting a Libra. More indepth info than you can shake a stick at.
Which is, incidentally, where you should be going armed with £20 if you are serious about wanting a Libra. More indepth info than you can shake a stick at.
"slow" is subbjective 
I would say a 1.4 is similar in performance to bog standard Elise S1. The S1 has more power but the 1.4 is much lighter... (the Elise will have the edge though).
I took my 1.4 over to the Lakes from here over tight, twisty roads mostly running hard the whole way and didn't got 31mpg, running down to my sisters at 4000rpm in top gets a nice 45mpg... Pretty similar to the 1.8 in reality.
I would say the car could do with a bit more power mind, sometimes seems to lack the low end grunt to get away - you need to change gears fairly often...
I would say a 1.4 is similar in performance to bog standard Elise S1. The S1 has more power but the 1.4 is much lighter... (the Elise will have the edge though). I took my 1.4 over to the Lakes from here over tight, twisty roads mostly running hard the whole way and didn't got 31mpg, running down to my sisters at 4000rpm in top gets a nice 45mpg... Pretty similar to the 1.8 in reality.
I would say the car could do with a bit more power mind, sometimes seems to lack the low end grunt to get away - you need to change gears fairly often...
docevi1 said:
"slow" is subbjective I would say a 1.4 is similar in performance to bog standard Elise S1. The S1 has more power but the 1.4 is much lighter....
I would say a 1.4 is similar in performance to bog standard Elise S1. The S1 has more power but the 1.4 is much lighter....The GTM isn't thatlight. GTM themselves quote 770kg kerb weight for the 1.8 VVC version, which is identical to what Lotus quoted for the 111S version of the Elise S1 with the identical VVC engine. Standard Elise S1 (slightly lighter brakes and trim in original form, as well as the weight saved by not having VVC valve gear on the engine) was 723kg. The 1.4 will be a few kilos lighter if it has the SOHC cylinder head, but obviously a lot less powerful, too. I'd have thought that it could still give a current-generation MX5 or MR2 a run for its money, though.
I've driven an Elise and a GTM back to back (both 1.8, non-VVC versions) and to be honest the performance felt identical, subjectively. The Elise has the advantage of a Lotus badge and extensive range of aftermarket tuning components; the GTM has the advantage of exclusivity, but in terms of performance, dynamics and practicality they really are very difficult to separate.
Sam_68 said:
docevi1 said:
"slow" is subbjective I would say a 1.4 is similar in performance to bog standard Elise S1. The S1 has more power but the 1.4 is much lighter....
The GTM isn't thatlight. GTM themselves quote 770kg kerb weight for the 1.8 VVC version, which is identical to what Lotus quoted for the 111S version of the Elise S1 with the identical VVC engine. Standard Elise S1 (slightly lighter brakes and trim in original form, as well as the weight saved by not having VVC valve gear on the engine) was 723kg. The 1.4 will be a few kilos lighter if it has the SOHC cylinder head, but obviously a lot less powerful, too. I'd have thought that it could still give a current-generation MX5 or MR2 a run for its money, though. I would say a 1.4 is similar in performance to bog standard Elise S1. The S1 has more power but the 1.4 is much lighter.... sam68 said:
...the GTM...practicality...
the one thing that the Libra beats the Elise and the VX220 hands-down is practicality. The Libra has a significantly larger boot and plenty of space in the cabin along with limited room under the front clam. From the VX / Elise's I've seen they don't have anywhere near the same amount of space (even though it is still fairly limited in the Libra). From a driving point of view though, they are about the same...docevi1 said:
sam68 said:
...the GTM...practicality...
the one thing that the Libra beats the Elise and the VX220 hands-down is practicality. The Libra has a significantly larger boot and plenty of space in the cabin along with limited room under the front clam. The GTM certainly has a little more boot space than the Elise, though I've done a weeks camping in Scotland, 2-up, in the Lotus without problems. It is surpising how rarely luggage space becomes an issue in two-seaters, simply because if you aren't travelling alone, you can usually go in the 4-seater belonging to tyour companion, if you need carrying capacity, and if you are travelling alone, you can use the passenger footwell!
Practicality takes many forms, though. Practicality for Pooh might mean the fact that when a sheep jumps out in front of him in a Scottish Glen, he can get have a front clam or a replacement for a bent suspension arm couriered up to him overnight rather than having a car off the road for a couple of weeks while the factory manufactures a replacement.
My own experience of driving Elise and Libra back-to-back sold me on the Libra.
The weight issue is interesting... the original 1.4 Mpi car weighed in under 700kgs!!! But the 1.8VVC took this up to around 730kgs. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the new cars with 'Touring pack' were up scraping in the 800kgs direction.
As for luggage space that was no comparison.
The boot was certainly bigger and the shelf behind the seats is a big difference too plus room under the front.
The weight issue is interesting... the original 1.4 Mpi car weighed in under 700kgs!!! But the 1.8VVC took this up to around 730kgs. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the new cars with 'Touring pack' were up scraping in the 800kgs direction.
As for luggage space that was no comparison.
The boot was certainly bigger and the shelf behind the seats is a big difference too plus room under the front.
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