avoiding Q plate
Discussion
Hi, I want to eventually put a private plate on my kit once it's finished. On my last kit a few years ago I managed to keep the donors reg but that was by using a single donor in a tiger cat.
This time I'm using the brakes and diff from one car but a big v8 and gearbox from another. How's best to ensure I avoid the Q plate?
I was thinking about informing the DVLA that I've fitted the V8 to the donor, then I am only using the one donor; or how about putting the private plate onto the donor first?
Any advice apprieciated.
Thanks.
This time I'm using the brakes and diff from one car but a big v8 and gearbox from another. How's best to ensure I avoid the Q plate?
I was thinking about informing the DVLA that I've fitted the V8 to the donor, then I am only using the one donor; or how about putting the private plate onto the donor first?
Any advice apprieciated.
Thanks.
You only need "2 major components" from a single donor so you could say you'd used "Engine and transmission" from the car that the engine came out of. Whether or not you use the diff from it is a different matter - technically, you SHOULD but diffs are generally pretty unidentifiable unless you get a DVLA Local Office inspector who is unusually knowledgeable! Most of them are civil servants and have little idea of what's what if it hasn't got a number on. You'll fill in a form stating what bits you used from the donor. What you write on it is up to you!
That should get you (assuming you're buying a body and / or chassis from a kit car manufacturer) an "age related" plate of the same year as the donor that the engine came out of.
You shouldn't be able to keep the donor's actual registration unless you use the original and unmodified chassis / monocoque from the donor - but stranger things have happened!
If you can't convince them that you've used at least TWO major components from the donor, you'll end up with a "Q".
That should get you (assuming you're buying a body and / or chassis from a kit car manufacturer) an "age related" plate of the same year as the donor that the engine came out of.
You shouldn't be able to keep the donor's actual registration unless you use the original and unmodified chassis / monocoque from the donor - but stranger things have happened!
If you can't convince them that you've used at least TWO major components from the donor, you'll end up with a "Q".
mattstead said:
So if I send back my donors log book, to update the engine size and engine number to that of the V8, then I will manage to fit the engine, gearbox, diff, driveshafts, brakes and everything from the donor to the kit. Is it true that different DVLA centres in different parts of the country each work differently when deciding this? Every time I come to a decision on what I'm going to do with mine I read another load of conflicting information as to what is required!!!
Ideally I'd either like as-new or age related that I can switch to private, but from reading others experiences it seems incredibly hit or miss as to what you'll end up with unless you have every single receipt from every nut, bolt, wiper rubber going!
Ideally I'd either like as-new or age related that I can switch to private, but from reading others experiences it seems incredibly hit or miss as to what you'll end up with unless you have every single receipt from every nut, bolt, wiper rubber going!
While the DVLA work on engine numbers alone so don't know if the engine came out of a Sierra or a Chevy, some area's require a police inspection to ensure that the chassis number is correctly marked on a non removable section of the car, during this inspection they also check the identity and origin of all the major components.
In East Yorkshire ALL components have to come from the same donor, if not you get a Q, My dad's Spartan did not have an engine number as the Donor block was a Ford Factory Re-con = Q Plate, My Robin Hood had the Donor engine but the engine number was wrong by one digit = Q Plate. You could argue that this does not follow the points system, but I always find that arguments with the Police are best avoided at all costs.
Yes Officer, a Q plate it is then....
In East Yorkshire ALL components have to come from the same donor, if not you get a Q, My dad's Spartan did not have an engine number as the Donor block was a Ford Factory Re-con = Q Plate, My Robin Hood had the Donor engine but the engine number was wrong by one digit = Q Plate. You could argue that this does not follow the points system, but I always find that arguments with the Police are best avoided at all costs.
Yes Officer, a Q plate it is then....
The "points" system has been dead for a long time now - best part of 10 years!
DVLA's policy on this is set out in their "INF 26" leaflet. There's a scan of one somewhere on the totalkitcar website - it spells out what the Local Offices are SUPPOSED to do. Unfortunately, as has been said, some of them tend to make up the rules as they go along! If you get a decision from a Local Office that you disagree with, CHALLENGE IT! They end up going to their internal "help desk" in Swansea (I think it's called the "Local Office Support Unit" or something like that) who shoudl advise them of the correct procedure.
The only component they can really check against any document is the engine because it's number is on the V5. By all means send off the V5 to get the engine number and capacity changed but BE WARNED! They reserve the right to come out and inspect any vehicle for which an engine number change has been requested. They're quite used to doing this because of unscrupulous people claiming that they have a smaller engine than originally fitted to get their road tax down!
DVLA's policy on this is set out in their "INF 26" leaflet. There's a scan of one somewhere on the totalkitcar website - it spells out what the Local Offices are SUPPOSED to do. Unfortunately, as has been said, some of them tend to make up the rules as they go along! If you get a decision from a Local Office that you disagree with, CHALLENGE IT! They end up going to their internal "help desk" in Swansea (I think it's called the "Local Office Support Unit" or something like that) who shoudl advise them of the correct procedure.
The only component they can really check against any document is the engine because it's number is on the V5. By all means send off the V5 to get the engine number and capacity changed but BE WARNED! They reserve the right to come out and inspect any vehicle for which an engine number change has been requested. They're quite used to doing this because of unscrupulous people claiming that they have a smaller engine than originally fitted to get their road tax down!
The DVLA website has all you need to know.
Registering a rebuilt vehicle, kit car and kit conversion
Registering a radically altered vehicle
Registering a rebuilt vehicle, kit car and kit conversion
Registering a radically altered vehicle
mattstead said:
I'm using the brakes and diff from one car but a big v8 and gearbox from another.
This will mean a Q plate is on the cards. Use new brakes and diff to avoid Q plate.Edited by FlossyThePig on Thursday 2nd August 07:44
Some people here are not paying attention here. Misinformation city or what???
"This will mean a Q plate is on the cards. Use new brakes and diff to avoid Q plate."
WRONG! New will not help, not unless everything else bar one is new. See below.
Brakes don't count, but the stub axle they are attached to do count as "Axles"
Here is the form that determins whether you get an age related/new/Q
http://www.woodfield5.demon.co.uk/docsextra/x229v6...
Ignore the details listed on this one, I just Googled it.
If all but one of the items on this list is new and the remaining item is reconditioned to "As new" std then you get a new reg.
If 2 or more of the items have come from one donor vehicle then and age related reg will be issued.(Based on the age of that donor)
If less than 2 of the listed items have come from a single donor vehicle then the car will be issued with a "Q".
You only need to supply receipts for the 6 items on the lest, not every nut and bolt as mentioned above.
That is is, job done Not "Ooh my dad's car was different blah, blah, blah".
Times have changed and this is the deal nowadays and as said above has been for 10 years or so (Since the introduction of the SVA test).
Original poster.
If you are using the axles and steering mechanism off one donor vehicle then you are sorted. Age related it is.
Or you could used the car that the engine and gearbox came from as the donor car.
Getting all complicated and pickey about the differential will just confuse things. Treat this as axle parts.
Tell me what you are building Mattstead and where the 6 items on the list have come from and I'll tell you what to do.
"This will mean a Q plate is on the cards. Use new brakes and diff to avoid Q plate."
WRONG! New will not help, not unless everything else bar one is new. See below.
Brakes don't count, but the stub axle they are attached to do count as "Axles"
Here is the form that determins whether you get an age related/new/Q
http://www.woodfield5.demon.co.uk/docsextra/x229v6...
Ignore the details listed on this one, I just Googled it.
If all but one of the items on this list is new and the remaining item is reconditioned to "As new" std then you get a new reg.
If 2 or more of the items have come from one donor vehicle then and age related reg will be issued.(Based on the age of that donor)
If less than 2 of the listed items have come from a single donor vehicle then the car will be issued with a "Q".
You only need to supply receipts for the 6 items on the lest, not every nut and bolt as mentioned above.
That is is, job done Not "Ooh my dad's car was different blah, blah, blah".
Times have changed and this is the deal nowadays and as said above has been for 10 years or so (Since the introduction of the SVA test).
Original poster.
If you are using the axles and steering mechanism off one donor vehicle then you are sorted. Age related it is.
Or you could used the car that the engine and gearbox came from as the donor car.
Getting all complicated and pickey about the differential will just confuse things. Treat this as axle parts.
Tell me what you are building Mattstead and where the 6 items on the list have come from and I'll tell you what to do.
Edited by Dave Dax builder on Thursday 2nd August 09:13
OK fair point or not as the case should be !
Maybe My info was a bit out of date, but not ten years or not in E. Yorks anyway - the process for getting a reg number did not change when the SVA came in, it just meant that some things got checked twice by different people, the Police came round and then the same things got checked at the SVA - Pointless but there you go.
I haven't been through the process in recent years, but I know plenty that have and also a few have tried "Rover V8 engined Sierra" route and still ended up on a Q plate. In this area avoiding the Q plate (even on imports !) is almost impossible which is simply the point I was trying to make.
Maybe My info was a bit out of date, but not ten years or not in E. Yorks anyway - the process for getting a reg number did not change when the SVA came in, it just meant that some things got checked twice by different people, the Police came round and then the same things got checked at the SVA - Pointless but there you go.
I haven't been through the process in recent years, but I know plenty that have and also a few have tried "Rover V8 engined Sierra" route and still ended up on a Q plate. In this area avoiding the Q plate (even on imports !) is almost impossible which is simply the point I was trying to make.
Dave Dax builder said:
Tell me what you are building Mattstead and where the 6 items on the list have come from and I'll tell you what to do.
OK, thanks everyone for the info so far,The car is an auto speciali, Venom (dodge viper replica formerly by fiero factory)
Chassis / body shell: Auto Speciali
Axles: Granada donor (hubs, stub axles and driveshafts)
Transmission: Vaux' Monaro donor (gearbox) - Granada donor (Diff)
Steering: Granada Donor
Engine: Vaux' Monaro
Suspension: Auto Speciali
The Granada is a 1993 car, The monaro is is a 2004. The reg I want to put on is older than 1993 so a '93 age related plate is fine.
Any more advice greatly apprieciated.
Thanks.
B@man. See Avocet's post . RE. "Challenge it" Many of the staff at local DVLA offices do not know the rules. The rules nowadays are posted on the .gov.uk websites so if there is a problem all you have to do is print it off and take it with you.
mattstead. There you have it. You have the axles and the steering from the Sierra donor. You deffinately qualify for an age related plate.
You might find that your 2004 engine will have to pass current emission standards though (Didn't know if you were aware of that). You might be able to pull the wool over the DVLA's eyes but the SVA inspectors are much more knowledgeable when it comes to recognising car parts and that VX Monaro motor looks nothing like one ever fitted to a Sierra.
The best of luck.
mattstead. There you have it. You have the axles and the steering from the Sierra donor. You deffinately qualify for an age related plate.
You might find that your 2004 engine will have to pass current emission standards though (Didn't know if you were aware of that). You might be able to pull the wool over the DVLA's eyes but the SVA inspectors are much more knowledgeable when it comes to recognising car parts and that VX Monaro motor looks nothing like one ever fitted to a Sierra.
The best of luck.
Edited by Dave Dax builder on Thursday 2nd August 23:11
Dave Dax builder said:
You might be able to pull the wool over the DVLA's eyes but the SVA inspectors are much more knowledgeable when it comes to recognising car parts and that VX Monaro motor looks nothing like one ever fitted to a Sierra.
The best of luck.
what about if the Monaro engine was accidentally switched for a sierra engine, just around the time it was going for registration and SVA'ing, then mysteriously switched back to the Monaro engine shortly after? What declarations would be required and would any re-inspection be needed, or would it just have the log book changed?The best of luck.
Davi said:
what about if the Monaro engine was accidentally switched for a sierra engine, just around the time it was going for registration and SVA'ing, then mysteriously switched back to the Monaro engine shortly after?
Well, as mentioned above you'd possibly need a police inspection to confirm you'd switched to the monaro engine and that it's engine numbers tied up etc, and then just inform the dvla of the engine size change. It certainly wouldn't then put you onto a different reg...but in all honesty the effort of building around a granada engine only to change it isn't worth the effort to me, and as Dave says, I'm fine as I have axles and steering from the granada....I might just need to convince the local DVLA of that.Dave Dax builder said:
There you have it. You have the axles and the steering from the Sierra donor. You deffinately qualify for an age related plate.
You might find that your 2004 engine will have to pass current emission standards though (Didn't know if you were aware of that).
Thanks for the registration advice once again, I think I'm up so speed on the emissions and am keeping all the original cats and emmision control systems in place.You might find that your 2004 engine will have to pass current emission standards though (Didn't know if you were aware of that).
Cheers.
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