Best Lotus 7 replica for £4 - 5000
Discussion
Thinking about getting a second hand 7 replica this summer, no knowledge of kit cars but have been looking at the forums and classifieds and think the Tiger super six looks the best deal or an older Westfield, like the look of the Robin Hoods but they seem to be slated on most forums. Whats the general opinion out there ? any advice appreciated
Steer clear of the Robin hoods...My Dad used to build kit cars for people and the one Robin he built was on the basis that they didnt tell anyone he built it...
I had a Tiger Six and it was excellent for the money and the factory, Jim Dudley (owner) gave excellent support even though you didnt buy from them directly. Mine was a Zetec with webber Alpha...saw it for sale for £7,500 recently and the engine build cost me that alone!
Look in Which Kit mag
I had a Tiger Six and it was excellent for the money and the factory, Jim Dudley (owner) gave excellent support even though you didnt buy from them directly. Mine was a Zetec with webber Alpha...saw it for sale for £7,500 recently and the engine build cost me that alone!
Look in Which Kit mag
Go onto www.locostbuilders.co.uk and ask the same question.
Edit too add I see your Yorkshire based ? There are at least three manufacturer's all under an hours drive from you that will fit the bill.
Edit too add I see your Yorkshire based ? There are at least three manufacturer's all under an hours drive from you that will fit the bill.
Edited by Jon Ison on Sunday 4th March 17:12
I've recently completed my Super6 build, and it's been the most enjoyable (car-related) thing I've ever done. Went together pretty well with minimal problems (unlike the Tiger Avon from what I've seen) and although I've only driven it once so far (in a typhoon) it seemed to go pretty well, and felt very solid, much more so than I was expecting, with no obvious rattles or creaks.
Tiger are generally very helpful, and supply stuff at sensible prices. Obviously nothing is up to Caterham standards, but then neither are the prices.
Tiger are generally very helpful, and supply stuff at sensible prices. Obviously nothing is up to Caterham standards, but then neither are the prices.
Jon Ison said:
Go onto www.locostbuilders.co.uk and ask the same question.
Unless you want an unbiased answer, of course...
What are your priorities? Looks? Performance? Quality? Handling?
Robin Hoods score poorly on everything but cost.
Locosts can be very variable in quality and the standard design has an unexceptional chassis and flawed suspension geometry. There are some good ones available, but there are also an awful lot of sheds around in your price range, offered by owner-builders whose pride in their creation gives them a rose-tinted view of the car's worth. Tread carefully...
Most of the Tigers available within your budget range are likely to be the budget version (TigetCat E1), which uses Sierra semi-trailing arm suspension (fundamentally unsuited to use in a 'Seven' type car) to keep costs down. Quality of kit manufacture is much better than Robin Hoods, but don't expect the sharpest handling.
The Sylva is a great car in terms of handling and performance, but is quite small in the cockpit and doesn't look very 'authentic'.
Original 'pre-litigation' Westfields are a nice compromise; reasonably good handling (though not as good as more modern, independent rear suspension designs), well built, hold their values well and look very similar to a 'genuine' Seven, but they are getting quite old now, so you'd need to check chassis condition fairly carefully (though many will have been garaged all their life and rarely driven in wet conditions)... personally, I'd recommend one of these if you are a Seven virgin, unless you like the looks of (and fit into!) the Sylva
Sam_68 said:
Jon Ison said:
Go onto www.locostbuilders.co.uk and ask the same question.
Unless you want an unbiased answer, of course...
Sam, did I mention or recommend a locost ? No.
What I did was recommend ask on locostbuilders, a site that has separate sections for six different manufacturer's, one of which is Tiger btw and three of which are within an hours drive of Yorkshire, where I believe the original poster resides, as three of them are based in Yorkshire, well ok, one is a stones throw over the border or thought it may just help the guy too broaden his horizons.
Why ask on locostbuilders ? It was started by locost enthusiasts correct, but has since grown too probably one of the most active "7 type kit car" sites with regular input from a very broad range of users, from the guy who builds a locost too several manufacturers of 7 type kits and everything in between.
Calm down, Jon, calm down!
Before you run off to thu Locost forum telling tales about the big nasty man who is criticising Locosts on Pistonheads again, just think about what you are saying.
The Locost group is hardly likely to give an unbiased view beacuse the majority of its members are interested in and/or building Locosts.
You are no more likely to get an unbiased view from the Westfield forum, or the Sylva forum, or the Robin Hood forum... a one-make forum is going to favour its own marque, no matter what.
I notice that the longest running thread on the LoCost forum was on the topic of 'Miserable Caterham Owning Bastards' recently deleted for being a fine example of pointless and rabid generalisation that cast an unfavourable light on the LoCost community. Perhaps you'd like to tell us PistonHeaders which paragon of unbiased even-handedness started that particular thread, Jon?
Before you run off to thu Locost forum telling tales about the big nasty man who is criticising Locosts on Pistonheads again, just think about what you are saying.
The Locost group is hardly likely to give an unbiased view beacuse the majority of its members are interested in and/or building Locosts.
You are no more likely to get an unbiased view from the Westfield forum, or the Sylva forum, or the Robin Hood forum... a one-make forum is going to favour its own marque, no matter what.
I notice that the longest running thread on the LoCost forum was on the topic of 'Miserable Caterham Owning Bastards' recently deleted for being a fine example of pointless and rabid generalisation that cast an unfavourable light on the LoCost community. Perhaps you'd like to tell us PistonHeaders which paragon of unbiased even-handedness started that particular thread, Jon?
Sam_68 said:
Calm down, Jon, calm down!
Before you run off to thu Locost forum telling tales about the big nasty man who is criticising Locosts on Pistonheads again, just think about what you are saying.
The Locost group is hardly likely to give an unbiased view beacuse the majority of its members are interested in and/or building Locosts.
You are no more likely to get an unbiased view from the Westfield forum, or the Sylva forum, or the Robin Hood forum... a one-make forum is going to favour its own marque, no matter what.
I notice that the longest running thread on the LoCost forum was on the topic of 'Miserable Caterham Owning Bastards' recently deleted for being a fine example of pointless and rabid generalisation that cast an unfavourable light on the LoCost community. Perhaps you'd like to tell us PistonHeaders which paragon of unbiased even-handedness started that particular thread, Jon?
Before you run off to thu Locost forum telling tales about the big nasty man who is criticising Locosts on Pistonheads again, just think about what you are saying.
The Locost group is hardly likely to give an unbiased view beacuse the majority of its members are interested in and/or building Locosts.
You are no more likely to get an unbiased view from the Westfield forum, or the Sylva forum, or the Robin Hood forum... a one-make forum is going to favour its own marque, no matter what.
I notice that the longest running thread on the LoCost forum was on the topic of 'Miserable Caterham Owning Bastards' recently deleted for being a fine example of pointless and rabid generalisation that cast an unfavourable light on the LoCost community. Perhaps you'd like to tell us PistonHeaders which paragon of unbiased even-handedness started that particular thread, Jon?
Wrong, do your research, at the last poll conducted on there 15% where building locosts, the rest kits.
I knew Id made a mistake trying too help the guy broaden his horizons a bit.
IMHO the Tiger E1 should be avoided unless you just want the "show" value of driving a Seven-esque car, as Sam says it has the complete back end (subframe and all IIRC) of a Sierra so is very heavy and will have very poor suspension dynamics compared to pretty much any other 7 clone.
Ditto the RH, I think that also uses a lot of the Sierra rear suspension, so are also flawed dynamically and comparatively very heavy. The build quality of factory parts is also generally poor, so ultimate car fit / finish is very reliant on the builder themself putting in a lot of effort.
Locosts - I agree with Sam that you should be cautious of the variations possible in home built chassis, but 90% of Locost builders buy a chassis rather than build their own, so if thats the case then there's no special things to check on a Locost, nor any reason why it can't be as well built as most kit cars, and importantly it will weigh a lot less and handle a lot better than either of the two above.
Old Westies will be virtually identical to the Locost in terms of dynamics because the Locost is a copy of the old Westie, but the cars will be getting on for 20 years old so the chassis / panels will need a good check over for corrosion damage.
MK Indys can also be picked up for ~£5k, these are an evolution of the Locost but with IRS suspension and various other chassis changes which should in theory make it handle a bit better than the live axle Locosts / Westfields, particualrly on bumpy roads.
Its also worth remembering that the SVA test has only been around for about 6-7 years, so cars registered prior to that only had to be MOTd in order to be road legal. The SVA does have some very odd and stupid requirements which most kit car owners swear at on a regular basis, but in its defence it does assess some valid safety aspects of cars that an MOT does not, such as seatbelt anchorage points, safe routing of the wiring loom, fuel filler safety etc, so buying a car that's been SVA'd should give you some degree of confidence that its design isn't a complete death trap.
Of those above, I would probably put the Indy at the top of my list, closely followed by a Locost (with a factory chassis), closely followed by the Westie (put in 3rd place simply because of its age), followed by putting my money in a savings account
Ditto the RH, I think that also uses a lot of the Sierra rear suspension, so are also flawed dynamically and comparatively very heavy. The build quality of factory parts is also generally poor, so ultimate car fit / finish is very reliant on the builder themself putting in a lot of effort.
Locosts - I agree with Sam that you should be cautious of the variations possible in home built chassis, but 90% of Locost builders buy a chassis rather than build their own, so if thats the case then there's no special things to check on a Locost, nor any reason why it can't be as well built as most kit cars, and importantly it will weigh a lot less and handle a lot better than either of the two above.
Old Westies will be virtually identical to the Locost in terms of dynamics because the Locost is a copy of the old Westie, but the cars will be getting on for 20 years old so the chassis / panels will need a good check over for corrosion damage.
MK Indys can also be picked up for ~£5k, these are an evolution of the Locost but with IRS suspension and various other chassis changes which should in theory make it handle a bit better than the live axle Locosts / Westfields, particualrly on bumpy roads.
Its also worth remembering that the SVA test has only been around for about 6-7 years, so cars registered prior to that only had to be MOTd in order to be road legal. The SVA does have some very odd and stupid requirements which most kit car owners swear at on a regular basis, but in its defence it does assess some valid safety aspects of cars that an MOT does not, such as seatbelt anchorage points, safe routing of the wiring loom, fuel filler safety etc, so buying a car that's been SVA'd should give you some degree of confidence that its design isn't a complete death trap.
Of those above, I would probably put the Indy at the top of my list, closely followed by a Locost (with a factory chassis), closely followed by the Westie (put in 3rd place simply because of its age), followed by putting my money in a savings account
Locoblade has just said to avoid the Cat E1. IMHO consider all types of sevens. I spent allot of time looking for this type of car with a slightly bigger budget than yours and ended up getting a Tiger Cat E1. Yes is is based on a sierra but that is not a bad thing, parts are cheap and readily available if needed. I have had great fun in mine since buying it in October. There are plenty of different types of seven out there just get one that suits you and your budget.
You must remember that on her it is opinions, one person can say "dont buy that it is shite" the other will say "it is great".
The only thing i will say is that allot of people shit on Robin Hood. I avoided them partly because of the build quality and promblems when builders were putting them through the SVA.
My advice, look at the MK, Tiger and other Locost. See which one you like, they all have advantages.
I am very happy with my Tiger and it is great fun. Pic in my profile.
D
You must remember that on her it is opinions, one person can say "dont buy that it is shite" the other will say "it is great".
The only thing i will say is that allot of people shit on Robin Hood. I avoided them partly because of the build quality and promblems when builders were putting them through the SVA.
My advice, look at the MK, Tiger and other Locost. See which one you like, they all have advantages.
I am very happy with my Tiger and it is great fun. Pic in my profile.
D
Sorry Damien, maybe I over emphasised its downfalls a bit by saying its just for show, Im certain you can still have lots of fun in them on the road and it will still run rings around the majority of cars you come across on the road.
I guess my point is that the E1 is very much the bargain basement Tiger with a design thats purely aimed at saving cost rather than any attempt at increasing performance, so with an equivalent engine its never going to perform on a par with some of the other cars available in this price range, either on the straights or in the corners.
I guess my point is that the E1 is very much the bargain basement Tiger with a design thats purely aimed at saving cost rather than any attempt at increasing performance, so with an equivalent engine its never going to perform on a par with some of the other cars available in this price range, either on the straights or in the corners.
Edited by Locoblade on Sunday 4th March 22:22
Been looking round on the net and have seen some very nice cars thinking about the MK Indy now as well as the Tiger cat1, super six if budget allows. Have seen some westfields in my budget but they are quite old. Locoblade said:
Ditto the RH, I think that also uses a lot of the Sierra rear suspension, so are also flawed dynamically and comparatively very heavy. The build quality of factory parts is also generally poor, so ultimate car fit / finish is very reliant on the builder themself putting in a lot of effort.
Certainly the older Robin Hoods (like mine) use most of the Sierra rear suspension, and I would agree that you're not going to get Caterham style handling. However, you need to put things into perspective as even a RH will out-corner most "normal" road cars, and I've found that for fast road use the shortcomings simply aren't a problem. So it really depends on what you want; if you're heavily into track days a RH probably won't fit the bill. If, however, you just want a decent sports car for the road, a well-built RH should still be considered. I find that mine attracts more attention from the general public than many vehicles worth 10 times as much - all of it positive. It's also been totally reliable. Having said that, it'll be up for sale very soon, as I'm smitten with the idea of a Chimaera - I just hope I don't regret it.
Wiz,
My advice is, look at as many different types of cars as possible, speak too the owners, blag a ride in them too, most owners are happy too show off there pride and joy and offer passenger rides, worth going too a couple of shows, unfortunately I believe Harrogate as been cancelled this year, but Newark isn't too far from you ans there will be a broad range of cars on show there in the various owners clubs sections.
Then when you have done all that make your mind up.
Whatever is said elsewhere you will get a much more information on the site I mentioned above, its for you too decide who as rose tinted specs on, sift through the information and discard the bits not relevant, you will also find details of regular local meetings on there, again there will be a wide varied range of cars at these local meetings, I think the Yorkshire one is the second Wednesday of the month and is probably one of the better attended ones, it was the last time I went.
My advice is, look at as many different types of cars as possible, speak too the owners, blag a ride in them too, most owners are happy too show off there pride and joy and offer passenger rides, worth going too a couple of shows, unfortunately I believe Harrogate as been cancelled this year, but Newark isn't too far from you ans there will be a broad range of cars on show there in the various owners clubs sections.
Then when you have done all that make your mind up.
Whatever is said elsewhere you will get a much more information on the site I mentioned above, its for you too decide who as rose tinted specs on, sift through the information and discard the bits not relevant, you will also find details of regular local meetings on there, again there will be a wide varied range of cars at these local meetings, I think the Yorkshire one is the second Wednesday of the month and is probably one of the better attended ones, it was the last time I went.
Mentioning the kit car thing at work someone said the boss has one a lotus 7? and he's thinking of selling, asked him about it and its a fairly old Westie with a lotus 1.6 engine been well put together, regularly seviced and low miles had it about 9 years and not getting enough use so selling at some point. Bringing some pics into work for me tomorrow and can go have a look if i want - sounds very good to me.
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