Twin Bike engine Kit car
Discussion
Hi i have been thinking of a kit car for some time and have decided that if i am going to do one it will have a bike engine.
the 2 options i have been thinking of are
Option 1 - Twin Huyabusa engine
Option 2 - Turbocharged Huyabusa.
If i go for 2 engines where can i obtain atransmition to combine the output of both engines.
I can not afford to go for a turn key solution from zcars but the car looks brutal.
If i can not go for a twin engine or turbo huyabusa my reserve option is a impreza based Mutura with 450Bhp
Thoughts and advice appriciated
the 2 options i have been thinking of are
Option 1 - Twin Huyabusa engine
Option 2 - Turbocharged Huyabusa.
If i go for 2 engines where can i obtain atransmition to combine the output of both engines.
I can not afford to go for a turn key solution from zcars but the car looks brutal.
If i can not go for a twin engine or turbo huyabusa my reserve option is a impreza based Mutura with 450Bhp
Thoughts and advice appriciated
on a side note.. is it not the case that having two engines in use on public roads is illegal?
- I seem to remember chatting to a bloke with a twin vw engined mk2 golf about it.. and i seem to remeber him having to 'lock off' the second engine when on the road?.. although you know how these locks have a habit off falling off sometimes?
- I seem to remember chatting to a bloke with a twin vw engined mk2 golf about it.. and i seem to remeber him having to 'lock off' the second engine when on the road?.. although you know how these locks have a habit off falling off sometimes?
Is there any reason why you should choose the complexity of twin engines, or do just like a challenge?
There are plenty of very fast kit cars avialble without the need for two engines.
What's the budget, and how much of the work are you wanting to do yourself?
There's many a BEC road car available and do get Chris from Z cars to take you out in the Mini Monte Carlo - that's a great weekend blast!
There are plenty of very fast kit cars avialble without the need for two engines.
What's the budget, and how much of the work are you wanting to do yourself?
There's many a BEC road car available and do get Chris from Z cars to take you out in the Mini Monte Carlo - that's a great weekend blast!
Tiger / Z Cars did two car types, the first with two ZX9 engines driving the rear wheels through a transfer box, the second was 4WD with one ZX12 engine driving the front wheels, the second engine driving the rears.
Either option is going to cost you loads though, the 4WD car needed nearly £10k of Motec ECU to manage the engines to allow it to corner even half reasonably. The former had a transfer box that cost around £3k to buy and needed a lot of additional development by the owners to keep it in one piece.
A friend of mine built a RWD twin ZX9 Westfield using the Z Cars transfer box and reckons the conversion cost him around £10-12k, and that was not including the cost of the car itself, a Westfield he already owned.
If you can find one you'd be MUCH better off buying a ready completed car which sell for little more than an equivalent spec single engine's car and will (hopefully) have most of the bugs ironed out, but in reality a twin ZX9 car isn't a whole lot quicker than a stock busa BEC.
If you want bonkers performance then I'd look at forced induction on a single busa, as you can get 300bhp fairly reliably and it will be quicker than a twin with the same power as it will be a lot lighter, and I suspect a lot more reliable too. Even so don't take the Holeshot pricelist too seriously as you can pretty much double the £3-4k price tag if you want something reliable and suitable for extended track driving in a car.
Chris
Either option is going to cost you loads though, the 4WD car needed nearly £10k of Motec ECU to manage the engines to allow it to corner even half reasonably. The former had a transfer box that cost around £3k to buy and needed a lot of additional development by the owners to keep it in one piece.
A friend of mine built a RWD twin ZX9 Westfield using the Z Cars transfer box and reckons the conversion cost him around £10-12k, and that was not including the cost of the car itself, a Westfield he already owned.
If you can find one you'd be MUCH better off buying a ready completed car which sell for little more than an equivalent spec single engine's car and will (hopefully) have most of the bugs ironed out, but in reality a twin ZX9 car isn't a whole lot quicker than a stock busa BEC.
If you want bonkers performance then I'd look at forced induction on a single busa, as you can get 300bhp fairly reliably and it will be quicker than a twin with the same power as it will be a lot lighter, and I suspect a lot more reliable too. Even so don't take the Holeshot pricelist too seriously as you can pretty much double the £3-4k price tag if you want something reliable and suitable for extended track driving in a car.
Chris
Have you ever been in a properly sorted R1 or Hayabusa powered kitcar??
Have you ever done 4 or 5 laps solid in one with a proper driver? If you have, and think a)thats a bit SOFT, b) not felt sick or c) I need MORE power then I will shake your hand! If drag racing is your thing, or Pub bragging rights, then the more engines / bigger turbo the better, but if you want a mental road car or trackday toy then you do not need more than 150-200bhp for a balanced, superb handling 500kg car that will WASTE litterally most things on track, look to one (sorted) engine. You can have too much of a good thing, thats for sure. A few of my mates race in the RGB championship and their cars a so fast, so well balanced, that apart from straight line drag racing I cannot see any point in the complexity of two engines. Certainly not in anything 7 shaped with no proper downforce and the aero of an arm chair. Remember, its all about power-to-weight and balance. Less is sometimes A LOT more.....:-)
Lee, collecting my R1 Phoenix this Friday...........
Have you ever done 4 or 5 laps solid in one with a proper driver? If you have, and think a)thats a bit SOFT, b) not felt sick or c) I need MORE power then I will shake your hand! If drag racing is your thing, or Pub bragging rights, then the more engines / bigger turbo the better, but if you want a mental road car or trackday toy then you do not need more than 150-200bhp for a balanced, superb handling 500kg car that will WASTE litterally most things on track, look to one (sorted) engine. You can have too much of a good thing, thats for sure. A few of my mates race in the RGB championship and their cars a so fast, so well balanced, that apart from straight line drag racing I cannot see any point in the complexity of two engines. Certainly not in anything 7 shaped with no proper downforce and the aero of an arm chair. Remember, its all about power-to-weight and balance. Less is sometimes A LOT more.....:-)
Lee, collecting my R1 Phoenix this Friday...........
Paul Drawmer said:
Is there any reason why you should choose the complexity of twin engines, or do just like a challenge?
There are plenty of very fast kit cars avialble without the need for two engines.
What's the budget, and how much of the work are you wanting to do yourself?
There's many a BEC road car available and do get Chris from Z cars to take you out in the Mini Monte Carlo - that's a great weekend blast!
Probably a bit of a challenge but just to be a bit different really. There are plenty of very fast kit cars avialble without the need for two engines.
What's the budget, and how much of the work are you wanting to do yourself?
There's many a BEC road car available and do get Chris from Z cars to take you out in the Mini Monte Carlo - that's a great weekend blast!
My original Choice was a Mutura so the cost would be around £20k all in with me doing all of the building. A smashed up Impreza STi would cost me that much as i would import one in from Japan, and i know enough about them after owning one how to ring the power out of a Impreza. But i wanted something a bit more Pure. Where the driver was the key no any onboard trickery etc.
Furyblade_Lee said:
Have you ever been in a properly sorted R1 or Hayabusa powered kitcar??
Have you ever done 4 or 5 laps solid in one with a proper driver? If you have, and think a)thats a bit SOFT, b) not felt sick or c) I need MORE power then I will shake your hand! If drag racing is your thing, or Pub bragging rights, then the more engines / bigger turbo the better, but if you want a mental road car or trackday toy then you do not need more than 150-200bhp for a balanced, superb handling 500kg car that will WASTE litterally most things on track, look to one (sorted) engine. You can have too much of a good thing, thats for sure. A few of my mates race in the RGB championship and their cars a so fast, so well balanced, that apart from straight line drag racing I cannot see any point in the complexity of two engines. Certainly not in anything 7 shaped with no proper downforce and the aero of an arm chair. Remember, its all about power-to-weight and balance. Less is sometimes A LOT more.....:-)
Lee, collecting my R1 Phoenix this Friday...........
I wouldnt mind doing a bit of both track driving and drag racing to be honest. Have you ever done 4 or 5 laps solid in one with a proper driver? If you have, and think a)thats a bit SOFT, b) not felt sick or c) I need MORE power then I will shake your hand! If drag racing is your thing, or Pub bragging rights, then the more engines / bigger turbo the better, but if you want a mental road car or trackday toy then you do not need more than 150-200bhp for a balanced, superb handling 500kg car that will WASTE litterally most things on track, look to one (sorted) engine. You can have too much of a good thing, thats for sure. A few of my mates race in the RGB championship and their cars a so fast, so well balanced, that apart from straight line drag racing I cannot see any point in the complexity of two engines. Certainly not in anything 7 shaped with no proper downforce and the aero of an arm chair. Remember, its all about power-to-weight and balance. Less is sometimes A LOT more.....:-)
Lee, collecting my R1 Phoenix this Friday...........
Thanks for the comments at the moment i am just thinking and i want to make the right choice for what i want so i am bouncing ideas.
I have not been out in a 7 type car for a long time. But would like to before i do put down a deposit on a kit, u offering?
Edited by stevieb on Sunday 2nd September 22:27
Edited by stevieb on Sunday 2nd September 22:28
Yep, agree with Lee's sentiments 100%. Although I mentioned the turbo busa as the better route to take, its the better option of the two but not necessarily something I'd recommend. Another good mate of mine has gone down this avenue turbocharging his Megabusa and although its undoubtedly quicker, it too has had a lot of teething gremlins and needed a lot of problems engineering out meaning he's missed about a year of trackdays doing the conversion and regularly says that he wished he hadnt bothered and had just got on and enjoyed driving it as standard.
Edited by LocoBlade on Sunday 2nd September 22:36
Just to second/third what has been said already, 2 engines can be made to work, but really isn't worth the bother. A single turbo'd engine will be much simpler and just as quick, if not quicker. But still expensive. Someone I know had/has a turbo'd bird engien and it owned him over £7k, plus the original engine. It is awesomely quick though.
It's also illegal to have one engine driving the front and one the back unless both engines run through a transfer box, which make sit all a bit pointless really. You can however, and I've never understood why, have 2 engines, with one running each rear wheel!
It's also illegal to have one engine driving the front and one the back unless both engines run through a transfer box, which make sit all a bit pointless really. You can however, and I've never understood why, have 2 engines, with one running each rear wheel!
V8OWNER said:
on a side note.. is it not the case that having two engines in use on public roads is illegal?
No, the designer of the Furore (http://www.furorecars.co.uk/pics.php) has an F1 style road car with two ZX10 bike engines, each one driving a separate rear wheel with no mechanical linkage between the wheels other than tyres and road. It passed SVA ok.Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff