Living with a BEC?
Discussion
hi everyone, I have been going thought the previous threads but could not find what I was looking for. I am looking at buying a kit car in the near future and for the purposes of this note I am looking at the two fundemental types, the BEC and the CEC.
I understand most of the pro's of each, but what I have not got to grips yet are the main cons for each.
So for those living with a BEC, what is it like on a day to day basis? how long should an engine last? clutch? do both BEC and CEC require significant maintenance etc etc.
I understand most of the pro's of each, but what I have not got to grips yet are the main cons for each.
So for those living with a BEC, what is it like on a day to day basis? how long should an engine last? clutch? do both BEC and CEC require significant maintenance etc etc.
Some will say you cant live with one some will say you can.
I fall into the "can" group, I have none of the difficulties town driving that people talk about, been to France two up with all the gear no problems, I guess it down to what you want the car for, if its a fun car that comes out on "sunny" (what are those)days then it as to BEC every time for me.
I'm 10k miles into this engine, its on its second clutch (30 min job)and it just sits there begging me to give it more. Maintenance wise aside oil changes I have never put a spanner on the engine, these engines have engineering and reliability built into them that Henry ford and the like can only dream about, the free six speed sequential box and soundtrack help too.
OK I'm biased and admit it, BEC every time for a fun Sunday/track day car.
I fall into the "can" group, I have none of the difficulties town driving that people talk about, been to France two up with all the gear no problems, I guess it down to what you want the car for, if its a fun car that comes out on "sunny" (what are those)days then it as to BEC every time for me.
I'm 10k miles into this engine, its on its second clutch (30 min job)and it just sits there begging me to give it more. Maintenance wise aside oil changes I have never put a spanner on the engine, these engines have engineering and reliability built into them that Henry ford and the like can only dream about, the free six speed sequential box and soundtrack help too.
OK I'm biased and admit it, BEC every time for a fun Sunday/track day car.
Im am with Jon. Most people who knock them have never had one, for me if I going to drive a car with no windows, doors or roof dressed as a biker then then high revving engine is hardly an issue. Bus as they are so smooth, revs are just a higher number on the dashboard. Maintainance cheap and a doddle, car fast as hell. In fact, I am selling my "sensible" GTM Libra so I can get another, total adrenalin rush that is badly missed! But it changes the whole character of the car, so try to get along to a meet and have a ride in one.
No problem, as said above they do urge you on a bit, very eager engines but also tractable and smooth, not cammy like some higher power car engines. People often think lack of torque is a problem but they obviously don't understand how gears work 
A BEC is a great form of kit car, very easy to work on, probably need more frequent oil changes than car engines because they rev more and the clutch is wet but apart from that there's absolutely no reason not to use it like you would a car engined kit car.
You just need to know what you want from the car, different characters suit different people at different times. I'd quite like a fat batsrad Cobra V8 with a gurgly 8 litre V8 along with my BEC but neither would be any better than the other depending on my mood.
A BEC is a great form of kit car, very easy to work on, probably need more frequent oil changes than car engines because they rev more and the clutch is wet but apart from that there's absolutely no reason not to use it like you would a car engined kit car.
You just need to know what you want from the car, different characters suit different people at different times. I'd quite like a fat batsrad Cobra V8 with a gurgly 8 litre V8 along with my BEC but neither would be any better than the other depending on my mood.
There are big differences between a BEC and a CEC but perhaps the basic configuration of the car is as much of an issue. I went down the R1 Fury route with no doors, no windscreen, etc. and this has a big impact on the whole get in and drive experience. It's not really a car you can just get in and go, not least because the 6-point harnesses take a while to do up. It's a third car and designed for fun, with no thoughts to practicality.
Apart from the maintenance there are a few other considerations with bike engines. They do have more torque than people would have you believe but they are not really tractable like a car engine at very low revs. My Fury R1 accelerates better from 3000rpm than my Lotus ever did and when the Elise would be running out of puff at 6500rpm, my Fury is just breaking into the start of the real power band.
They vibrate a lot more and they are noisy, especially at high revs. Personally, I love the noise but I know it is not everyone's taste.
Gear changes are different, because you have a sequential gearbox. Bike engines can be a bit temperamental when going through neutral and I struggle to drive as smoothly as my other cars at low speeds. You get a nice clunk when you select first too. It can feel agricultural but it is wonderfully direct.
I can't really comment on reliability and durability but I've had no problems yet. I'm safe in the knowledge that repalcing the whole engine/gearbox is going to be a realtively cheap process should I ever need to do it.
The plus point with the bike engine is the performance and handling benefits. My car is about 430Kg and the light weight shows. It is more involving than my old Lotus Elise and the handling is better with much more grip, more neutral characteristics and more involvement. This is largely down to a better weight distribution and a lower center of gravity.
The acceleration is orders of magnitudes better and this is the main plus point of a BEC. It's totally mad. You would need serious horsepower to catch me in my Fury R1. The power to weight ratio is appraoching 400bhp/ton.
Insurance also seems ridiculously cheap for a car with this kind of performance and road tax is cheaper because it is 998cc.
Apart from the maintenance there are a few other considerations with bike engines. They do have more torque than people would have you believe but they are not really tractable like a car engine at very low revs. My Fury R1 accelerates better from 3000rpm than my Lotus ever did and when the Elise would be running out of puff at 6500rpm, my Fury is just breaking into the start of the real power band.
They vibrate a lot more and they are noisy, especially at high revs. Personally, I love the noise but I know it is not everyone's taste.
Gear changes are different, because you have a sequential gearbox. Bike engines can be a bit temperamental when going through neutral and I struggle to drive as smoothly as my other cars at low speeds. You get a nice clunk when you select first too. It can feel agricultural but it is wonderfully direct.
I can't really comment on reliability and durability but I've had no problems yet. I'm safe in the knowledge that repalcing the whole engine/gearbox is going to be a realtively cheap process should I ever need to do it.
The plus point with the bike engine is the performance and handling benefits. My car is about 430Kg and the light weight shows. It is more involving than my old Lotus Elise and the handling is better with much more grip, more neutral characteristics and more involvement. This is largely down to a better weight distribution and a lower center of gravity.
The acceleration is orders of magnitudes better and this is the main plus point of a BEC. It's totally mad. You would need serious horsepower to catch me in my Fury R1. The power to weight ratio is appraoching 400bhp/ton.
Insurance also seems ridiculously cheap for a car with this kind of performance and road tax is cheaper because it is 998cc.
Thanks for the replies folks, keep them coming.
Are the BEC's stupidly loud, I have a RX7 at the moment and neighbours are used to it now (as it is relatively quiet), but I would not want to get somthing that set car alarms off etc etc.
Are they only really fair weather cars or do any of you use them daily?
Are the BEC's stupidly loud, I have a RX7 at the moment and neighbours are used to it now (as it is relatively quiet), but I would not want to get somthing that set car alarms off etc etc.
Are they only really fair weather cars or do any of you use them daily?
Believe it or not, drive it normally and they are as loud as the motorbike that donated its organs.
But factor in banging off 12,000rpm several times in a couple of hundred yards, and a bit of tyre screaming as you leave two dirty black lines down the road, then that is noise a bike could never create. In mine the induction noise was louder than the exhaust, but a clever air box can reduce that.
But factor in banging off 12,000rpm several times in a couple of hundred yards, and a bit of tyre screaming as you leave two dirty black lines down the road, then that is noise a bike could never create. In mine the induction noise was louder than the exhaust, but a clever air box can reduce that.
I had a megablade for a year. Couldn't live with it. Once the novelty of the bec wore off it, driving it actually began to wear you down. Bec = aeroscreen = fairly impractical at the best of times (even for a se7en type kit car). I am glad I had one if only so I know I wouldn't want one again. Nothing ever broke, nothing ever wore out and it always looked great. But, I think I would have had at least as much fun, far more often in a cec.
You can get a BEC with a windscreen, in that respect they are not any more impractical than an equivalent car engined version. 30kgs of windscreen and wiper motor does not make THAT much difference. Likewise you can get a car engined car with an aeroscreen. The only difference is can you live with the noise, sequential box and potentially no reverse. And the speed. And the fuel economy. And the reliability. You do REALLY need try try one, as you have just read, some people get BEC's and some don't. But it would be boring if we all liked the same thing!
There is a dedicated bike-engined forum somewhere, cannot remember where but I think it used to be on Yahoo Groups or Google Groups???? Do a search, there will definately be someone local to you who will be more than pleased to give you a ride. If you want full weather gear a Westfield or Fury are two options, a Guy called Justin Emery has a gorgeous Green Furyblade with windscreen and roof. And Nitrous.
My BEC has an aeroscreen, but I still have to wear a helmet all the time. It's no real bother at all. The only thing I'd change about mine is the fuel economy. I drive mine quite quickly, and get about 12-15 mpg. I find it very hard to cruise, although it is perfectly doable if your so inclined. I quite like having to wear a helmet in a way, as it makes it fell a bit more special, as you have to prepare to go out for a drive. It also scares the poo out of mates! I've not had a CEC, but I think I'd miss the noise and fury of driving a BEC. There seems to be a lot more going on, but that's probably just me!
Snake, that does sound juicy! You must hammer it all the time? We all used to find that touring, even cruising at 100mph for hours, gave around 30mpg. (3 blade cars and an R1) On track I used to get about 15mpg. I know about scaring from the other side of fence now, last night I had a go in the car I am buying when my Libra sells, an injected R1 Phoenix. Have not been in a BEC on the road for 2 years, and it blew me away. This one had IRS compared to my live axle Fury and the ride was soooo smooth. I did genuinly nearly vomit, this thing just fired us up the road and cornered unbelievably. Need to re-adjust my brain back to BEC mode i think!
It would be fair to say I do have a heavy right boot! Bird's tend to be a bit thirsty anyway in BEC's, but mine may just be set up a bit wrong. Mine's IRS, it's an Mk Indy, and whilst it may not be the best set up it does for me on the road. I do tend to be in 6th inside of 10 seconds or so given a clear stretch of road though, and that's on poor tyres. 
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