Kit Cars...... the depreciation game!
Discussion
I spent £15,000 building a car, but consider the money spent and gone since it's my hobby. I could easily have spent the same amount on golf, I would imagine.
However, I am aware that quite a few people are disappointed with the prices being reached by Libras which surely must be *quite* sought after...
Today a guy I know told me he is after less than £5000 for his 1.4 Libra......
However, I am aware that quite a few people are disappointed with the prices being reached by Libras which surely must be *quite* sought after...
Today a guy I know told me he is after less than £5000 for his 1.4 Libra......
That is a bargain if its is a nice one. I am in the same boat with my Libra, not worth selling it. Was planning to build another car next year, but now will be putting a new engine in the Libra instead...... Hopefully nigh-on 300 bhp turbo, 6-speed paddleshift transmission........ not a bike engine either!
Seriously, I am a champion of our great independant car indutry, but in the current climate you must be mad to buid a new car, hassle of SVA, then find out the day after finishing it its worth nowhere near what it cost to build. I was speking to Westfield a while back and they said if you built an XI they will buy it back or find you a buyer at several grand more than it cost to build. Caterham used to do the same. its genius how Caterham keep residuals high for what is no more than a (very) nicely finished Locost with a Rover or Ford engine. But Libras are unfortunately a prime example of it, compared with spending the same (factory built) cost of a new Elise.
I know we can all factor in the fun of the build to offset the loss but unless you plan on keeping the car for a long time, you must really want to build one to actually do it. I would be tempted to buy second hand and spend £4k rebuilding and retrimming / repainting it and still be quids in over a new build, minus the SVA hassle. I think sub £12k builds , like bike engined 7 types are acceptable, but when you spend BIG money, it does seem a bit, well, pointless in the current climate.
Seriously, I am a champion of our great independant car indutry, but in the current climate you must be mad to buid a new car, hassle of SVA, then find out the day after finishing it its worth nowhere near what it cost to build. I was speking to Westfield a while back and they said if you built an XI they will buy it back or find you a buyer at several grand more than it cost to build. Caterham used to do the same. its genius how Caterham keep residuals high for what is no more than a (very) nicely finished Locost with a Rover or Ford engine. But Libras are unfortunately a prime example of it, compared with spending the same (factory built) cost of a new Elise.
I know we can all factor in the fun of the build to offset the loss but unless you plan on keeping the car for a long time, you must really want to build one to actually do it. I would be tempted to buy second hand and spend £4k rebuilding and retrimming / repainting it and still be quids in over a new build, minus the SVA hassle. I think sub £12k builds , like bike engined 7 types are acceptable, but when you spend BIG money, it does seem a bit, well, pointless in the current climate.
Most builders seem to find the build process and satisfaction is more fun than owning and driving the car, hence you see loads for sale with a really low mileage.
I finished the main construction of my Tiger about 6 months ago (more or less) and I've really missed having stuff to build. I'm already tempted to sell it and buy another kit, and the car isn't even road legal yet.
I finished the main construction of my Tiger about 6 months ago (more or less) and I've really missed having stuff to build. I'm already tempted to sell it and buy another kit, and the car isn't even road legal yet.
I think the problem for the Libra is that people 'in the know' about the car are going to be enthusiasts so they will also know about the mainstream competition that the Libra is pitching itself against which are subject to normal market conditions and thus depreciation. In other words there are obvious alternatives to a Libra which people will consider when purchasing.
On the flip side a Cobra is a Cobra, there are no alternatives if a Cobra is what you want other than originals, so you don't tend to lose much. The same goes for many other kits where the only competition is within the industry itself.
My 2p
John
On the flip side a Cobra is a Cobra, there are no alternatives if a Cobra is what you want other than originals, so you don't tend to lose much. The same goes for many other kits where the only competition is within the industry itself.
My 2p
John
jimsupersix said:
Most builders seem to find the build process and satisfaction is more fun than owning and driving the car, hence you see loads for sale with a really low mileage.
I finished the main construction of my Tiger about 6 months ago (more or less) and I've really missed having stuff to build. I'm already tempted to sell it and buy another kit, and the car isn't even road legal yet.
I finished the main construction of my Tiger about 6 months ago (more or less) and I've really missed having stuff to build. I'm already tempted to sell it and buy another kit, and the car isn't even road legal yet.
I'm a serial builder; I'm on my third car (although I do drive the cars for 3 years before moving on to the next one). I know that after this one, I've got a mate's Marcos that needs restoring as my next project (although there's work to be done on the house as well, like finishing a 2nd bathroom I started 2 years ago).I really would like to build a Libra, but the build cost seems pretty steep (I believe around 10k or so).
I would be tempted to buy one if they're for sale at £5k or so, but not having the fun of the build really puts me off - I'd rather buy another Seven-type kit instead of a built car. I suppose I could buy a cheap Libra and then upgrade the engine and whatnot, but it's not the same as taking a bare chassis and adding everything yourself.
I would be tempted to buy one if they're for sale at £5k or so, but not having the fun of the build really puts me off - I'd rather buy another Seven-type kit instead of a built car. I suppose I could buy a cheap Libra and then upgrade the engine and whatnot, but it's not the same as taking a bare chassis and adding everything yourself.
If any serial kit car builders have any spare time on there ahnds this winter, feel free to take my kit apart, beef up the space frame (in other wordsm make a new one with more robust box section) and perhaps turbo charge the 2L engine (or source Renault 21 Turbo engine).
Building a new kit car won't ever be an option for me until I retire. I'm 34 next birthday so a few years to go yet. I've not got enough spare time as it is let alone finding the time to build a car.
Building a new kit car won't ever be an option for me until I retire. I'm 34 next birthday so a few years to go yet. I've not got enough spare time as it is let alone finding the time to build a car.
Furyblade_Lee said:
I know we can all factor in the fun of the build to offset the loss but unless you plan on keeping the car for a long time, you must really want to build one to actually do it. I would be tempted to buy second hand and spend £4k rebuilding and retrimming / repainting it and still be quids in over a new build, minus the SVA hassle. I think sub £12k builds , like bike engined 7 types are acceptable, but when you spend BIG money, it does seem a bit, well, pointless in the current climate.
i spent ca 25k, now its worth less than a tenth of that. the depreciation doesnt worry me, i knew i'd be keeping it till it or i died
jimsupersix said:
I really would like to build a Libra, but the build cost seems pretty steep (I believe around 10k or so).
You'd be lucky! Mine was a decent spec VVC and I reckon on about £17-18k in the end, that included a year of collecting bargains... £10k wouldn't even get you the kit...
Rich
M400 NBL said:
Building a new kit car won't ever be an option for me until I retire. I'm 34 next birthday so a few years to go yet. I've not got enough spare time as it is let alone finding the time to build a car.
Do a scratch build then!
My Dad's cost £2.5k to build. It was built to a high standard, won a show award so we aren't talking cack job here, leather & walnut etc (it's an old style roadster).
Just undergoing a rebuild after 13 years on the road, mainly to iron out all those niggles he wasn't happy with after the first build (only it seems to have progressed somewhat into some major changes!
OK the 2.5k might have been a long time ago, but then all the expensive stuff can now be had considerably cheaper - I reckon I could build one near identical for the same money.
Edited by Davi on Friday 4th May 09:18
Almost all cars have massive depreciation but there are exceptions and in the kitcar world its got to be the Stratos rep The last 1 i owned (registered as 81 montecarlo) built in 1985 i got £17359 off the 1st man to view Last year a dog unfinished car q reg still in gelcoat with incorrect interior cracked screen and fitted with non running 1600 beta made close to 8k ive looked 4 a cheap one for 2 yrs and couldnt find 1 so i created a Rally 037 rep www.rallye037replica.com heres hoping my kit holds its money like its older brother its certainly unusual (only 1 completed ) kits are moving well now though around the world
If you want to get (most of) your money out then you need to build a really close replica of something nice.
The best one is the Westfield XI, as the mechanical bits are dirt cheap and the car is correspondingly cheap to build, but I'm not convinced that it would be straightforward to SVA.
I built a pre-lit ally bodied Westfield Seven in 1986 and got almost all my money out of it.
In 2000 I built a new Caterham and only lost a couple of grand.
But having spent a few hundred quid and the best part of a day getting the Caterham SVA'd, it is not a process I would like to repeat.
And as much as I enjoyed building the cars, the hassle of the SVA, the local VRO inspection and the general buggering about really puts me off doing it again.
These days I would be more tempted to restore a Lotus Seven or a knackered baby Elan.
The best one is the Westfield XI, as the mechanical bits are dirt cheap and the car is correspondingly cheap to build, but I'm not convinced that it would be straightforward to SVA.
I built a pre-lit ally bodied Westfield Seven in 1986 and got almost all my money out of it.
In 2000 I built a new Caterham and only lost a couple of grand.
But having spent a few hundred quid and the best part of a day getting the Caterham SVA'd, it is not a process I would like to repeat.
And as much as I enjoyed building the cars, the hassle of the SVA, the local VRO inspection and the general buggering about really puts me off doing it again.
These days I would be more tempted to restore a Lotus Seven or a knackered baby Elan.
I doubt any kit type car holds it's value better than a beach buggy.
I sold mine to my cousin for more than I paid, although admittedly I did spend a few quid on the stereo.Had I sold it privately (my cousin had wanted it for years so I sold it to him cheap knowing I could borrow it) i'd have easily doubled my money...and that's after 5 years.
It's in the middle of a respray so pictures will be posted when it's finished.
I sold mine to my cousin for more than I paid, although admittedly I did spend a few quid on the stereo.Had I sold it privately (my cousin had wanted it for years so I sold it to him cheap knowing I could borrow it) i'd have easily doubled my money...and that's after 5 years.
It's in the middle of a respray so pictures will be posted when it's finished.
Further to the car I mentioned in this thread.....
Here's a 1.4 Libra with a starting price of £2.5K
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1400-Rover-K-series-Manual-G...
Looks quite nice, although the carpet situation is a bit odd....
Here's a 1.4 Libra with a starting price of £2.5K
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1400-Rover-K-series-Manual-G...
Looks quite nice, although the carpet situation is a bit odd....
Ferg said:
Further to the car I mentioned in this thread.....
Here's a 1.4 Libra with a starting price of £2.5K
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1400-Rover-K-series-Manual-G...
Looks quite nice, although the carpet situation is a bit odd....
rather tempting isn't it...Here's a 1.4 Libra with a starting price of £2.5K
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1400-Rover-K-series-Manual-G...
Looks quite nice, although the carpet situation is a bit odd....
I have built a few Westfields over the years and have always made money. The trick is to buy as much as you can from other scources and save the mark up. for example the rad from Westfield was £125ish £35 from a local factor it all adds up. But my keeper car has all the bells and whistles and is worth to me £15k all day long but would break for more than it would sell as a whole car unless someone wants it that bad.
i belong more to the drivers than to the builders.
from my point of view it never makes sense to built-up a kitcar yourself.
(and i wouldnt buy nor built such an "libra"..would be the same as throwing my money out the window...sorry to say that...as always: COMADIS is known for his politeness...)
e.g.: bought a sylva a few times ago for 4000,-pound. only the engine in its built-state of tuning would cost me around 1000,-pound, wheels and tyres another 400,-. other donor parts another 400,-. plus kit, pls..plus..plus
a friend bought a nice westfield-seven 1 year ago. westfield independant rear suspension (uniball), 4 spoke revo´s and a freshly built up and modified lotus twincam big valve. full weather gear.
the engine alone would be worth 1500-2000...guess what we have paid?
4000,-...compared to this my sylva was 1000,- too expensive
from my point of view it never makes sense to built-up a kitcar yourself.
(and i wouldnt buy nor built such an "libra"..would be the same as throwing my money out the window...sorry to say that...as always: COMADIS is known for his politeness...)
e.g.: bought a sylva a few times ago for 4000,-pound. only the engine in its built-state of tuning would cost me around 1000,-pound, wheels and tyres another 400,-. other donor parts another 400,-. plus kit, pls..plus..plus
a friend bought a nice westfield-seven 1 year ago. westfield independant rear suspension (uniball), 4 spoke revo´s and a freshly built up and modified lotus twincam big valve. full weather gear.
the engine alone would be worth 1500-2000...guess what we have paid?
4000,-...compared to this my sylva was 1000,- too expensive
Edited by Comadis on Thursday 21st February 20:37
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