1st kit car/insurance/young driver

[minipower]

Hi
I've been looking for a car to buy and have looked at everything from a fast road mini to a mx5. As Im 19 all of them have put me out of budget in terms of insurance. This then led me to looking at kit cars as Ive heard insurance can be a lot cheaper. Got some quotes and even for a Caterham the insurance is down to £1600 which out of everything is a decent amount cheaper.
My budget is £3-4K for the car and then just over a thousand for insurance. This rules out purchasing a caterham but Ive found it may just be enough to buy a Westfield, a Tiger or a Sylva. Question is would insurance be cheaper for these?

Also I can purchase a near complete car as I have the summer off so would be able to have time to finish it. Where is the best place to look for unfinished kits as my own searches have found relatively little?

Last thing, as owners of Sevens do you think I would be better off staying away from one due to age and lack of experience in terms of driving (fine with mechanics so I dont have worries about unreliabilty and also Ill still have my mini)?

Thanks to any help suggested.

[johnnymack]

If I were you, I'd go for something with a crossflow or zetec engine that isn't too wild for starters. Kit cars feel fast anyway because you're so low to the deck. At 19, (I'm 57 going on 20 now!)I thought I could drive anything - and usually did - but as often as not too much power got me into all sorts of trouble. Seven-style cars can be great fun but are a bit of a handful even for experienced drivers. Try some track days, autotests, sprints or hillclimbs to get the feel of the car before attempting heroics on the road. As far as insurance goes, there are various limited mileage deals available which can be quite reasonable, but your age is bound to go against you. Sorry if I sound like an old bore, but bear in mind that you're not immortal. Too many young lads have been killed or seriously hurt overcooking it. At least you're not looking for ICE and tinted windows! Good luck, and enjoy your first kit car!

[minipower]

Cheers for the info. Thats pretty much all that I needed to know.
The hillclimb, trackdaying sounds interesting. Ill probably depending on price see about signing up at one of the schools to learn more about where my limits are and hopefully improve my skills (or lack of).

[johnnymack]

Try racecarsdirect.com for unfinished projects. Kit Car and Which Kit magazines also carry plenty of cheap examples. Alternatively, you can probably pick up a pretty good new kit minus engine from Tiger or MK for well within your budget. Kent crossflows are cheap, bomb proof blocks and with a couple of 40s and fast road cam can give you 130+ bhp. When you get tired of that, a bike-engine is a cheap way of getting BIG horsepower, but tend to be a bit road-unfriendly. Good luck.

[benyimin]

Also try footman-james for insurance, they were loads cheaper than anyone else when i had to get my westfield insured - and be CAREFUL! not the kind of car you want to hit anything in!

[DamienCBR]

benyimin said:

Also try footman-james for insurance, they were loads cheaper than anyone else when i had to get my westfield insured - and be CAREFUL! not the kind of car you want to hit anything in!

Yep footman james were the best for me!

D

[NormanD]

Try www.msminsurance.co.uk or ring 01279 870535

Very personal, there own business, I've had some VERRY good rates from them

Edited by NormanD on Wednesday 9th May 17:58

[Ben_k3]

Footman james where the best for when i was 17 and is only £660 a year at 18 for a 1400 gtm k3.But i think they have changed it to only insure over 21's unless your a existing customer so worth checking it out before you get the car.

[minipower]

Thanks for all the insurance info as that was what I was most wary of.
Do insurance companies have a dislike to full rollcages in sevens as the same with having a cage in any car, or do they see it different?
The idea of buying a near complete one and then finishing it seems more and more appealing. Ill probably ring Tiger or some of the other kit companies and ask them about what they could offer me given my budget.

[chris71]

benyimin said:

Also try footman-james for insurance, they were loads cheaper than anyone else when i had to get my westfield insured - and be CAREFUL! not the kind of car you want to hit anything in!

I second that. I insured my Quantum for £350 a year at 19.

And because they have a flat rate scheme I could have had a 1.6 Caterham for the same premium.

Can't recommend them highly enough and kits are the best way to get a real sportscar on the road at that sort of age.

DO IT.

DO IT NOW.

[JenkinsComp]

I always paid less than £300 per year for my Sylva Leader and Fury, which I had from the age of 21 and used as my only road cars for 10 years or so.
Get a limited mileage policy, keep it off the road and enjoy! I would go to Adrian Flux one year, then swap to Osbornes the next to always get a new customer discount! Works a treat.

A Sylva Striker or Fury with a K series or Zetec is ideal and great for learning how to drive properly in.
Personally speaking, after moving from a 1700 Super Sprint crossflow to a Vauxhall XE 2 litre 16v, there is no way I would go back to such archaic engines. Modern small engines are miles more reliable, powerful, cleaner and less juicy.

Edited by JenkinsComp on Friday 11th May 21:41

[stevebubs]

If you're up for a seven as a daily driver then great. If not, it may be worth considering other kit options such as GTM coupe / K3...

[stevebubs]

minipower said:

Thanks for all the insurance info as that was what I was most wary of.
Do insurance companies have a dislike to full rollcages in sevens as the same with having a cage in any car, or do they see it different?
The idea of buying a near complete one and then finishing it seems more and more appealing. Ill probably ring Tiger or some of the other kit companies and ask them about what they could offer me given my budget.

Keep an eye on fleabay and findit - far better source of incomplete projects.

[minipower]

JenkinsComp said:

A Sylva Striker or Fury with a K series or Zetec is ideal and great for learning how to drive properly in.
Personally speaking, after moving from a 1700 Super Sprint crossflow to a Vauxhall XE 2 litre 16v, there is no way I would go back to such archaic engines. Modern small engines are miles more reliable, powerful, cleaner and less juicy.

Trouble is with my budget Ill probably have to end up with a 1700 unless I can get hold of a 2litre lump cheap and buy a kit minus the engine. This may lead into even more troubles though as the insurance would most likely go up.

[JenkinsComp]

I have found that alot of insurance companies only ask what capacity the engine is, not which engine it is!
Hence whether you use a stock 2 litre Pinto or chipped 2 litre XE turbo it can be the same cost...

[Damiencbr]

If it is just one engine size and you want a part built one.

www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=66623

D

[chris71]

stevebubs said:

If you're up for a seven as a daily driver then great. If not, it may be worth considering other kit options such as GTM coupe / K3...

Good call. Very tempted by a K3. Heard mixed reviews on the handling, but still the idea of a reliable, every day, mid engined, RWD coupe for £3k kind of appeals. This is one of the earlier (mini based) coupes, but still gives you an idea - www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/136282.htm

If you fancy a bit more reliability, why not consider one of these,

[shameless plug] www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/108092.htm [/shameless plug]

Joking aside, they can be very good daily drivers and the coupes are even more practical. The down side is that they are FWD, but it's the most neutral handling scrabbler I've driven.

Going back to insurance, I'd use caution before looking at Adrain Flux, I found them to be a complete pain the arse and cancelled my policy with them as a result.

[minipower]

chris71 said:

stevebubs said:

If you're up for a seven as a daily driver then great. If not, it may be worth considering other kit options such as GTM coupe / K3...

Good call. Very tempted by a K3. Heard mixed reviews on the handling, but still the idea of a reliable, every day, mid engined, RWD coupe for £3k kind of appeals. This is one of the earlier (mini based) coupes, but still gives you an idea - www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/136282.htm

If you fancy a bit more reliability, why not consider one of these,

[shameless plug] www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/108092.htm [/shameless plug]

Joking aside, they can be very good daily drivers and the coupes are even more practical. The down side is that they are FWD, but it's the most neutral handling scrabbler I've driven.

Going back to insurance, I'd use caution before looking at Adrain Flux, I found them to be a complete pain the arse and cancelled my policy with them as a result.

The K3 was the first kit I looked at before becoming interested in Seven replicas. I will have my mini for commuting so Im not looking for practicality as it will be a weekend car.
If I had to cut my budget though, they do look very tempting for a RWD car.

Im probably going to try and get over to the Brands Hatch kit car event as I think it will be a good oppurtunity to see some of the cars up close and ask some questions.

Edited by minipower on Monday 14th May 15:02

[chris71]

Ah, well if you're a mini enthusiast (come to think of it the name does kind of give it away!) a Grand Touring Mini (GTM) would be ideal! K3 is of course metro based, but personally I could forgive it that for that cracking fuel injected K-series.

The midas is also mini based (looks rather like a Mini Marcos) but is FWD and less practical, so I really would go for a Quantum over one of those. Probably wouldn't get either as a second car....

Which is the crux. TBH if you have a garage and can elect to take your mini if it's pissing down, I'd get the lariest, silliest, completely open 'fun' car you can.

A few ideas...

www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/158903.htm
www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/159930.htm
www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/154032.htm
www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/158886.htm

[minipower]

The Tiger looks good other than its been sold. My budget could probably go to about £4500 max so I most likely will be outside of getting a Westfield.
Reading through some of the other topics Ive come to the impression that I should stay away from Robin Hoods if I wanted to take the car on the track etc.
Are tiger much better in terms of being both good on the road and the track?