Onyx Mongoose is improving
Discussion
I've been following the Onyx Mongoose development recently.
[url]www.onyxsportscars.f9.co.uk/id25.htm[/url]
Looks to be dynamically very accomplished if you believe the company's feedback, and is already lapping at sub- R1-powered Seven pace round Brands. Some development left to do so that you can bolt it together with relative ease but it looks really promising - a nice package to start from.
Some nasties have awaited one of the brave souls who kicked off an early build but it seems the factory support is better than adequate, and they're taking comments and feedback on board to get it to a bolt-together state.
[url]http://onyx-mongoose.blogspot.com/[/url]
I've recently had my head turned by the Murtaya in my ongoing search for a true commuter / trackday combo, but I'm starting to wonder whether I can finally get my Radical alternative on the road using this chassis as my starting point... I know I couldn't live with the looks and would be taking on a rebody exercise, but the bits underneath look pretty good value for money.
Anyone else's fancy been tickled by this one?
[url]www.onyxsportscars.f9.co.uk/id25.htm[/url]
Looks to be dynamically very accomplished if you believe the company's feedback, and is already lapping at sub- R1-powered Seven pace round Brands. Some development left to do so that you can bolt it together with relative ease but it looks really promising - a nice package to start from.
Some nasties have awaited one of the brave souls who kicked off an early build but it seems the factory support is better than adequate, and they're taking comments and feedback on board to get it to a bolt-together state.
[url]http://onyx-mongoose.blogspot.com/[/url]
I've recently had my head turned by the Murtaya in my ongoing search for a true commuter / trackday combo, but I'm starting to wonder whether I can finally get my Radical alternative on the road using this chassis as my starting point... I know I couldn't live with the looks and would be taking on a rebody exercise, but the bits underneath look pretty good value for money.
Anyone else's fancy been tickled by this one?
I really like the idea of the inclined car engine - only shame of it is that the temptation is to stick a KA20 Honda VTEC in the back, also improving left-right distribution at the same time. But the risk of inclining a £2000 engine 30 degrees forward and not getting the oil feed and surge issues resolved first time, doesn't bear thinking about!
Whereas practicing on a £50 Metro lump sounds quite sensible really.
They're floating an inline 4 as an alternative but I'm sceptical - from investigating this in the past, using the sensible option of a Audi A4 1.8T engine and box means you end up with larger diameter wheels than ideal simply to avoid excessive driveshaft angles, and still need major sump mods.
The inclined engine is the right way of doing it I think, and seems to have helped traction at least, and you'd hope the polar moment is favourable too. Practically affordable limit of 190bhp is my only gripe.
Oh and the need to spend a winter up to my nads in MDF and filler to get a body made.
Whereas practicing on a £50 Metro lump sounds quite sensible really.
They're floating an inline 4 as an alternative but I'm sceptical - from investigating this in the past, using the sensible option of a Audi A4 1.8T engine and box means you end up with larger diameter wheels than ideal simply to avoid excessive driveshaft angles, and still need major sump mods.
The inclined engine is the right way of doing it I think, and seems to have helped traction at least, and you'd hope the polar moment is favourable too. Practically affordable limit of 190bhp is my only gripe.
Oh and the need to spend a winter up to my nads in MDF and filler to get a body made.
They've had a few articles in KitCar magazine about this car.
I was a bit doubtful about it when I first saw it, but now it's looking interesting.
I don't think it'll be a car for me. My 6'4" frame will have a hard time getting comfortable I fear.
However, I'd love to have a blast in one, once it's available.
--Jools
joolski said:
I don't think it'll be a car for me. My 6'4" frame will have a hard time getting comfortable I fear.
Oh I dunno. I'm 6'3" and have fitted no problem in the Radical SR3, Coram LMP and any number of Sevens.
I'm keeping an open mind - and as I'm in Lincolnshire over Christmas I'm thinking of paying them a visit if anyone's there between Christmas and New Year.
I'll try and get some feedback on here if everything falls into place.
Scroll till the middle of the page, and you will see the Mongoose testing..
www.davebence.co.uk/onyx_firefox/gallery/index.htm
www.davebence.co.uk/onyx_firefox/gallery/index.htm
Argh! My eyes!
OK it's better looking than the red thing but that's like saying Vanessa Feltz is a bit of a catch really cos at least she's not Michelle McManus.
It's not that awful but the screen does it no favours at all.
If I visit them I'm afraid I've got to have a word about styling, and recommend contracting a designer to make them a body shape that a blind man would be pleased to look at.
If the dynamics are that good they'd go from selling a few to hillclimbers, to an honest-to-god stand-up product.
OK it's better looking than the red thing but that's like saying Vanessa Feltz is a bit of a catch really cos at least she's not Michelle McManus.
It's not that awful but the screen does it no favours at all.
If I visit them I'm afraid I've got to have a word about styling, and recommend contracting a designer to make them a body shape that a blind man would be pleased to look at.
If the dynamics are that good they'd go from selling a few to hillclimbers, to an honest-to-god stand-up product.
FNG said:
joolski said:
I don't think it'll be a car for me. My 6'4" frame will have a hard time getting comfortable I fear.
Oh I dunno. I'm 6'3" and have fitted no problem in the Radical SR3, Coram LMP and any number of Sevens.
I'm keeping an open mind - and as I'm in Lincolnshire over Christmas I'm thinking of paying them a visit if anyone's there between Christmas and New Year.
I'll try and get some feedback on here if everything falls into place.
Mmm, I'm more leg than body (should have been a super model), and I tend to have a problem getting my legs in a comfortable position.
It's possible, as you say. I raced karts into my late 20's but I'm not a supple as I used to be
Still, i'll be interested to see what you think of it. Looks like a blast to drive.
--Jools
IIRC a lot of current engines have a three drive shaft arrangement-
A short one to the wheel hub at the "diff" side, a short shaft going along the side of the block to a support at the opposite end of the block and a short drive shaft to the wheel from this support.
With this arrangement if you rotate the block or the gearbox you'll need a new support for the middle of the long drive shaft.
Some engines may not take kindly to this treatment due to-
air locks in the head or block
oil build up in the head or crankcase
Good idea though.
cymtriks said:
Some engines may not take kindly to this treatment due to-
air locks in the head or block
oil build up in the head or crankcase
True enough. Air locks are rarely an insurmountable problem, though - pressure bleeding of the cooling system and a swirl pot will normally prove sufficient - and oil build-up is usually fairly easy to spot at and early stage in the develipment of the engine instasllation, so I'd be hopeful that if it was going to occur with the Mongoose, it would have happened by now.
kartman said:
I am the 'brave soul' building that one!!!! 
Onyx support has been very good though.
Onyx support has been very good though.
hats off to you for takijng the plunge at such an early stage! You seem to be getting your angle grinder out a fair bit in the blog - do you know how many of the mods you're making are being baked into future kits?
I seem to remember Onyx made five chassis initially so I'm hoping that once they're all shifted, a raft of changes will be released.
FNG said:
kartman said:
I am the 'brave soul' building that one!!!!
hats off to you for taking the plunge at such an early stage!
Seconded! I've seen plenty of kits come onto the market where I've thought 'oooh, that looks nice.... but perhaps I'll just wait until its been around a bit and all the bugs have been sorted!' 
Big respect for putting your money where your mouth is! If a few more of us had the guts to do what you have, perhaps more brave and interesting designs would make it, instead of the market being dominated by Seven and Cobra clones!
Onyx seem to have sorted out the issues raised due to rotating the block with respect to oil pickup and surge - as they swapped from a 1.4 to a 1.6 recently I do hope the original engine was stripped to make sure it wasn't wearing unduly.
WRT driveshaft packaging - I think this works out nicely actually. You rotate the engine and box about the driveshaft centreline and chop the sump to maintain a sensible ground clearance. Very handy cos otherwise you either have a lot of mechanical mass located too high in the vehicle, especially if it's only racing and doesn't need 5" ground clearance, or you run nasty driveshaft angles, sap power & trash CV joints.
Do you need a new driveshaft inner mount? The original one mounted at the end of the block would still do the job wouldn't it?
WRT driveshaft packaging - I think this works out nicely actually. You rotate the engine and box about the driveshaft centreline and chop the sump to maintain a sensible ground clearance. Very handy cos otherwise you either have a lot of mechanical mass located too high in the vehicle, especially if it's only racing and doesn't need 5" ground clearance, or you run nasty driveshaft angles, sap power & trash CV joints.
Do you need a new driveshaft inner mount? The original one mounted at the end of the block would still do the job wouldn't it?
Right I've spoken to Onyx, and will be going to see the car on Thursday.
Any questions you have, post them up and I'll make sure I ask them!
The car will be unclothed for minor bodywork modification so there'll be no drive report but on the other hand I can get pics of anything you might want to see more detail of under the skin.
So get asking and I'll make sure my camera batteries are charged
Any questions you have, post them up and I'll make sure I ask them!
The car will be unclothed for minor bodywork modification so there'll be no drive report but on the other hand I can get pics of anything you might want to see more detail of under the skin.
So get asking and I'll make sure my camera batteries are charged
Thanks for your comments guys....(except Ferg!!!)
Answers to most of the questions....I think
I am building the 'RS' (i.e. road) version. In the short term Onyx are not making anymore of these, but concentrating on the Track (TS) version.
Yes....what I coming across I am feeding back to Onyx as some of it crosses over to the TS version
The oil issue is sorted - Onyx have supplied a trick sump which gets over surge under both acceleration and braking. I believe the 1.6 & 1.8 are interchangle with the 1.4 engine?
A lot of kit cars have never got into proper production because no one has taken the plunge to build one until it has been around a while....but if no one buys one the kit won't be around long as companies can only survive on zero sales for so long.
Answers to most of the questions....I think
I am building the 'RS' (i.e. road) version. In the short term Onyx are not making anymore of these, but concentrating on the Track (TS) version.
Yes....what I coming across I am feeding back to Onyx as some of it crosses over to the TS version
The oil issue is sorted - Onyx have supplied a trick sump which gets over surge under both acceleration and braking. I believe the 1.6 & 1.8 are interchangle with the 1.4 engine?
A lot of kit cars have never got into proper production because no one has taken the plunge to build one until it has been around a while....but if no one buys one the kit won't be around long as companies can only survive on zero sales for so long.
It's an odd looking car, but as a cheap track day toy its looks really good value. I'd be tempted to have one as a third (or a fourth car if I kept the 3 I own now
)car and keep my Westfield just for road use. I also like the look of the Silva R1ot and the MK sprint r, but a K-series engine could be picked for alot less money than a bike engine, so it is tempting.
Kirk
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