Any Westie XI info?

[Foolish Dave]

I've used Westie's site to ask for more info on the XI, but not heard anything back yet (though I will email directly later then ring).

We both really like the style of the XI and Slamm want's to get her hands dirty and know how cars work properly before starting racing (as we'll be the mechanics and pit crew too), so decided to make a kit then take it up some hills before racing Proper.

BUT... I'm not sure Westie even sell the kits for these anymore. I know they re-introduced them a couple of years back, but I have no idea if there was a limited run, or enough interest to keep selling them?

[.Adam.]

You can still buy the kit from Westfield, as far as I'm aware. If you haven't already, have a look over on the WSCC forum, you should get all your Westie related questions answered.

[Ferg]

I've got a brochure I picked up at Stoneleigh. Mind you it might have been 20 years ago...





The prices look quite good.

[Sam_68]

There's a Yahoo group for Eleven owners and builders that's well worth joining if you are serious.

The car is certainly still available - they're marketing a special 'Jubilee' edition quite heavily at the moment. Don't know what the current policy is, but before Chris Smith sold up, they were quite happy to allow test drives (brilliant steering feel, but beware the limited steering lock and dismally bad brakes!) and would sell you a build manual for a few quid.

IIRC, the US distributor has a downloadable build manual on their website that is more comprehensive than the UK version, but doesn't cover the dodges required to get the car through SVA... when I looked at it when first re-launched, they were suggesting that it had to be SVA'd with no doors or screens fitted and with temporary wing mirrors, steering wheel and headlamp pods to get it passed the regs, which sounded a bit Heath Robinson - not to mention legally questionable in terms of insurance validity when you have made the post-SVA modifications.

Edited to add: Link to US Distributor's website here, but it seems to have been updated and no downloadable build manual any more

Still lots of good info and links, though.

Edited to fix faulty link

Edited by Sam_68 on Tuesday 3rd July 12:34

[Pat H]

Foolish Dave said:

I'm not sure Westie even sell the kits for these anymore.

Yep, you can still get one.

But the SVA is a problem. The Westfield approach of fitting temporary headlamp pods, leaving off the screen and doors seems to work at their local testing station, but it didn't fill me with confidence.

The other small issue is the cost.

The kit is about £9500 and you still need to source all the oily bits. I am sure that you will need to spend £13000 to get one finished to a satisfactory standard.

I drove one last year. Slow, no grip and no brakes, but it was a fantastic machine and I very nearly bought one.

Their current yellow demonstrator is really well finished and the gelcoat was to a very high standard. I couldn't believe it wasn't painted.

But after I sat down and did the sums, I decided to put a deposit down with Caterham.

[Sam_68]

Pat H said:

Slow, no grip and no brakes, but it was a fantastic machine...

Sounds crazy, but true. The performance is dismal compared to most modern kit car, but it really is a lovely thing to drive.

Pat H said:

Their current yellow demonstrator is really well finished and the gelcoat was to a very high standard. I couldn't believe it wasn't painted.

Do you know if they've re-done their moulds, Pat?

When I drove it (just after it had first been re-launched), they were quite candid about he fact that they were using the old, very tired moulds. The bodywork as supplied came with all sorts of star cracks and imperfections moulded-in and would have required a lot of work to make it presentable. This was the main reason I didn't buy one - I don't mind mechanical work, but the endless prep required before painting a bad fibreglass moulding is just too much of a pain in the ass!

How do they deal with the holes for mounting the temporary headlamp pods and wing mirrors, if it's in gelcoat? Presumably these have to be filled afterwards and the repair would be obvious unless painted over?

Edited by Sam_68 on Friday 29th June 12:32

[Pat H]

Sam_68 said:

Do you know if they've re-done their moulds, Pat?

When I drove it they were quite candid about he fact that they were using the old, very tired moulds.

How do they deal with the holes for mounting the temporary headlamp pods and wing mirrors, if it's in gelcoat? Presumably these have to be filled afterwards and the repair would be obvious unless painted over?

Yep, the moulds must have been redone.

The car I drove a couple of years ago was green and was pretty rough. Their new yellow demonstrator is beautifully finished.

Dunno how they sort out the SVA, but the chap I spoke to at Stoneleigh a couple of months ago suggested that they have a pretty good relationship with their local tester.

I was advised that the completed car ought to be taken back to Dudley to let them sort out the SVA. Having seen how incredibly thorough the Manchester SVA test on my last Caterham was, I think that it would be a lot easier just to let Westfield sort it out.

[conspiracy theory]

I reckon that they fit a weird SVA compliant bonnet with frog eyes grafted on to it, then replace your beautiful XI bonnet after the test...

[/conspiracy theory]

Dammit, all this talk of XIs has got me doubting my decision to get another Seven...

[Roman]

How about a GTS Challenger instead? Looks like excellent value:

http://ekmpowershop5.com/ekmps/shops/gtstuning/ind...

[Sam_68]

Roman said:

a GTS Challenger... looks like excellent value

That's because it also looks like a shed!

Frank Costin must be spinning in his grave...

[Kirsty5150]

I've recently looked into gettign one of these as well. The kit is £9K, and as said you then need all the oily bits. As for the SVA the light pods attach in the same places as the normal light housing does, They also advise you to leave the aeroscreen off. Give them a ring, they quite happily told me all this over the phone. I reckon about £12k for a kit built to a good standard.

[Foolish Dave]

Cool - we'l give them a call - see what disc brakes we can fit under the minilites and see if we can get hub carriers to match

9k for this kit is a bit steep though.

[Sam_68]

To be fair, it's a reasonably comprehensive kit and a lot of the ally panelling is already done. Also, it might comfort you to know that values of first generation cars have held up very well. I haven't seen any second generation cars for sale yet, but provided not too many are built, residuals ought to be similarly good.

Suggest you try talking to Frontline Spridgets about braking options.

Mind you - educated guesswork, 'cos I haven't got so far as to unearth the detailed information to prove it - but I suspect that the lousy brakes on Westfield's demonstrator might be nothing more than master cylinder sizes. One of the modifications between the original generation cars and the 'Series II' has been to standardise on the pedal box from Westfield's SE/SEi range, presumably for convenience in providing an SVA friendly dual circuit tandem master cylinder. The brakes work if you push hard enough, and the pedal was rock solid, so I'd guess that an appropriately sized single-circuit master cylinder (installed post SVA, of course!) might solve the problem.

If the moulds have been redone as Pat suggests, I might take another serious look myself.

[Kirsty5150]

I agree, £9K for a kit does seem a bit steep, but you do get everything in that price. I've heard they have new moulds, or they may have just spent a lot of time/money sorting the bodywork on the demo car. That shell has to be a fair whack of the price, and the bottom half of the panelling is done, and the interior fitted IIRC. You just need the engine, gearbox, uprights and brakes, axle and the steering rack, I think. So not really all that much really. Well, not too much to stop me saving up for one anyways!

[Foolish Dave]

Sent an email and I'll await a response before calling them (if I can get a number from anywhere!)

There's an interesting thread on the Westie club site about possible oily bit options as I'm not too happy about getting a classic car to stripdown to get the XI running - it would seem like a waste of the classic. I'd rather get a cheap (and reliable) alternative that still fits under the skin.
Looking at photo's on EVO it looks like there's bags of room, only height at the front may be an issue for modern OHC engines.

Maybe a dry-sumped 1-1.2 ford engine would fit... Anyways, we'll see what they say and see if we get a test drive. I think it's their 25th anniversary this coming weekend, so they may be a bit on the busy side!

Thanks for the pointers.

ETA - the half-built kit is also a big plus for us - we want to use it as well as build it! Just need to find out what purchase options they do, or if you have to buy everything at once!

Edited by Foolish Dave on Monday 2nd July 13:56

[Snake the Sniper]

I think nay OHC/DOHC engine will struggle to fit to be honest, as the A series isn't that tall. I know what you mean about destroying a classic to build a kit car/replica though, that's why I'm looking for either a properly shafted body and chassis with a mostly decent engine, or try and get the bits off ebay, breakers yards etc.
Oh, PS, this is Mr Kirtsy5150.

[Sam_68]

Snake the Sniper said:

I think any OHC/DOHC engine will struggle to fit to be honest

Yep, bonnet clearance is definitely an issue. Even the Crossflow engine needed bonnet mods on first generation cars. There was certainly one car fitted with a dry sumped Lotus Twin Cam under the standard bonnet line, though, so if you're prepared to go to the expense of dry sumping, it might widen your options.

[.Adam.]

How about a K-series, don't know if it fits in an XI, but you can get kits to fit them in Midgets, so might be a reasonably easy install?

[fuoriserie]

something different but interesting...

http://www.kokopelliauto.com/

[Foolish Dave]

fuoriserie said:

something different but interesting...

http://www.kokopelliauto.com/

Looks pretty good, but with people in it it look a much bigger car than the Westie XI.
BUT - I'm not sure I like the olution they have used with the petrol tank and having a usable boot!
And it may be a tad hard getting a test drive in the UK

Sam_68 - the link you give near the top is for this thread?!?

.Adam. - I think the K was tabled on the WSCC (WSSC?) thread about XI engine options, but the OHC head may still make it too tall! I need to see the car in the flesh and take some measurements to compare to some engine list.

ETA - I am actually thinking about a 2-stroke V4 skidoo engine from the US, but I doubt the SO will want it, and I'm not sure about leaving it for a month at a time between being turned over

Edited by Foolish Dave on Tuesday 3rd July 08:46

[Sam_68]

Foolish Dave said:

Sam_68 - the link you give near the top is for this thread?!?

Sorry! Works better if I give it a URL, doesn't it? Should work now.

Foolish Dave said:

ETA - I am actually thinking about a 2-stroke V4 skidoo engine from the US, but I doubt the SO will want it, and I'm not sure about leaving it for a month at a time between being turned over

I was thinking of using a Mazda rotary; no bonnet clearance problems, but the exhaust exits on the other side, so the sills (which come pre-fitted by the factory) would need to be re-fabricated.The other potential problem with alternative engines is that the Midget axle isn't very strong, though you can get beefed-up halfshafts etc. for it.